gerald m

fixed things up ,, tinkered a little more with things and now have an idle of 1200 @ 26 hg of vacuum @ running temp ,, clutch engages around 32 - 3300 rpm's so that leaves 4000 rpm or so to use There again I need something for a tack that will show it's variables at the end of the run . the only good a ordinary one like I have is good for , is setting the idle and doing adjustments on the stand . IMO I really don't need one just another thing to look at . I'm really not going to back off on the throttle anyway just because the rpm's are up around 7 -8000 maybe one with a stutter on it would be ok to keep me from going to high .

gerald m

Just a few pics until I get the video sorted out . these were the last two races .. there was no modified trophy this year . so I just went up against the winners of the stock bike events . always winning with 3 lengths or so ahead of the rest . wasn't very fair to the rest of the guys so I just raced and had a good time . Video will be up right away .. please excuse me for the poor footage very hard to do out in the open . thanks to my chum Brian Spigott and Randy Ripka for all the help and support and of course bumpstart for all the tec help and support . Have a good one

gerald m

Again sorry for the poor footage ,I do have more shots and will try to put some more together . this gives you some kind of an idea of what the Dragon is capable of .. Wide band time . really didn't have much time to check things over before the races , still haven't checked the 5-6 ports to see if they are working with 2 pounds boost or over . lost one rotor when halfway down the track but still coasted in ahead ( it was a slow bike ) . quick change of plugs and away we went for the second go around . Thanks again bumpstart for all the knowledge and technical support from half a world away WE DID IT AGAIN !!

bumpstart

awesome work gerald. awesome choice of red head too !

gerald m

She is s real peach real red head too. .. Flaged a bit Friday night for the midnight races .partied all night worked all day sat. And won the wet tea shirt contest sat. Night .. Wish I was just 1 year younger lol.. Wideband time I guess need to do some thinking there and also how far this build is going to run regardless how far it goes we still need the wide band. I going to see if I can find a set of pavement tires and see if he is capable of in a bit of pavement . When I discovered the bike is capable of wheelies a whole new set of thoughts came floating in .. The races I think were a good stress test and everything seems fine . Especially after the wastegate deal . Impossible to explain the feeling when running the Dragon . Keep in mind I start hard wot to get the drive slapped in tight build some momentum and then back off to to a bit over half throttle . I'd I went wot all the way by the feel it would start to lunge and then probably launch but on pavement it would be a whole new game . Can't explain just know the little engine isn't even producing yet Any thoughts ?? In for a dollar in for a dime . I hope the poor video was clear enough so you know what I mean .

bumpstart

you will need to build it to launch softer on the tarmac
if you can get it to keep straight and build in a wheelie bar
and design some slip in the wheel off the line to save the belt
..then it is a contender to push to the limits of the easy bracket before you need chutes and a lot more safety gear

it will be all about the sizing of the rear wheel and the ultimate gearing to make it to the end of the powerband as you cross the line

you will need to check how close you already are to the bracket regulations and look into the extra costs involved in the all out brackets
( stuff like safety suits etc are not cheap.. and then there is medicals etc )


hmm

maybe take it on tour on tow with the rx3 wagon and clean up at all the regional US grass drags?

please build in an airfilter !! LOL

gerald m

hmm

maybe take it on tour on tow with the rx3 wagon and clean up at all the regional US grass drags?

please build in an airfilter !! LOL[/QUOTE]

Airfilter Man there is 4 layers of the finest women's nylon stockings money can buy on that snorkel ..: The Dragon is dresses in better attire than a 100 dollar hooker laugh:

You really want to see that little wagon on the road don't you ?? Well me thinks it would be a great little addition to most anyone's family but I also think it would be a long road doing the little dude so it was respectable . but yes it would be perfect to tow the Dragon with .. Hummm and it is all there , but it would need some extra mid range power so it wouldn't have to work to pull it . Hummm.. If I just knew where I could source all the parts in one place .. But it would need to stay physically stock . some dude from the US wanted him a while back , he must have seen it on the forum pictures .

gerald m

Been in touch with the local SIR Saskatoon International Raceway People . They explained to me that motorcycles with any car engine cannot be ran on a NHRA sanctioned track . They did however apply for the proper paper work to petition the board and try to get the dragon included in some type of class . what they told me was .

