Basic stero install questions..??
10-05-09, 06:27 PM
#1
Basic stero install questions..??
I been bring back to life a 1st gen that sat for 6-7 years and it's time to get the radio going.
I have a few things laying around that I'd like to use to save $$$ but I'm willing to spend some $$$ too.
BTW I'm a stereo NOOB.
Anyways, my first question is do I wire the regular speakers directly off the radio...? I recall doing that once before years ago and the regular speakers sounded like poop. I always thought the radio was the cause (cheap?) or the speaker wire wasn't heavy enough..?? And I want the stereo to sound at least decent this time around.
The radio is a pretty old Kenwood (prob 12 years already) and the only markings on it I can find is 30w x 4.
I think what's going in the car will be stock sized 4" speakers up front by the kicker panels, 5" right behind the seat mid body, 6x9's in the far rear, w/tweeters up front by the pillars... Like I said I have no clue what I'm doing here just going by what I've seen around before so if someone thinks no good or has a better idea I'm all ears.
I also have a old old kicker sub box (late 80's early 90's...?) w/two 8's that I want to put all the way in the back hatch.
I'm ready to start wiring up this thing but would like some sound advice before I jump the gun. Thanks.
I have a few things laying around that I'd like to use to save $$$ but I'm willing to spend some $$$ too.
BTW I'm a stereo NOOB.
Anyways, my first question is do I wire the regular speakers directly off the radio...? I recall doing that once before years ago and the regular speakers sounded like poop. I always thought the radio was the cause (cheap?) or the speaker wire wasn't heavy enough..?? And I want the stereo to sound at least decent this time around.
The radio is a pretty old Kenwood (prob 12 years already) and the only markings on it I can find is 30w x 4.
I think what's going in the car will be stock sized 4" speakers up front by the kicker panels, 5" right behind the seat mid body, 6x9's in the far rear, w/tweeters up front by the pillars... Like I said I have no clue what I'm doing here just going by what I've seen around before so if someone thinks no good or has a better idea I'm all ears.
I also have a old old kicker sub box (late 80's early 90's...?) w/two 8's that I want to put all the way in the back hatch.
I'm ready to start wiring up this thing but would like some sound advice before I jump the gun. Thanks.
10-05-09, 07:45 PM
#2
Off the back of the radio is only one port for rca jacks... I remember the last radio I put in my other car had two ports for rca jacks. One front one rear..?
I have two amps also. After just looking both of them over, one looks pretty simple. The other has all kinds of buttons cross overs rca ports... It gave me a headache just looking at it.
I have two amps also. After just looking both of them over, one looks pretty simple. The other has all kinds of buttons cross overs rca ports... It gave me a headache just looking at it.
10-05-09, 07:54 PM
#3
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My honest suggestion would be to not use all the crap you have laying around. Sounds like everything is at least 10 years old, and I can tell you that technology has come a long way since then, giving you better quality for less money.
A really nice headunit will give you decent sound straight to the speakers, but to get the best sound, you'll need an amp. RCA cables go from the headunit to the amp generally, then speaker wire from the amp to the speakers.
The 30w x 4 is referring to the amp built into the headunit. 4 channels at 30watts each. 30 watts is not going to get you far at all.
A big advantage to getting new stuff is that they'll come with instruction manuals that will tell you what everything is and what they do.
If you're going to do a subwoofer too, you're probably going to want to look into upgrading your alternator. I don't know much about 1st gens, but if their alts are anything like s4 alts, they aren't going to cut it for a nice sound system.
Why don't you start by telling us what you want out of your system and you'll get a better response.
I don't know a ton about sound systems really, but i've shared with you what i do know.
A really nice headunit will give you decent sound straight to the speakers, but to get the best sound, you'll need an amp. RCA cables go from the headunit to the amp generally, then speaker wire from the amp to the speakers.
