skaraider

ok, so im having troubles getting the car started... here is what i have done today....
bought a new battery cause the old one was crap.. checked for spark from the coil then took the plugs out and brought the plugs out.. good spark from there, pulled the the fuel pump out cleaned the fuel tank and checked for the start of the pump it works.. so i put everything back together now crank it up.. and nothing.. sprayed some starting fluid into the throttle body and obvious the spark was there cause it back fired on us but it never started just shot a fireball back in our face...

so the problem is.. that its not starting.. i bought the car from a guy yesterday said it ran when we parked it went out of town for 10 days and came back and the c ar was dead.. any ideas?

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Some vehicle info would be helpful. If it's a fuel injected RX-7, my first guess would be it's flooded. If it's flooded, spraying starting fluid into the intake will just make it worse.

skaraider

oh yeah my bad its a 1987 rx7 N/A... ok so i did some deflooding stuff from what i read out of the book.. and i now i have white smoke coming out of the back which is better than what I have had all day... the injectors are working because the fuel is coming out of where the plugs are suppose to be as a mist like it should be, which means the injectors are workings, the plugs are working, took the cover off of the crank position sensor and its spinning as I try to crank it...

Also i know the car has sat for some time thats the reason why i cleaned the fuel tank out and readded the oil.

So heres the question maybe its just really really flooded?? or something else

alwayswantrx7

iTrader: (1)

Just because you have spark and gas doesn't mean you have the ability to run. If your car has been sitting for so long i would suggest a fuel filter. If timing is incorrect you can have spark and gas with no combustion. I would reset your timing identical to the "manual's" specs. Sitting for a long period of time can do more than the naked eye can survey damage-wise. (Vacuum lines and such)

skaraider

very true.. but im not to sure on how to set the timing. it seems like its just gonna take some cleaning also found a leak in a fuel line i fixed that and the fuel filter is flowing really good. um its getting better just not starting.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Post #99 https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/86-tii-swap-wont-start-but-really-wants-887302/page4/

skaraider

u are a god amongst gods.. ill check it in the morning thanks

im not really understanding what it says about the pulley mark.. and the other tooth in the sensor should be over the black things?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Pictures are worth a thousand words. The main pulley has two notches in it. One notch is yellow and the second notch is red. The yellow notch is associated with the leading timing. You rotate the main pulley clockwise ( standing in front of the engine and the pulley is turned to the left). Turn it until the metal pin sticking out of the front cover is perfectly in line with the yellow mark (the alternator pulley bolt can be turned with a socket or wrench to turn the main pulley). Then remove the top cover to the CAS and check to see if the v shaped cog is cutting across the edges of the reluctors which are the black cube shaped components. If it does then the timing is essentially correct. If it is not then loosen the bolt that holds the CAS in position and pull it out and align the two marks at the bottom and then slide it back in and tighten down the bolt. There are posts further down in that particular thread which shows more info.

skaraider

well from the time i typed that and said id do it in the morning, i decided to get a flash light and do it tonight so i pretty much figured it out after looking at it, so thanks um the timing is good... so let me run over the check list of things that are correct.

Spark plugs.. . Check
Wires... Check..
Coil packs... Check
Fuel Pump... Check
Fuel Injectors... Check
Fuel Filter... Check
Timing... Check..
MAF... Check
Battery is new Check

and for sure i will check the compression in the morning after i run to the store to grab the spark plugs i ordered... its to cold to go back out tonight....

