KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

You have to decide how you are going to preach your ideas, the lemans rotary engine don't count cause it wasn't a production engine, but somehow the F1 engine counts?

For the last time, I am talking about modified production engines; a K series vs ANY 13B!

Set both to 300HP NA, race them, and then lets talk about MPG, and reliability.

Plain and simple, you want to talk about a DD car? K series hands down!

What, an engine that gets good MPG? K series hands down!

A reliable engine?K series hands down!

How about a modified 300HP NA engine? Still think a K series will win over a 13B?

BTW - I don't consider the S200, RX-8, RSX\TSX, Miata a sports car; but thats just me.

fd3s_jerry

I'd race my fd against any 300 hp k series, PERIOD! crx's, hatches, whatever. the fd isn't n/a, but whatever, i'll race a boosted 300 hp k series too.

w33n

Actually that's exactly what you said. However, I NEVER specifically said that a rotary was better. I just said that if you say something that implies that all Honda motors are better than all rotary motors, you are making a false statement.

w33n

Not to mention the fact that you are getting all butthurt and I SPECIFICALLY...SPECIFICALLY said that I wasn't being inflammatory. RX7club is a great forum, but there always has to be some "I am offended, therefore I am" lurking in every thread, doesn't there? Only someone with an apparent lack of social graces could get all pissy when I SPECIFICALLY SAID that I wasn't being inflammatory.
And let's not even point out the fact that I am not a huge rotary fanboy to begin with. I like them, but not as much as I like some other engines.
Somebody get 1QWIK7 some Midol, please.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

You said when it comes to racing, history speaks for itself. You must have left out honda's F1 in your history book.

Id go with the honda in terms of long term reliability. The rotary is just power efficient. More power you make on the rotary, you take a chunk of life away. That goes for every engine but MORESO on a rotary. This is a fact.

You do know the renesis gets horrible gas mileage right? For a puny NA rotary. Id imagine a 300hp version would be worse. Plus honda still has VTACKKK, it will get good MPG no matter what. 1 more point to honda.


A modified na k engine is a beast. It would be a cool race to see between the 2. Honestly its hard to say cause there is no car involved. But trying to look at it soley on engine, id go with the honda again. Only cause i cant imagine seeing a NA 13B engine making 300hp. Our rotarys need turbo to survive lol

fd3s_jerry

does anyone involved in the argument even have a ******* k series honda??? then why are people getting butthurt about it. watch this, I'll say "buttfuck honda's" again, and it's gonna be good for at least 2 more pages of arguing. just drop it. if you like the k-series so much, buy one. but don't try and convince me that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread if you aren't convinced enough to actually buy one yourself.

here goes nothing.

BUTTFUCK HONDA'S!!!!!!!!

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Argh, man I comparing a K engine to a 13B.


I guess speedsource dominates the category, because they got lucky couple of years in a row? Guess what engine they used to race agaisnt back when the used the renesis 13b?


Yes, the rotary engine, will NEVER get good MPG; however once you star modifying the B & K series engines; their mpg is goes down drastically.


Actually, both engines are a beast; but how come you've never seen\heard of a 13B NA make 300hp?

12akid

wat u mean the raced ported 13bs are runing 10s all motor

fd3s_jerry

I say again, BUTTFUCK HONDAS!!!

12akid

that honda got smoked lol

rx7henry

Why is there even debate on pairing a na 2.0 vs. a twin turboed rotary? Oh, that’s right; it needs turbo to be sufficient enough for competition. Don't even try to bring up a 300hp k series, the FD or any rotary for a FACT never came in 300hp from the factory.

Companies have managed to push the k series motor into the 700hp field. Look it up, project delta. Last I checked, the 13b-rew doesn’t make much past 600hp.

You can say buttfuck Hondas all day, you're opinions won't change FACTS. If you haven't noticed, its debates involving Hondas that get some members nostrils to flare up. Almost as if they have something to fear. It's to some extent the truth as these motors DO pose a threat that none want to concede. No one says you need to like it or anything. These are just simply facts that other members are stating, and your arguments involving absurd claims for the rotary just isn't compelling.

The rx-8 comes strung out from the factory pretty much, like the s2k. Bolt ons give dubious gains. The k20a2 type r engines are known to put down 220whp from basic bolt ons. That’s why companies like buddy club use them as a fanatical platform for domination in some time attack & road races.