The 30w x 4 is referring to the amp built into the headunit. 4 channels at 30watts each. 30 watts is not going to get you far at all.
A big advantage to getting new stuff is that they'll come with instruction manuals that will tell you what everything is and what they do.
If you're going to do a subwoofer too, you're probably going to want to look into upgrading your alternator. I don't know much about 1st gens, but if their alts are anything like s4 alts, they aren't going to cut it for a nice sound system.
Why don't you start by telling us what you want out of your system and you'll get a better response.
I don't know a ton about sound systems really, but i've shared with you what i do know.
10-05-09, 08:04 PM
#4
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Well, if you need to use what you have, it's not a big deal. There are cheap ways to make what you have sound good.
Newer decks are usually 50x4, even midrange decks from 10 years ago were 50x4 so you might have a lower end model, which could mean you have less RCA outs than other decks. Either way, it's probably not a big deal to you.
On to installation tips:
When you install the speakers, make sure you get the polarity correct! It may not just be the wire quality or the deck. It should say on the speakers and the rear of the deck which is positive and which is negative. For speaker wire, get standard copper/silver stuff at home depot or other hardware store. There's different gauges, just don't go too small.
For good sound out of a speaker, you need to separate the soundwaves from the back and front of the speaker. If you look at your door when you take the door panel off, there should be plastic. You can see that when you mount your speaker the rear of the speaker would be in it's own chamber separate from the front of the speaker. Some people go further and seal up the door with sound deadening material, which is the best way, but it costs more. As long as you mount your speaker into something rigid so it doesn't vibrate and the back and front of the speaker are separated, you will get sound far better than stock.
Also, make sure your ground from the deck is really good, ie to bare metal. Naturally, make sure all your connections are quality. When running a sub, run the power wire down one side of the car and the signal (RCA) wires on another side. If you get lazy and run them side by side down the same path you'll get distortion.
That's all I can think of for now. Have fun.
Newer decks are usually 50x4, even midrange decks from 10 years ago were 50x4 so you might have a lower end model, which could mean you have less RCA outs than other decks. Either way, it's probably not a big deal to you.
On to installation tips:
When you install the speakers, make sure you get the polarity correct! It may not just be the wire quality or the deck. It should say on the speakers and the rear of the deck which is positive and which is negative. For speaker wire, get standard copper/silver stuff at home depot or other hardware store. There's different gauges, just don't go too small.
For good sound out of a speaker, you need to separate the soundwaves from the back and front of the speaker. If you look at your door when you take the door panel off, there should be plastic. You can see that when you mount your speaker the rear of the speaker would be in it's own chamber separate from the front of the speaker. Some people go further and seal up the door with sound deadening material, which is the best way, but it costs more. As long as you mount your speaker into something rigid so it doesn't vibrate and the back and front of the speaker are separated, you will get sound far better than stock.
Also, make sure your ground from the deck is really good, ie to bare metal. Naturally, make sure all your connections are quality. When running a sub, run the power wire down one side of the car and the signal (RCA) wires on another side. If you get lazy and run them side by side down the same path you'll get distortion.
That's all I can think of for now. Have fun.
10-05-09, 08:20 PM
#5
This car sat outside exposed to the elements for 7 years and was on the verge of being parted out by it's owner before I saved it's life. I been working on it since january nonstop and have sunk 10x's the amount of time into it then $$$.
I'll spend the $$$ ONLY if I have to. I'll do the next install 100% on my own personal car (another 1st gen).
I'm just looking to get what I already have to sound as best as it can by hooking it up properly.
Thanks for the tips so far.
Alright, so since the headunit sucks... I'm guessing I should hook up all the speakers (except the subs) off one of the amps..? and the subs off of the other amp...?
One amp is a kicker impulse, except I don't know what size wattage it is.
The other amp is a Rockford Fosgate Punch 900w. This one seems to be split up for fronts and rears.