((( Thank you for your interest in running your bike at SIR. I looked at the video and it is quite a nice piece of engineering. SIR is an NHRA sanctioned race track and we follow their rule book. Unfortunately there is not a provision in the rule book for your bike, ET motorcycle requires the engines to be manufactured specifically for motorcycle use and automobile engines are prohibited. I am told that you can petition NHRA to see if you can run the bike at NHRA tracks, but it is a lengthy, involved procedure and you may still get turned down. Drag racing was built on ingenuity and engineering, which you surely have for sure, it is sad but we would have say no to the bike. If you want, I could try to get the information for you to petition NHRA, to see if they would accept the bike. Let me know ))

Dean Eichhorn AHC
SIR Technical Dept.

So I have requested the paper work and am dam sure going to pursue this , Rule Books like every thing else need to be updated from time to time like everything else in life ,, It's not like My type of machine has been banned or anything they just don't have a place for him .

The Andersonville North video has been sent out to all staff at SIR by this Dean and they say that they think I'm crazy for building and riding it and your crazy bumpstart for helping me engineer it . NO JUST KIDDING they have all made it very clear ( some of thee guys of course have been involved in drag racing for many years ) and not one of them has ever seen a machine like the Dragon . they went on to say that if the NHRA would change their rules they would welcome him to their track . So that is it for now I guess .

I will be looking for a wideband for the bike that needs to be done no matter what happens . I started him up again today just for kicks , it runs so nice now . when I first start him he runs fairly smooth but evens out a it warms up , the exhaust is cool for a while then it starts to spit a little water from the exhaust then when it warms up it settles right down to an even steady idle ..

Never no boss If they wont let me race we might end up with a 325 hp propane burning RX3 Rotary wagon ...

Dave Schaffel north west teck consultant sent me this . don't be afraid to send him a note encouraging him to help get the bike entered in one of their rule books ,,, I'm sure the more the merrier .

If you want to pursue having the rules amended to include your motorcycle into one of our rulebooks I would suggest you contact our Exhibition Rules Committee. The chairman of the Exhibition Rules Committee is Bob Lang and he is located on the US east coast.
His email address is BLang@nhra.com.

Bob is also our National Director of Event Safety and is in charge of the NHRA Safety Safari so he is a pretty busy guy. If he doesn't get back to you right away it will be because of his schedule and work load but he will respond at some point. Be sure to include all the details regarding your motorcycle when you send your request to him.

Sincerely,
Dave Schaffel

DSchaffel@nhra.com
NHRA Northwest Division
Tech Consultant
Phone- 306-374-3685
Div6_Northwest-4c

More racer information…. NHRARacer.com or NHRA Northwest Division web site

Join NHRA… become a member

I know a guy from New Zealand his name is Dave Whitham ,, Calls himself JAFFA running a 500 HP rotary powered bike cant remember his time but he was running 168 MPH @ 8.8 but don't know who does the rules there , He ran a 2 speed slush box off the front of the cross mount engine . chatted with him many times ,, very nice guy ..

bumpstart

wow.. over here in WA there is / was a supercharged rotary bike run by the guys from south yunderup wreckers

ANDRA is our governing body and i dont think they have read that part of the NHRA rule book !!

i havent been down to the track for 5 years or so
but someone from there did contact me for a yarn about beefing the ignition for it a few years ago so i think they may still be at it somewhere

PS .. we also had one at the grass drags here,, as a trike
.. with a 13b with a superchager made from the compressor from a switzer turbo from some aircraft
it ran power through a subaru auto


PSS.. on the rx3 we can run an extra converter and a much bigger turbo.........

bumpstart

well. thinks they may have a hard time knocking this one back-

Barbarian V8 Motorcycles


i guess we are crazy here

gerald m

Not hard to get a nice propane tank for them either . mixer would need to be bigger .

The problem it seems with the auto trans is most need to turn the opposite way when mated to a cross mount rotary engine that is why Steve drives his from the front of the little guy then it get turn around *** back and will work very nice , he had a WIDE sheeve made that handles the 6 inch or so cog belt
I am going to mail these people tonight , I was told to give them a good detailed description of the dragon , that might take a bit of doing , heck I can hardly remember some of the things that has been done to him , that will take a bit of thinking to get things accurate if it goes into a rule book . Maybe I could just send links to 53 videos .