Even though this is a rotary forum, members like us want to put it out there so you & other members don't go blind and expect to beat some "honduh" to **** and get handled. We are not here to intimidate or however you view our comments. If you know it will take X amount of power to beat Y car, it’s better to find out here and mod accordingly to beat them than to find out when its too late at the track or strip. Isn’t this true?

For the person that posted what Honda had in competition during the FC era, the 92-93 GSR does 6.5 0-60 & 15.2 ¼ mile. That’s not even na match up for the FC, that’s turbo territory.

Arguments like these can go on for several more pages long, but I don’t think we’ll get tired out pulling up more sources to back these claims. Sure ricers can go to hell, and ‘vtak’ motors like the single cam d series and f series are dull, but engines like the k obviously deserve some type of credit.

tubbs*prtlnd

i have a feeling that if they badged the k20a2 something other than a honda engine, it would get the respect here that it deserves. more often than not, whenever someone suggests that in fact the 13b wasn't the best engine ever produced, it gets slammed with a huge bandwagon of rotards. there should be a separate forum for close minded idiots to go and talk **** about everything non rotary... im a big fan of rotaries, but i don't live with blinders on my eyes.

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

I 100% agreed, if you like K-series so much just buy one and stfu. This is a ROTARY CLUB not Honda or other piston club.

rx7henry

Haha. This is solely a completely opinionated statement. You are generalizing and telling us owners what we can and cannot like. WTF? I choose to like rotors and pistons. No one is pointing a gun to your head to tell you to like what you chose. Anger will not get any point across.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Were not forcing any opinions on you, it's just no one gives a **** if you like hondas.

I mean, if i bought a civic as a DD I wouldn't do on honda tech posting videos of abbel ibarra and dyno vids of 700whp single turbo FDs.

It's not proving anything that you keep telling us how awesome of an engine a k20 is, no one here cares.

12akid

and ur point is ???? u showed us a video of a k w/e get smoked by a vette ??? lol

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I am not comparing it to a 13BTT, besides what's your point? The K series for a FACT never came in 300hp from the factory.

NA? Again whats your point? Are you saying that a 13BT can't go as high as 700hp? 1000hp?

How high can they go while staying NA? Wouldn't they producee the same HP as if you were to mod a regular k20 rsx engine?

Sorry not from the factory, and if you haven't seen a NA FC do a 15.2...

Yes but you can't come up here and claim that they are far superior than the rotary engine. YES, for a person that is not into cars, a K series engine is a better choice over the 13B NA, same goes if you don't plan on modifying the engines, the K series wins hands down. Hell, even if you plan on doing one or two "bolts on" the k series wins over a 13B NA.

When it comes to racing, and be serious aboout modifying the eninges? Sorry, I don't see the advantage of a K series over a 13B; not in NA trim or turbo trim.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Considering that's after the last NA FC coupe was introduced, that's into FD territory.....please try again. Even then, somehow I don't think the old Integra's, even while they're light, would do well around a track, such as the nurburgring, compared to the NA FC's. Hmm....in 91, looks like they had only the GS at 140 hp.....

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I know we are, so why mention "history speaks for itself" when talking about racing? The k-series engine just came out this decade, how long the 13B was in production cars/race cars? And remember the real time rsx's in scca? Guess what engine they have in there.


Again, read my post above.


[quote]Yes, the rotary engine, will NEVER get good MPG; however once you star modifying the B & K series engines; their mpg is goes down drastically.[/qupte]

Of course, i agree with you 100% but again, you still cant tell me or prove the fact that a modified rotary will be superior to a modified k series engine. Cause its not. Failed modded rotarys are soo common, a complete car idiot will can know this.



No i have seen and heard 300hp na 13b's but going by what the other guy said, race ported. LOL good luck with that in MPG.

A bolt on k-series with a cam? Do you really understand how effective those mods are to this engine? I dont think you do, cause really, you'll have a change of mind quickly.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Not so much about who's a fan of what. This is a legit conversation, about fact vs fiction.

Im not a honda fan at all but jesus christ, i know facts. I honestly cant believe these people think honda got their history just by selling economy cars at a great price LOL

thatkoltguy

Hello, ive been reading this thread..and frankly i have to say...LOL

i guess i have to agree that Honda Engines are more efficient, in terms of consumption, durability as well as power** (which is still debatable).