10-06-09, 02:03 AM
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900w is gunna do you just fine for the front/rear channels, sounds like it has 4 channels (?) 2 front 2 rear? The pass through, i believe, is used if you want a signal, say the rear signal, passed through that amp onto another amp. Not sure of the real advantage of this.
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10-06-09, 09:33 AM
#8
I was thinking the same thing... like another output to power the next amp for say the subs..?
Only thing I don't get is my old kenwood hedunit only has the one rca output. How is the amp going to decifer front and rear...? Without knowing any better I'm going to guess it can't.
I wonder how it would sound if I split the one rear rca jack coming off the back of the headunit to the front and rear inputs on the rockford amp..? I'm thinking not so good as the fronts would be playing the same as the rears...?? Which would defeat the whole purpose of having the fronts an rears seperated...???
Only thing I don't get is my old kenwood hedunit only has the one rca output. How is the amp going to decifer front and rear...? Without knowing any better I'm going to guess it can't.
I wonder how it would sound if I split the one rear rca jack coming off the back of the headunit to the front and rear inputs on the rockford amp..? I'm thinking not so good as the fronts would be playing the same as the rears...?? Which would defeat the whole purpose of having the fronts an rears seperated...???
10-06-09, 02:32 PM
#9
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I was thinking the same thing... like another output to power the next amp for say the subs..?
Only thing I don't get is my old kenwood hedunit only has the one rca output. How is the amp going to decifer front and rear...? Without knowing any better I'm going to guess it can't.
I wonder how it would sound if I split the one rear rca jack coming off the back of the headunit to the front and rear inputs on the rockford amp..? I'm thinking not so good as the fronts would be playing the same as the rears...?? Which would defeat the whole purpose of having the fronts an rears seperated...???
Only thing I don't get is my old kenwood hedunit only has the one rca output. How is the amp going to decifer front and rear...? Without knowing any better I'm going to guess it can't.
I wonder how it would sound if I split the one rear rca jack coming off the back of the headunit to the front and rear inputs on the rockford amp..? I'm thinking not so good as the fronts would be playing the same as the rears...?? Which would defeat the whole purpose of having the fronts an rears seperated...???
Another solution is to get a EQ/line driver. I know clarion made one for a while that only needed one pair of RCA in, and had 3 RCA outs (front, rear and sub). So you could look into that. They're usually 1/2 din in size.
Oh I found it: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...n+EQS746.html#
But this is a patch type fix. It may be easier to get another deck. But really, it's going to come down to economics for you. If you want to spend the money or not. I'm telling you the biggest difference is the quality of the install. Everyone thinks if you just throw maximum power at a stereo it'll sound great. If all your speakers are un-baffled and the connections are crappy, it doesn't matter how expensive your components are. In reality, most people can't tell good sound from great sound. From your situation and the priority in the car, I would just make the sound good. It will be better than stock for sure.
10-06-09, 02:47 PM
#10
Of all the things listed, the deck is whats going to make the biggest difference. You can make the single RCA out work, but I wouldnt do it. If you have amps already, I would get a deck with front, rear, and subwoofer RCA's. All the stuff you have lying around will do fine as long as its in good condition minus the head unit. I doubt your sub amp has a separate bass **** so the sub out really comes in handy. I know I used mine all the time.
10-06-09, 03:10 PM
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Whats up man let me get my 2 cents in!!
