AjaxOfTheRockies

I'm hoping one of the Microtech Gurus here can help me get my '88 TII to the next step. Here're my particulars:

Atkins street port
Racing Beat Turbo Back exhaust
RC Engineering injectors 550/750
Walbro 225 fuel pump
PLX Wideband
Stock intake
Microtech LTX-12

I have read for hours and hours, then tried for many more hours to get the tune right, but just can't hack it. As of now, it starts easily and consistantly. Idle after warm-up is solid at 820 and 14.5 AFR.

Since that is as as far as I can get it, I have decided to turn it over to a pro. Found a dyno shop that has a great reputation and knows tuning on Microtech. Price is a bit steep, but can be in the budget. So, I just want to get it done and drivable.

My problem for the forum is that beyond start and idle, it runs like crap - stumbles on acceleration, no power etc - and I really can't make the 45mile trek to the shop like this.

A friend told me about you guys and the expertise here, so I signed up and made my introductory posts this weekend. I am hoping and would be eternally grateful if someone here can help me get a map into this thing so I can drive it over to the "Pros from Dover".

Here's what it has now (which can also be viewed here: Untitled Document in a nice table format)




Screen 1: Idle
30"hg 1.33
25"hg 1.57
20"hg 1.76
15"hg 2.05
10"hg 2.62
05"hg 3.67
00"hg 4.19
2 psi 4.95
4 psi 4.95
6 psi 4.95
8 psi 4.95
10 psi 4.95
14 psi 4.95
16 psi 4.95
18 psi 4.95
20 psi 4.95


Screen 02: 1000
30"hg 0.95
25"hg 1.24
20"hg 1.62
15"hg 2.24
10"hg 3.05
05"hg 3.95
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.10
6 psi 7.14
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 03: 1500
30"hg 1.38
25"hg 1.43
20"hg 1.71
15"hg 2.52
10"hg 3.43
05"hg 4.05
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.10
6 psi 7.14
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 04: 2000
30"hg 1.48
25"hg 1.48
20"hg 1.71
15"hg 2.05
10"hg 2.95
05"hg 3.67
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.10
6 psi 7.14
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 05: 2500
30"hg 1.24
25"hg 1.33
20"hg 1.62
15"hg 2.05
10"hg 2.90
05"hg 3.67
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.10
6 psi 7.14
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 06: 3000
30"hg 1.19
25"hg 1.33
20"hg 1.71
15"hg 2.14
10"hg 3.00
05"hg 4.10
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.24
6 psi 7.38
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.67
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 07: 3500
30"hg 1.14
25"hg 1.43
20"hg 1.62
15"hg 2.29
10"hg 2.90
05"hg 3.86
00"hg 4.81
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.76
6 psi 7.33
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 8: Load Map
30"hg 0.48
25"hg 0.90
20"hg 1.05
15"hg 1.38
10"hg 2.90
05"hg 3.67
00"hg 4.52
2 psi 5.43
4 psi 6.10
6 psi 7.14
8 psi 7.86
10 psi 8.48
14 psi 8.71
16 psi 9.00
18 psi 9.48
20 psi 10.00


Screen 9 thru 16
30"Hg 0.48
25"Hg 0.90
20"Hg 1.05
15"Hg 1.38
10"Hg 2.90
5"Hg 3.67
00"Hg 4.52
2psi 5.43
4psi 6.10
6psi 7.14
8psi 7.86
10psi 8.48
14psi 8.71
16psi 9.00
18psi 9.48
20psi 10.00


Screen 17: RPMwot
500 00
1000 00
1500 00
2000 00
2500 00
3000 00
3500 00
4000 00
4500 00
5000 00
5500 00
6000 00
6500 00
7000 00
7500 00
8000 00
9000 00


Screen 18: RPMcrs
500 00
1000 00
1500 00
2000 00
2500 00
3000 00
3500 00
4000 00
4500 00
5000 00
5500 00
6000 00
6500 00
7000 00
7500 00
8000 00