BTW just found out couple days ago that the last bike I raced in the last video at Andersonville pulled a valve ., don't think it did much damage just needs parts . so that's 2 harleys hurt them selves chasing me

bumpstart

current 200 or 225 mixer will still do..
they match flow with most 300's and are mechanically simpler than the 425
and work better under boost and with more inbuilt mechanical strength than both of them

you have to raise the original flow rating to almost double when you consider it has 15 psi boost blowing into it

the smallish mixer also brings much better driveabilty
and ultimately mixture control if you know what you are doing with tweaks

yes .. the impco mixers bring pressure drop losses ..
but if you do things right
( ie..use bar plate intercooler or just water injection )

.. then it will be no more pressure drop losses than some who have chosen oversized tube fin intercoolers
and you will feel the restriction only in NA mode if compared directly to a petrol efi equivalent

many where i am chose to go for the more weber like ( in operation ) GR brand LPG mixer
which ultimately at WOT have less losses
.. but at cost of more complicated and protracted setup , need modification to suit boosting them
and likely less finite control of partial throttle mixtures

gerald m

I have been in touch with the NHRA and have requested they include my bike type in there national rule book . Not that I expect everything to just fall in place but I do have positive feedback from the local SIR track .
Had the Dragon on a short piece of pavement and for sure it will need a wider smooth tire and a wheelie bar if we go this route . also have been shopping for a wide band and I think i will go with the 4th gen set up then we can add pretty much anything we want , the complete set up is around $300 and about $100 to $150 for every package after . Below is what I sent to the NHRA BoB Lang;s response is highlighted in color at the bottom

On Sep 24, 2014, at 0:56, "Gerald Mosier" <geraldmidwestfoam@yahoo.ca<mailto:geraldmidwestfo am@yahoo.ca>> wrote:

I have been a motorcycle enthusiast for over 40 years . in this time I have owned many of the (( off the shelf )) motorcycles available on the open market . 4 years ago I started a project called Dragons' Breath a totally self built motorcycle with a underslung frame powered by a 1986 Mazda 13b RX7 rotary engine .
The bike was built for sand and grass drags and has won the modified class trophy for the 3 years that it has been competing . This is a true modified bike in it's own class and still has not been tuned to it's maximum potential .
I approached SIR == SASKATCHEWAN INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY about running the Dragon on the tarmac and was replied to by a Dave Schaffel Teck consultant for SIR . and this is what he had to say

Dean Eichhorn AHC

Shawn Zezula
Sep 11
Thank you for your interest in running your bike at SIR. I looked at the video and it is quite a nice piece of engineering. SIR is an NHRA sanctioned race track and we follow their rule book. Unfortunately there is not a provision in the rule book for your bike, ET motorcycle requires the engines to be manufactured specifically for motorcycle use and automobile engines are prohibited. I am told that you can petition NHRA to see if you can run the bike at NHRA tracks, but it is a lengthy, involved procedure and you may still get turned down. Drag racing was built on ingenuity and engineering, which you surely have for sure, it is sad but we would have say no to the bike. If you want, I could try to get the information for you to petition NHRA, to see if they would accept the bike. Let me know

Dean Eichhorn AHC
SIR Technical Dept.

Of course rule books are very necessary in our society as a whole however in our ever changing world I think we all agree that even rule books need to be upgraded from time to time to ., not so much to change existing rules but maybe making new ones .
I know you and your committee are very busy but please let me tell you about the Dragon and all the components that I have imported from around the world to build this bike.

We will start at the front and frame and work our way back ... the TRAC Front end is from the well known Honda Saber frame is a underslung type of my own design and is supported in the middle buy the engine being bolted to the frame making it a one piece unit (( no rubber motor mounts , )) Ignition is single fire direct fire . using the first gen Mazda RX7 dist. with a boost retard function , the dist. is used for the pickup signal only and is triggered by 4 pin GM. modules connected to the coils with the coil wires connected directly to the spark plugs creating in the neighborhood of 75,000 volts . .
The bike carries on board 12 L of 104 octane liquid propane ( (and should be comfortable to do a single 1/4 mile run including warm up and still return to the pit )) in two vessels each tested to 3000 lbs although the proper valve that is in place relievs pressure at 315 pounds Regulator and mixer are all new IMPCO the regulator has a built in propane shut off if engine dies it will sense no vacuum and shut down propane also there is a incoming electric shut off valve between the propane supply and the regulator , also there is a CP30 PEEL shut down switch that will sense no ignition pulse and shut down propane supply in about 1.5 seconds . there is also a man tether that shuts down propane flow when pulled .
The turbo is a T04E divided 1.15 AR hot side and 60 a AR cold side.. All exhaust and waste gate piping is 3/16 stainless steel with adjustable waste gate from 3 to 24 pounds boost and has a cross in the end of the exhauxt exit to stop any debris flying into the crowd in case of catastrophic failure . . The bike will be fitted with a Blow Off Valve by the spring of 2015 and also a fiberglass housing to cover moving parts and streamline a bit .
The lower rear saddle tanks are for my low pressure (( No Pump )) water methanol injection that is totally ran and controlled by boost pressures via adjustable pressure switches .
The bike supports a smaller size automotive battery secure with a metal hold down strap across the top of the battery and bolted to the frame . the final 0 ring drive chain needs a better chain guard and will have by spring of 2015 . Radiator is all aluminum construction rubber mounted on frame behind front wheel . IN my opinion this machine should be ran with some type of wheelie bar assembly . Bike will be fitted with good quality tires probably slick on rear
bike will be equipped with right and left hand brake controls left control front and right control rear .
The bike is a smaller package weighing in with rider (( myself )) at just over 700 pounds the little engine is producing 325 HP @ 7000 rpm's giving it a weight ratio of 2.15 pounds to 1 hp. The engine I might add is a conservative build at 325 hp. and is capable of producing well over 800 hp. The throttle is of the thumb lever design with a double back up spring return .
The Dragon is a very unique machine very stable supports a 48 degree front rake and attracts a crowd where ever we go and i believe it deserves a place in the NHRA rule books . If you require or would just like to know more about the Dragon please feel free to ask I can tell you anything you may need to know about any piece on the bike . Sincerely Gerald c. Mosier . Call 1-306-867-4370 or email geraldmidwestfoam@yahoo.ca