Any more ideas?? or wait on compression check?

satch

iTrader: (1)

To help build compression long enough to start, some will drop a teaspoon of 2 cycle motor oil in the bottom/leading spark plug holes. Might want to do this after a thorough deflooding. Expect smoke out of the exhaust if the car was flooded and or the oil trick is used.

skaraider

not really sure waht a thorough deflooding would consist off.. i took the plugs out, took the ignition and the fuel injector fuse out and cranked it for about 10 seconds... repeated twice... and let it sit for a few minutes before reinstalling plugs

satch

iTrader: (1)

That's fairly thorough.

skaraider

ok so i got the new plugs today
Took some oil and put down into the bottom two spark plug holes cranked it over for about 4-6 seconds. installed the plugs.. put all the fuses back in and still nothing.. but now i am getting a beep beep beep pause beep beep beep pause.. and so on.. grrr

so i found this in one of your old post satch
1-beep, pause, repeat - in case abnormality of speed sensor signal:
In case broken wires or short circuits occur to sensors or harnesses, the buzzer sounds 60-seconds after the engine speed signal of 2200 rpm continues for 18-seconds.
2-beeps, pause, repeat - in case abnormality of engine speed signal:
The buzzer sounds twice and repeats when the vehicle speed signal is missing input and/or no engine speed signal is found (short circuit, broken wire, etc.)
3-beeps, pause, repeat - in case abnormality of stepping motor signal:
The buzzer sounds when there are broken wires or short circuits in coils or harnesses.
4-beeps, pause, repeat - in case abnormality of the power steering microcomputer:
The buzzer sounds 4 and repeats when there are circuit troubles other than with the micro computer.
5-beeps, pause, repeat - in case abnormality of steering sensor signal: Steering sensor is mis-aligned or failed or steering wheel has been improperly installed.

....................ill check the coils again and see if thats it maybe i hooked em up wrong..
Let me ask you this... The back coils towards the fire wall marked 1 is front and 2 is rear both top.. and the set foward by the battery 1 is front 2 is rear bboth bottom correct?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Correct.

And the car isn't supposed to be turned over w/o the plugs if the oil was added. You lose the affect of the oil trying to build compression if you turn the car over after adding the oil but leaving the plugs off.

The deflooding process does not require oil and sometimes the deflooding process needs to be done repeatedly to be successful. Trying to help build compression on startup does require oil. So these are two different things.

You might want to check the fuel pressure if you happen to have a gauge handy. 30 psi when teed in between the filter and the engine. 40 psi when teed in as stated but vacuum hose removed from FPR. At least 70 psi when fuel line before filter goes directly into the gauge (deadheaded).

skaraider

hmm.. so put the oil in... install plugs let it crank a few times thenn reinstall fuses?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Deflood process, add oil if you think a little more compression is needed as it may not, install plugs, start car up.

skaraider

if it was only that easy ill try gonna let it warm up just a bit more almost froze to death this morning .... maybe ill find a flannel and try that

satch

iTrader: (1)

A colder car is harder to start up. The Water Thermosensor located behind the water pump detects the temp of the coolant at startup and adjusts how much fuel is to be injected upon the startup process. Thus more fuel is injected on a cold start as compared to a warm start which means it's easier to flood the car on a cold start.

skaraider

ok so when i go to try to do this again say around 2pm.... Add oil to lower plug holes then instal plugs and make sure the wires are on the correct one.. and then... install fueses back.. crank the car and hope it starts?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You want to be careful of how much oil you use. Once should be enough if you think the compression needs a bit of help. The only problem with trying to get the car started during a cold start is if it doesn't start then there is more gas which needs to removed as compared to trying to start a deflooded car right after the car has been running which would lead to less fuel to be dealt with because this would be a warm start example thus less fuel is injected at startup.

skaraider

well if this doesn't work then i don't know whaat else to try... ive prob taken the spark plugs out of this car more than 1 person fills up on gas every 4 months

god i still can't figure it out... i do have white smoke coming out of the tail pipes now... im guessing thats a plus.. since its trying to do something..

here are some videos i uploaded maybe this can help


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n36D2EeDRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR9izG7Qu1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBVZ3HWWSzM

satch

iTrader: (1)

Power steering stepping motor is located between the engine fuse box and the engine.

skaraider

alright so your saying if that is out or unplugged it wont let it start?

satch

iTrader: (1)

If it's unplugged that would cause the three beeps but it shouldn't affect whether the car starts or not.

skaraider

grr hmmm alright.... well this sucks still leaves me to my main problem then