Screen 19: Pump
Pump1 Amt +15%
Pump1pulse +02
Pump1Trig +14
Pump1Stop 00"Hg
Pump2Start 2500
Pump2Amt +30%
Pump2Time +10
Pump2Trig +10
Pump2Stop 00"Hg
Pump1ADV +05
Pump2ADV +05

Pump Dwell 3.00
Pump Timers No
Pump1 Sync No
Pump Spare +00
PumpCold +05%

Screen 20: Water
-25 C +00%
-17 C +70%
-9 C +60%
-1 C +55%
5 C +50%
11 C +50%
18 C +45%
24 C +35%
31 C +30%
38 C +20%
46 C +15%
60 C +12%
68 C +08%
82 C +02%
99 C +01%
124 C +00%


Screen 21: Air_t
-25 C +00%
-17 C +08%
-9 C +06%
-1 C +05%
5 C +04%
11 C +03%
18 C +03%
24 C +00%
31 C +00%
38 C +00%
46 C +00%
60 C +00%
68 C +00%
82 C +00%
99 C +00%
124 C +00%


Screen 22: Crank
-25 C +72%
-17 C +72%
-9 C +72%
-1 C +67%
5 C +62%
11 C +57%
18 C +50%
24 C +41%
31 C +31%
38 C +26%
46 C +20%
60 C +15%
68 C +05%
82 C +00%
99 C +00%
124 C +00%


Screen 23: tērpm
500 +04°
1000 +09°
1500 +15°
2000 +20°
2500 +25°
3000 +25°
3500 +25°
4000 +25°
4500 +25°
5000 +25°
5500 +25°
6000 +25°
6500 +25°
7000 +25°
8000 +25°
9000 +25°


Screen 24: tēmap
30"hg +00°
25"hg +01°
20"hg +01°
15"hg +03°
10"hg +02°
05"hg +00°
00"hg +00°
2 psi +00°
4 psi +00°
6 psi +00°
8 psi -02°
10 psi -03°
14 psi -04°
16 psi -05°
18 psi -06°
20 psi -06°


Screen 25: tēair
124 C +00°
99 C +00°
82 C +00°
68 C +00°
60 C +00°
46 C +00°
38 C +00°
31 C +00°
24 C +00°
18 C +00°
11 C +00°
5 C +00°
-1 C +00°
-9 C +00°
-17 C +00°
-25 C +00°


Screen 26: tēgap
500 +15°
1000 +15°
1500 +15°
2000 +14°
2500 +12°
3000 +10°
3500 +10°
4000 +10°
4500 +10°
5000 +10°
5500 +10°
6000 +10°
6500 +10°
7000 +10°
8000 +10°
9000 +10°


Screen 27: tēInj
500 120
1000 150
1500 150
2000 150
2500 150
3000 150
3500 180
4000 180
4500 210
5000 210
5500 210
6000 240
6500 240
7000 270
8000 270
9000 270


Screen 28: tēwat
124 C +00°
99 C +00°
82 C +00°
68 C +00°
60 C +00°
46 C +00°
38 C +00°
31 C +00°
24 C +00°
18 C +00°
11 C +00°
5 C +00°
-1 C +00°
-9 C +00°
-17 C +00°
-25 C +00°


Screen 29: Aux
RPM_ON OFF
MAP_ON OFF
FAN_ON OFF
FANadd 0.10
FANair 0.10
AIRmin 10.00
AIRmax 10.52
AIRwat 0.48
AIRafs 0.10
RMPset 0880
pwmLOW 0.76
pwm_HI 7.62
RMPlim OFF
AIRadd 0.19
Enrich 0.00
Timing +00


Screen 30: Opt
MixTrm +00%
TPScal +48%
TimTrm +00
Static +00
TIMmax +30
RPMwot 05"Hg
RPMcrs 17"Hg
AF_ste +10%
RevLim 7000
RevCut 7500
BstCut 12psi
IdlMap
RevStg 3000
MapStg 05"Hg
%Stg +65%
Decel OFF
Dwell 3.38