Thank you I will ask the technical committee to review your request.


Bob Lang

gerald m

Ordered the PLX 4th gen with the dm6 gauge should be here in a few days . I will make room for a couple more components if I decide to go with exhaust temp or what ever won;t be doing to much to the dragon this winter just a complete rewire job and maybe relocate a couple of pieces . Hummm I said that last year didn't I.

Maybe for some interest we could do the little rx3 engine , possibly we could come up with some good ways to increase the power from the little dude with out compromising reliability . Also I am closing in on making a deal on the little rotary truck I mentioned earlier . Have a good one

bumpstart

thanks for the updates gerald.. it is quiet a package.
hopes the NHRA guy sees the value in a crowd teaser and lets you find a niche

maybe you can suggest trainer wheels and then run against the cars

be prepared for a medical and the expense of a safety suit !

rx3 12a TD engine is a beaut
.. the first SD engines where nobbled in some degree and that last dirty 12a TD matched the power of the first 13b

needs only a further mild port and maybe some exhaust porting
with some custom pipes and a few carb tricks

and maybe convert the dizzies to hidden electronic HEI for the reliability factor

bumpstart

oh

you may wish to mention next time they get back to you
that the HP is limited to around 325 bhp by your fuel system
so that you cant dial up the boost for 800 hp when feeling brave



and PS


( little secret trick i forgot to mention )

.. not sure if you hooked up both vac pots on your dizzy but you only need to hookup the one that pushes around the pickup you are using

save the other vac pot for later ( cap it )
as for higher boosts we can always jump the ignitors to the other pickup ( and pot )
( and reset and fine tune the base timing now also using the push pull feature on that trailing pot )

and this allows us a fraction more vac advance and further boost retard

bumpstart

just did the math
and at your current max potential you still have better power to weight than a ( $50k aus ) Ducati 1199
which works out at 2.47 pounds per bhp

which is going to put you sub 10's if all goes well and you make it to the other end


should i mention that the Italian bike doesn't include the rider in its sums
and that gives you a little more of an edge

and so if you wish to maintain the advantage then you need to eat more salad !

gerald m

MEDICAL HEY hope the doc has short skinny fingers The suit I have no problem with and a spidy man suit for sure .. I am probably just banging my head against the wall trying to deal with a organization like NHRA . There biggest problem is that the bike has a car engine , not sure if they even realize that there were bikes produced with the true wankle engine ..

yea they wanted a number so I gave them 325 hp because I do intend to get it there but your right I never should have mentioned the true potential of the little engines . I will get the wideband mounted and rewire the whole bitchin thing again for the 4th time .

Hey I beat the hell out of some special racing ducati ,, 3-4 lengths in 200 ft. at Andersonville . He did give it a good go till he turtled it turning around at the end off the track ,broke his plastic **** and then got all pissy because it is so expensive to fix actually he is in one of the video runs the red bike on the left and Me on the right he was crying about the exhaust to but he insisted he run in the left lane ( i think he thought the left lane was better but it is actually a tad rougher than the right )

Yea I think when things settle down this fall I will give the 12a a going over .. I know this guy in Australia who seems to know quite a bit about them and he seems to have a good source off parts also, maybe I can do a little business with him .

