Crit

iTrader: (6)

I'm prepping my RX-2 project for EFI in the future, but am gonna have more time than money in the near future (getting married), so I'd like to get to building a v3 ms1 setup and use the 2-barrel EFI throttle body from Rotaryshack to replace the Weber down the road. Is the accepted setup for us noobs to use the CAS? I remember when spark and ion sensing were on the megasquirt wish list, but that v3 now has a lot more functionality. I'll be starting with a 4-port 13B with a junkyard CAS.

Would someone take a minute and describe a good setup, whether using FC coils, wideband vs standard O2 sensors, electric fluid senders (if it matters)? I'd also like to make a single umbilical for the engine harness (handmade) to include all gauge senders, MS wiring, ignition, etc. Is there a good multiconductor plug that people use?

[Edit] For whatever retarded reason, I didn't notice the sticky FAQ. I'll get caught up, but would like a little advice. And I'm not tied to Mazda sensors at all, if GM map and IAT help at all.

Crit

iTrader: (6)

This is what I'm looking to use down the road, so I doubt there's any provision for IAC, but everything else should be available, I'd think, using GM sensors.

http://www.rotaryshack.com/Products/...p?intNotice=22

Rex4Life

I've heard the FC ignition setup works pretty good, I'm currently using it. Should be pretty cheap and available to get from junk yards. The MS with some mods will handle this with no problem and this would be easy to wire up.

I'd go with a wideband for tuning. Innovate LC-1 is only $200 for sensor and controller and works with MS. My sensor is only 1-1/2 months old and going out, but it may be my fault. Once you're tuned a NB should be good enough for ego cruise operation.

I'd think multi-conductor is out and you build a custom harness. I'd use GM sensors and GM connectors for the whole thing cause they are easily available and cheap.

Good Luck,

Scott

Crit

iTrader: (6)

Is there a good umbilical plug, similar to what's often seen on aircraft, with 20-or-so conductors in a waterproof plug for the bulkhead?

I've also seen a number of writeups with people removing the 24-tooth ring on the CAS and replacing it, but others mention clipping two teeth and moving right along with the extra conditioning circuit. Is it as easy as clipping two opposing teeth, integrating the extra circuit, and moving on to the next sensor?

I've also got one tapped and two closed ports on my intake manifold (I'd like to reuse it when tossing the Weber). Can I run the IAT and MAP off the two ports in the forward runner and use the forward O2 sensor in my custom header, letting the rear rotor run as a slave, more or less, with all the sensors and feedback coming from the front rotor? The rear runner would only be used, then, for a vacuum port. Since I'm tapping the holes, I'd like to just run the GM components as normal, since I'll have to make my entire harness.

Is there any reason to incorporate both O2 sensors in my header, or should I just stick a junk O2 in the rear one to plug the hole?

I remember that the -SE and FC setups used the flapper door as a MAF, more or less. Do megasquirt guys throw away the door and convert to the MAP/IAT setup?


[EDIT]
Is there a concensus on DIY vs Glen's Garage vs whatever regarding pricing and support?

Speculum

IAT should be fine just off 1 barrel ... the MAP imo should share the front and rear ... and yes the MAF gets a new home as a paper-weight ...

muythaibxr

With the CAS you have several options... to quote from the FAQ:

"For the V2.2 board, you'll need a dual lm1815 circuit. For this, I recommend error*'s board, which also includes circuitry for several of the other features that msns-extra supports, such as EGT logging, table switching, water injection, launch control, nitrous control, boost control, and extra outputs (good for actuating VDI, aux ports, etc...)

For the V3 board, you actually already have a single vr sensor conditioner, so you have 2 choices: cut two opposing teeth out of the CAS, and use only the single built-in vr sensor conditioner, or build a second vr sensor conditioner (lm1815 works)... you can do that in the v3 board's proto area, or you can just get error*'s daughterboard, and only build/use one of the lm1815 circuits on there."

Crit

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, I was looking at using error's board, which has two lm1815 circuits anyway, for a total of 3 (right?). Would I run into problems if running simply by the MAP/IAT since I won't have a TPS?

Crit

iTrader: (6)

dp

muythaibxr

not having a tps will keep you from using some features, such as idle advance (makes for a really smooth idle, but allows use of the mapped value for keeping the engine from falling on its face when you rev high then let off), but the engine will run fine without it as long as you set up and tune MAPdot accel enrichment.