Screen 31: Setup
Maps Matrix
Config +04 Cyl/R
Firing Sequential
LOAD= MAP sensor
DWELL= time base
Input +POS
Spark Trig Maz+
Timing Check OFF
Rpm_ON 3500 Log
Map_ON OFF Log
Trim #2 +00% Log
Trim #3 +00% Log
SHIFT 7500 Dash
WATER 99_C Dash
AIR_T OFF Dash
BOOST OFF Dash

bumpstart

4 x 550 = 2200 cc
2 x 550 + 2 x 750 = 2600 cc ,, about 18 % over fueled after staging


the map you is using is in matrix mode,, turn it back now to normal before you proceed to make things much simpler.. it can go back to matrix when you have the basic load map sorted

grab a standard 550 map .
.( the one above looks like it started that way,, but has been messed with at the staging,, you can see the step from the idle map to the 1000 map,, and in reality they should be the same,, something tell me this one runs without the TPS calibrated cause that idle map looks like a 550 one and wont run with that staging value added to it )

push staging % to around 68-70%,, and then go to the mix trim and remove about 18-20 %
anybody with half a clue should be able to see what it is i have done

the correct number is the one that makes the idle back to what it is now.. its going to turn out to be somewhere in the 15-22 % range ..
the same value that you have added to staging % gets pulled out of the mix trim .. in effect this corrects the over fuel when on all four ,, but compensates the idle and prestage back to where it was
.. but you can see the basic cheat that is built into the microtech staging software

AjaxOfTheRockies

Thanks a million!! That does make sense. I'll apply this first thing in the morning and report back.

I *really* appreciate the quick reply!

bumpstart

okies,, 550 maps will be similar to the values you see in your current idle map ,, but staging will be defaulted to 50 %
- this is how i can tell yours is a little too fuddled with to start from ,, grab a virgin 550 map and start again

anything you add to the staging % above 50% is the same value removed from the mix trim
( or applied with a calculator across the whole map bins if doing it permanently )

when the injectors are in prestage then the total staging % value is added to the bin look up value
and thus corrects the 15-22% removed by the mix trim under prestage to mass balance the total fuel flow equation

bumpstart

PS you MUST be sure the TPS is always calibrated,, and that you have the timing calibration done correctly
be aware there is a microtech method.. which will make the maps smudge -5 degrees off real values
and there is a real method.. which makes bin values true crank degrees

be especially aware that when stealing internet maps that this can introduce a fuddle.. one way robbing you power,, and the other way robbing you the engine at next overboost

grabbing a microtech standard map and applying the microtech timing lock check will keep you out of trouble,, but when you look at other manufacturers maps you may realise that all your maps are deliberately +5 degrees to compensate for the false datum start point

myself tend to put the disclaimer on all the maps i post ,, and deliberate keep a few degrees up my sleeve to compensate for people miss using the map.. or using it with a lesser fuel

myself prefers the true method.. where you use calipers to gauge the current split marking on the pulley,, and project them clockwise once and twice from the leading mark
this gives me a 10 BTDC.. and a 25 BTDC mark
if i using timing lock = 10 .. and align to my new 10 BTDC mark .. i have a TRUE timing calibration
microtech instead use the stock -5 mark.... as ZERO

AjaxOfTheRockies

I really am grateful for all this. Going to have to study your input in the morn before i tackle it again. (been watching the Broncos beat the Steelers and an am a couple of sheets to the wind).

I read and performed the Microtech timing cal before starting my tuning adventure, but will do it again when I fully understand your explanation.

once again, my thanks for taking all this time for me.

AjaxOfTheRockies

Update:

Changed to Maps=Normal. Set timing and TPS according to Microtech Setup Tips manual.

