hey guys. With all the new power being made on turbo engines and E85, I was just wondering if anyone has pushed an N/A setup with the same fuel, and seen any results? I know an N/A engine is not nearly as susceptible to detonation and heat as with forced induction, but would still think it may allow us to run more aggressive timing and A/F ratios due to the cooler burn.

 

There seems to be a maximum amount of timing that makes power on these engines, which can be safely run on 87.

 

i thought about running E85, it's a 45 minute drive for me to get it though. It would be good since it's cheap and comparable to race gas. We could probably run around 28* timing with E85, but I've heard that injector duty cylce must be increased. Not sure what kind of AFR's you would run.

 

I don't know if it would offer any benifit. I've run advanced alll the way up to 30* BTDC without issue premixinf 100:1 on 87 shell. I actually started to lose power after 27* on my street port. I run 25* on the street daily driver.

 

t I have E85 pretty close maybe 6 miles or so, but I wonder if there is some way to run a dual tune (E85 or 92) on your car so you could run whatever you have easier access to.

 

I think Racing Beat did a little work with E100 on an NA project for Mazda called the Furai.

You could ask RB if the 450hp 3 rotor on Ethanol is better or worse than what they get on gasoline? Or whatever else they will divulge from their experience.

 

Yes, it's called different fuel maps for each fuel, which you'd load through a portable controller.

 

As far as advance is concerned, if you run at least 10 degrees of split, you can keep advancing timing until power falls off and it won't detonate. On the other hand, if you run no split you will find a limit. On 87 octane it is somewhere around 21 degrees or so and by 92 octane it is around 28 degrees or so. Give or take 1 or 2. The point is clear though. With E85 being something like 106 octane, you could theoretically advance it farther. Due to flame speed of E85 combined with it's octane level, merely advancing the timing isn't going to do it. You need an entirely different map based around it. You will also need LOTS more fuel flow!

 

[QUOTE=BLUE TII;9587264]I think Racing Beat did a little work with E100 on an NA project for Mazda called the Furai.

Doesn't the Furai get something like 2.5 miles a gallon. I think I read that in the Top Gear magazine.

 

How exactly would you go about doing this?

 

Weird, we must have some good gas up in Seattle then. I was rnning 2-3* of split when I was doing dyno pulls with 87 RON+MON + premix(which should lower the octane even more) at 30*BTDC and made 187whp as opposed to the same setup at 27* that made 190 literally just enough time to change timming between pulls, what like 5 minutes. I believe ambiant temps were in the low 80's that day. I've never heard it detonate. What could be the cuase off this? Could my timming light be off or the RB pulley mismarked? The pulley only is marked to 20*advance, but I did the math and added the additional marks.

 

For example, an Rtek uses a PDA. Tune for one fuel, save the timing and fuel map, siphon gas out, put in E85, Dyno tune again. Save E85 fuel and timing map. Now you have two maps.

 

Doesn't the Furai get something like 2.5 miles a gallon. I think I read that in the Top Gear magazine.


So about the same as my gasoline turbo 2 rotor when being driven the same way.... Damn, I am jealous of the NAs bieng able to tune so lean

 

Maybe it wasn't enough split for the timing? I run 24* with 3-4* split with 91octane and premix. I had the same issue though, my motor gained hp till around 26-27*, then power started to fall off at 28*. Maybe next time I will try more split.

 

E85 stoich is a lot richer than gasoline's 14.7:1, should you go this route a more powerful fuel pump as well as some stainless lines rather than rubber should be used instead of stock rubber lines, the ethanol is corrosive.