Yes I only have the one vacuum pot hooked up .. Save the other vacuum pot for later .. hummm ok out with it what have you got hidden up your sleeve now boss .. Is that for when we go two reg's bigger tanks and make another 100 horse ??? huh is it ??

bumpstart

yes, the next 50 is there with this turbo and setup with just boost. a couple of tees and another reg


but it may require an analog CD MSD for ignition
( hopefully one with the tuneable curves )
and the step up to a 60-1 ( or better ) turbo for the next hundred and beyond

reworking your math , using the 325 bhp and taking out 200 pounds for rider and his gear

then you are closer to a wet 1.5 pounds / bhp

given the correct final gearing to the end of the run then this is likely to push you closer to a 9 without needing to change ( yet ) the setup

gerald m

I also need to reweigh , the bike took on a few ponds last winter , but if by some miracle they find a place for me in the rule books so I can run 1/4 mile the sky is the limit what ever it takes to make it competitive ,.

Turbos really aren't that much money for the bang they give I'm not afraid of buying another one . same with the regulator I thought it was reasonable . In case you haven't noticed no matter how nice things turn out I always want a little more . so if we end up racing be prepared for the want of more , for now it has all it can handle until I hear from the NHRA .

don't be afraid to send them a mail BLang@nhra.com. there are around 35,000 hit on this thread if 1/10 of the people sent Bob a nice little mail encouraging them to deal with this I bet they would .

gerald m

The PLX combo gauge and AFR kit came today . I' m thinking about one more module and me thinks the Exhaust Gas temp module might be the most important , I think that would be nice to be able to read .. any suggestions from anyone ?? \\ ONLY ONE BOSS // not mounting anything now waiting to see if I need to alter anything for the track .
I think this winter I get WILL to make me a different exhaust pipe from wastegate out and then mount the modules and weld in plugs .

bumpstart

for LPG tuning absolutely you want AFR and exhaust temp

exhaust temp will also give feedback on the the work done by the volumes of water/ alcohol injection

the only suggestion is when you get the K couple. open up the socket that plugs into the PLX
in there is 2 bare K couple wires tucked under the screws for the socket pins

they are prone to twisting up here ( shorting ) on install
try to work the twists out of the cable before you plug it in to avoid this
and it pays to slip a little bit of heatshrink over the exposed bit of one of the wires to prevent them touching inside the connector
( it wont hurt to short them but it will make the gauge read a zero )

bumpstart

you want the K couple to be placed pre turbo and the best way to do this is to find a nut that threads the same



drill the manifold in a spot you think you get equal flow and weld the nut onto the exterior of the exhaust manifold

if clever you only predrill to the tap size and will find a tap and run it through the nut and into the manifold
( for strength of fitment and avoid the nut cracking off )

this will allow the K couple tip to not protrude too far into the exhaust stream

PS

the nut also allows you to remove the K couple at will and bung it without protrusions
( provided the nut material is compatible to the stainless of the K couple and you lubed the thread )

gerald m

I figgured they needed to work together for fine settings . I order it up tonight just so its here when I'm ready .. Btw you never told me enat kinda mystery you ha e in mind for the secondary vacuum advance . I was just thinking maybe we should have a vacuum . Boost gauge module so we can tell for sure what Iis going on st the at the waste gate . Don't want to blow the little dude up now . I can bench set the waste gate easy but that don't tell me what happens on the bike . I think we should but if it is s waste just say so .

bumpstart

well it will record things as a small trend that you can see the profile of how the boost control is working

eventually the boost/vac gauge, EGT and the AFR can all be integrated and logged realtime while on a dyno from a cable
( imfd to pc link = $70 )

or wirelessly at 10 hertz to your phone using the add in kiwi2 imfd adapter ( $50 )
coupled to either the kiwi2 blue tooth ( $60 ) or kiwi 2 wifi dongle ( $60 )
[ phone type depending]


when you get that far you will find the boost/ vac gauge combo is most important
as it will help define what load you are at to your temp and AFR results
( as the dm6 lacks the rpm logger and the dm100/200 take rpm from an OBD2 port )

the three together will draw a picture of your run and allow you to zero down individual holes in the tune


all of these can be displayed individually one at a time in one or as many dm5 or dm6 gauges as you add in
and you can set a single or even double flagged threshold warning for when some of the parameters have exceeded a flag setpoint

i.e
it can alarm you if exhaust temps go offscale and or if AFR and boost both exceed the flag etc
if you have the AFR or other or trend screen in view