Crit

iTrader: (6)

muythai, is there still no way to use the MS2 daughterboard? I'd like to go with a stimulator, relay box, and MV setup in the car, but don't have room for it all in the interior of the car. The RX-2 has cowls under the windshield to hide the wiper motor, with the driver's side left empty (because it's RHD). Would this be a suitably clean environment for a MS box? If not, I'll put the relays here and put the MS in the trunk.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...41_11_full.jpg

Just so I'm not getting off on the wrong foot, can someone suggest the right hardware to run an old rotary setup with a junkyard CAS and no EFI wiring in place yet? I'm looking to provide new GM IAT, Coolant, and supplied MAP (IAT, MAP, and O2 all running off front rotor). No IAC or TPS, though I might add it later.

My best guess at a good setup for my needs would be a MS 1 on a 3.0 board with relay box under the cowl and the umbilical (which I've yet to identify) plugging into the cowl itself as a bulkhead connector. I'd leave room for the ignition outputs, though I might look at MS 2 if rotary ignition is likely to be available later. After all, I can always drop a MS 1 chip in to replace the daughterboard, right? Megaview and 'maybe' AFR meter would be in the dash. MS box and battery would be in the trunk.

muythaibxr

you can't use the MS2 daughtercard yet. Still no wheel decoder or rotary support.

the stim is only for bench testing so that doesn't need to go in your car, and the relay board doesn't need to go in the car either, that can go under the hood... the only thing you'd need in the car is the megaview (but you can't use that with msns-extra to set settings, just to display them) and the megasquirt itself. The megasquirt chip is not rated for under-hood temps so I'd recommend leaving it in the car.

Eventually the MS2 will support rotary, but I'm not going to try to add that until the GPIO board and router board are out.... I'd recommend just getting the ms1 version, and when support is added for the gpio/router boards you can move over to that... it's going to be a complete rewire at that point though.

Finally I wouldn't run the MAP off of only one rotor... I'd run it off of both... on both there's already a noticable pulsation at low revs, so it will only get worse if you run it off of one.

For wires, I recommend http://www.rs-autosport.com/

Crit

iTrader: (6)

Well, my manifold is completely divorced, being for a 2-barrel Weber. I suppose that my best bet would be to discretely tee between the two runners just below the TB, or perhaps machine a spacer plate that will allow me to port between them.

I know that the stimulator will stay inside the house, but I was looking to see if the "fairly" well-protected area under the cowling would be sufficient for the megasquirt. It never gets wet, but it's not like being inside the firewall.

Are the GPIO board and router board going to be incorporated in UMS? If I use a relay box under my wiper cowl, will the pinouts be the same, such that I can just swap the megasquirt unit out from the trunk and not have to rewire the engine harness?

Thanks for the quick followup, btw. I'd like to fiddle with building my setup over the holidays, if I can get everything nailed down.

muythaibxr

A vacuum line tee with an adjustable restrictor would be perfect.

I wouldn't put the megasquirt unit under the hood. I'm just worried about heat from the engine.

I wouldn't even think about UMS yet... that's at least a year away.... and sometimes it seems from Bruce and Al's comments that the UMS might not ever come out... but I might be reading into their comments too much. The bottom line is that if you want to go with a megasquirt, and you want to do it anytime soon, you want to go with a v3 board with an ms1 chip, and msns-extra.

Nobody really knows what the pinouts will be like for the GPIO board and Router board yet... they're not out yet after all... I think development has just started on them, or if it's been in development, it's only been in development for a few months.

Crit

iTrader: (6)

Alrighty. The Squit 3.0, stim, relay kit, and SquirtnSpark-E board are all now built and everything checks out swimmingly. I'll head to the junkyard in the coming week to grab a CAS and coil/ignitor packs from an FC. I added the square-wave trigger, but have the VR setup jumpered in. I'd like to go fuel-only to get the car started, just because I have everything already on the motor (though I still lack a car). A few questions...

1.) any leads on a multi-conductor plug that'll move all my I/O from the relay board? I'm looking for something like this, but don't want to spend an arm and a leg.
http://www.hirose-connectors.com/products/JR_5.htm

2.) I know I've got to integrate the daughterboard with the extra VR conditioner and drop the pullup resistors onto my LED's, but what else do I need to get going to prep my MS 3.0 for a rotary?