My opinion** NA wise i believe VTEC engines (H22A, F20C F22C..) > the 13B (NA)

But if you really wished to compare Mazda to Honda...talking about a 13b Turbo in an FD3s, then the most common sense thing to do is to compare to Honda's sports car of the same class. (the equivalent that honda has to offer in that class)

to justify this "class" the following cars are in it:

Toyota Supra, Nissan Skyline, Mazda Rx7 (FD), Honda NSX, Mitsubishi Lan evo, Subaru WRX...and then there are gna be others from the rest of the globe...

so obviously its gna be the Mazda FD3S vs the Honda NSX from that class..

now in terms of perfomance...

efficiency...

and durability..

it would be clear to see then NSX as the winner.

Price wise the Mazda will be cheaper than the NSX..
but we cannot debate this part simply because as much as mazda have put effort into the 13B turbo FD, Honda has also put that much effort in making somewhat a "mini supercar"out of the NSX, in terms of pricing the NSX is way up there.

but opinions of others will vary..and i respect that.

i do not see why anyone would disagree, but some people seem to have their replies based on pure mazda pride deep within themselves while some reply based on facts..every person is different, and i would not blame you if you love your Mazda or Honda.

so as much as possible stick to the facts, while i admit Mazda has a good racing history, well its inevitable, the 13B engine is small, light and powerful, that doesnt mean its efficient. when a race car is made, the engineers concentrate on power and maximum HP rather than efficiency in terms on fuel consumption or engine wear etc..to them they need a race car to win the next race..

While an FD is Light packed with a 13b, its lots of fun to drive. it may be a 1.3L but it consumes as bad as a V8..and thats inneficient. in another sense, you might find more fun in an S2000..with decent power and acceleration with less fuel consumption

However..The Rotary will provide more power at the cost of reducing the engine's lifetime..very inneficient..

as much as im trying to keep this post neutral towards both mazda and Honda, the "FACTS" i have mentioned make it seem Honda is the better car...

If you are a city/urban driver, you would go with a Honda unless ur a proud mazda person..

Long story short..If you are Happy with a Mazda more than a Honda, then so be it, for you the Mazda is the better car..and vice versa that goes for the same for The Honda.


The Global Verdict:

Mazda FD Twin Turbo VS the NSX type R

You decide.

mazda.junkie

Both!

you sure did dig up a fossil here.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I dont know how you can LOL when basically you explained everything i have said, but you included your own words.

I forgot what this thread was about as it was many months ago and im not reading this whole thread again but all im saying is that honda has its history in being VERY reliable, fuel efficient, having the best in advanced technology, all while being very affordable. Its racing history is no stranger too. If you dont know much about honda racing history, please look it up before you hit the reply button.

Yes mazda has its history too with the rotary, but when was the latest "big bang"? I know what you're going to say, 24 hour of lemans right? Yes i know, thats everyone's favorite comeback line when their in defense. But i hate to break the bad news, that was almost 2 decades ago and also that engine has never, nor will it ever be in a production car.

Honda, IIRC, still leads the pack in most HP per liter. I dont even want to compare the NSX and the FD because the NSX is in a class higher. I would say the S2K and the FD is a good match. And even then, the S2K 250HP on a n/a engine. While the FD makes its 255 using twin turbo. Now if you were to bring up the rx8 into this discussion, it doesnt hold water as it was tested as being underpowered time and time again before it was debuted. From 250, to like 238? I wont doubt it makes less than that stock.

There is nothing out now mazda has hopes for. Nothing out now mazda can use to say, "hey i got this, im still in the game". No nothing.

You're comparing one of the greatest manufacturers against another manufacturer that had a one time greatest? 24 hour of lemans?

lol look at the lineup for the hondas, a 4 door sedan SI making 197HP? **** look at the shitty EP3's, the ones making 160hp. The 04's have the same value as an 04 rx8 with similar milage.

And the rx8 is almost twice the price of that SI when both are brand new lol.

Go figure that one out.

PDViper77

iTrader: (9)

To the thread starter:

I DONT THINK HONDAS ARE SLOW......... I KNOW HONDAS ARE SLOW!

That is all.

Hello Roto

yeah i guess it all comes down to whatever floats your boat.. cuz id take that rsx anyday!! i bet theres alot more pride in a kid that has a little rice burner that might of broken his wallet, and took 2 yrs of his life to build, than some rich guy who just threw 40gs on the table and said gimme a vette.. so you can keep your vettes and vipers, we here is simple folks, we drive simple cars and do what we can..

no yeah right id take that vette, ebay that bad boy..