Loaded SilverRotor's stock Microtech Map (from the sticky at top of this forum) with the Staging changes you advised:

Stage 69%. I started with the trim at -19%, but it stalled while idling after a monent (died before I could get out of the seat and close the hood). The PLX AFR said 15.9, so I adjusted the trim up to -14%, restarted and idle is smooth and solid 750rpm ant 13.9AFR

Very cool! Took it around the block and it drives *MUCH* better. A bit doggy below 2000 rpm and acceleration stumbles a bit, but going up the hill on the backside of the block and it actually went into a bit of boost and hurried up to the top. Last time I barely made it - had to downshift and rev up over 4k to make it.

You are every bit the genius folks said. Thanks! Going to try to smooth out the lower end now and will report back

AjaxOfTheRockies

up-update:

I must be an idiot. Spent some time trying to smooth out acceleration and the low-rpm power.

no progress. I have a couple of modest hills in the neighborhood, and I climbed them while tweaking the load map (Scn 8) and can't seem to make it any better. Still stumbles when you press the accelerator. Tried tweaking some of the Pump (Scn 19) settings, but again, can't make it better. Acceleration is bumpy and very slow, and it pops and rumbles on deceleration.

So, I guess my question should be, is it okay to drive it like this for the trip over to the dyno shop? It's about 35 miles - 30 on freeway (75mph) and 5 on side streets.

How do I determine that it's okay/safe to make this trip?

thanks! (again)

bumpstart

the stumble off the line is everything to do with TPS calibration.. be sure you have wired up the narrow range TPS and you have the asterisk symbol up to show calibration.. else it cant time the accel pump feature correctly and will fart and snort and need you to ride the clutch away off the line

if you have added 19% to the stage but only pulled 14 % out of the mix trim then the math is still a little fuddled and i would expect that it may need a little more balance to be right..
would go back to having a -19% on the trim and instead just lift the idle and 1000 rpm screen ( to same value ) that will keep it nearly running

this should keep the majority of the map truer and fix up the idle but keep the transition good


you should save the current map where it is best ( to the handset ) and then re-apply what you have just learned,, using the math as it works best and then readjust the idle for the the fine trim up

PS make the changes only after the car is fully warmend up,, else the coolant map corrections will make you chase your tail

bumpstart

another way you can do this is to use the 70% trim and get the calc out and take 20% off all the bin values in the load and idle maps,, and parrot them down

this will allow you to keep mix trim = 0 ( but have basically the curve that nearly works ) and thus you use the mix trim ( always err richer and retest first ) to bump up the mixture at the troubled vacuum/load point ( and the pair of plots either side ) to find out exactly which percent change,, and in which direction helps

and then apply that % change to the bin value directly when your happy you nutted the change out

bumpstart

car will be fine to drive with one of these basic maps as long as you try not to get too far into boost ( although it is the mixtures at the stage point that we have mostly corrected )

you cant really hurt them in vacuum conditions ,, takes some seriously bad timing and very lean mixtures for a long time to do damage..
.......under boost,, different story ,, avoid getting there if you are unsure of mixes and timing

i already think you have the main jist of it,, and as long as you only play when its fully warmed up.. should be able to further nut it out just by tailoring the trouble plots one by one

bumpstart

PSS.. just be sure your map sensor is plugged into a port that is vacuum from behind butterflies,, be aware one of those nipples is ported/ purge air and will make the MAP sensor see funny things at part throttle

AjaxOfTheRockies

Hi, sorry to be gone for a bit. Got a massive assignment at work and have been buried.

Anyway, since last time, I took the car to a dyno shop with a good reptuation and had them do a tune for my emissions test. on the dyno, it developed a coolant leak and a boost leak.

Coolant leak was the heater core, so it took quite a while to fix - had to take the entire interior apart; seats out, dash out, heater out etc.

Boost leak was the hose from the turbo outlet to the BAC had vulcanized and just broke in two.

Some curiosity, is that the tuner guy said that the boost was coming on very late, and that he hadn't seen the power line on the dyno screen bounce up and down like he saw.

any thoughts on how to start tracking down what else could be wrong with this car?

Thanks!

bumpstart

=

dont use the middle port behind the alt