3.) I'm gonna check, but I think that the TBI setup I'm looking at doesn't have a TPS available at all. Should I just go, then, with a vacuum trigger at, say, 2 in-Hg to trigger my open-loop?

4.) My MegaTune 2.25b725 looks nothing like the megatune screenshots shown in the FAQ. I don't have most of the drop-down menus, even. What am I missing?

5.) I know nothing about firmware updates which i've seen mentioned here. Do I need to study up on error*'s daughterboard, or can I wire it up and get the VR working?

custom13B

Crit,
If you want a TPS you can easily adapt a GM unit. I used a throttle body from a GM 3.8 litre V6. When your in the junk yard remove a throttle body from a GM 3.8 Buick le sabre and many others work well. Then when you get the throttle body home unscrew the TPS and set it aside. Youll notice the throttle shaft has a roll pin that moves the TPS. Remove the screws that hold the throttle butterfly in place and push the throttle shaft out of the throttle body. Cut off about 1 inch on that shaft with the roll pin on it. Then clamp that 1 inch piece in a drill press vise and drill a 1/8 hole through the center of the shaft. On your throttle body injection decide where you want the TPS and drill a 1/8 hole in the end of that shaft. Tap the hole on the TB shaft to 6-32. Then get a 6-32 screw and screw your extension piece with the roll pin on making sure it wont contact anything. Then you just have to put a couple tack welds on and your done. Ohh now you just bend a piece of metal to hold the TPS..its really easier than it sounds. If you bend alluminum just make sure to anneal it first. A map torch works fine to anneal alluminum. Then the TPS has 3 wires to connect to the MS. The center wire is the signal for TPS to the MS. One of the other wires gets ground and 1 gets 5 volts from the MS. If you hook it up and it dosnt work just swap the outer 2 wires and your done. Go to a pick n pull type junk yard and you can get these TB's cheap and with the wiring pigtail. Bring a hammer thier mounted to a plastic intake and are a real PITA to pull. Good luck hope I helped a bit or at least made you think of a better idea,Shawn

muythaibxr

I have no idea on this one...

All info you need is in the FAQ.

The MS doesn't use in-Hg for measuring vacuum, it uses kPa, and you can set open loop based on that. If you have a wideband, you can just run full-time closed-loop...

You need to put the proper msns-extra.ini file from the firmware directory into the megatune installation directory in the mtCfg directory, and edit your settings.ini file . Change #set MS_I to #unset MS_I and change #unset MSNS_EXTRA to #set MSNS_EXTRA.

error*'s daughterboard has nothing to do with the firmware updates. You can either cut out 2 teeth on the CAS and not use the msns-extra daughterboard.... or you can build an extra lm1815 circuit in the proto area, and not cut 2 teeth out, or you can use the daughterboard (And have almost all the circuits you need for extra features, including the lm1815). It's up to you.

Ken

jayroc

I used junk wiring harness connectors and a computer power connector for my install. lol
I plan to change it out soon. Works well, but is a PITA because I had to use different connetors and takes maybe a full minute to connect everything.. (well, in the dark and when I have to get the electrical tape off my spade connections..) The one I plan to use is from Painless. Part# 40012, 15 wire connector. 12 would work well, also.. I believe the wire gauge is big enough to handle the current. I need to order one and find out.

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...Connectors.php

If that is not the part, call them. They are local to us and should have what you need.

-billy

Crit

iTrader: (6)

That's ideal, and not expensive. Thanks, man.

RXBeetle

No datasheet or even a pic of the connectors on that site? Kinad sketchy...
If the connector is in a dry enviornment a D-sub connector is fine for sensors. You can get solder cup pins so you don't have to get expensive crimpers. www.digikey.com
I would use a seprate harness for all the current carying wires (injectors, BAC, ignition, etc) You can use heavier wire on this harness and a good power connector.
connectors
I have seen people damn near loose thier minds chasing down EMI problems in electronics and I make it a habbit to isolate load and sensing paths as much as possible. This doesn't seem to be as much of a concearn with automotive but finding a good power connector and a d-sub is still cheaper than one giant connector. It's also a lot easier to keep track of the wiring with seperated harnesses.