By the way a lil on me ive been doing electroics for 15 years so i can give u a soild break down here. And a cheap fix for your 1 RCA issue. 1st thing to get the additioal out puts you need get yourself a hi/lo converter (you'll understand when u get it) DO NOT split that signal from the single RCA bcause if it is for sub Hz will will get extremely poor sound quality. The HI/LO will turn ur radios speakers leads into RCA jacks for your amp. ALTHOUGH if you really wana unpgrade get a lil better radio.. but i do understand BUDGETING LOL...The 1st gen to my knowledge is only a 50 amp alternator REAL BAD for big systems ill give u a quick formaula take the total power consuption (watts in total) and divide it by 13.6 (voltage while car is running) and this will give you your total AMPERAGE DRAW keep in mind at night lights are on the radio is on the heater or AC might be on all these also consume power. DEEP CYCLE batteries are extremely helpfull though, Yellow OR PURPLE TOPS are grweat i have used both in the past for some heavy custom systems i have done. From the hi/lo you go to you input RCA's for the interior speakers the sub RCA you can run of the single in the back of the radio.YOu want to set your interior amp to hi pass at about 125Hz and higher, your sub amp is LO pass 100 Hz and lower. Gain is basically in easy terms your volume. ALSO make sure your OHMS are correct so you dont fry the amp by dropping the resistance toooo low this will harm the amp at hight volume. and try to run your wires (batt) and RCAs on seperate sides of the car so you wont get alternator whine. the high pitch rev sound!!! GOOOD GROUND is a must go to CHASIS... and use a good size power and ground NOT DENTAL FLOSS at least LEAST 8 AWG!!!
GOOD LUCK and definitely look into an UPGRADE DUDE it will save you from numerous headaches in the future TRUST ME!!!! good luck again
By the way a lil on me ive been doing electroics for 15 years so i can give u a soild break down here. And a cheap fix for your 1 RCA issue. 1st thing to get the additioal out puts you need get yourself a hi/lo converter (you'll understand when u get it) DO NOT split that signal from the single RCA bcause if it is for sub Hz will will get extremely poor sound quality. The HI/LO will turn ur radios speakers leads into RCA jacks for your amp. ALTHOUGH if you really wana unpgrade get a lil better radio.. but i do understand BUDGETING LOL...The 1st gen to my knowledge is only a 50 amp alternator REAL BAD for big systems ill give u a quick formaula take the total power consuption (watts in total) and divide it by 13.6 (voltage while car is running) and this will give you your total AMPERAGE DRAW keep in mind at night lights are on the radio is on the heater or AC might be on all these also consume power. DEEP CYCLE batteries are extremely helpfull though, Yellow OR PURPLE TOPS are grweat i have used both in the past for some heavy custom systems i have done. From the hi/lo you go to you input RCA's for the interior speakers the sub RCA you can run of the single in the back of the radio.YOu want to set your interior amp to hi pass at about 125Hz and higher, your sub amp is LO pass 100 Hz and lower. Gain is basically in easy terms your volume. ALSO make sure your OHMS are correct so you dont fry the amp by dropping the resistance toooo low this will harm the amp at hight volume. and try to run your wires (batt) and RCAs on seperate sides of the car so you wont get alternator whine. the high pitch rev sound!!! GOOOD GROUND is a must go to CHASIS... and use a good size power and ground NOT DENTAL FLOSS at least LEAST 8 AWG!!!
GOOD LUCK and definitely look into an UPGRADE DUDE it will save you from numerous headaches in the future TRUST ME!!!! good luck again
10-06-09, 03:28 PM
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P.S. one thing i let out with 900 watts you are already consuming 66 Amps so a capacitor will ONLY HELP for now.. At least 2 Farad. Damaging your electrical system can turn out real expensive at the end.
10-06-09, 04:38 PM
#13
Ohhh dammmm, responses.
I dove in and started testing and wiring since I have the day before the responses were here.
Some of the stuff you guys just explained to me is a third language but I'm sure once I'm involved it'll start to make sense.
So far I powered the front speakers off the headunit. If the headunit is 30w x4 and the speakers I have are 4" 200w's then they're way uner powered huh...? They sound decent enough for a start anyways.
I have a few stupid questions though... Off the back of the radio, say Front L, there's two sets of wires. One has a gray w/a black stripe one is gray solid. Is it safe to assume the one with the black stripe is the negative..?
Then when I get to the speaker the leads aren't labeled positive or negative. I remember back a'looooong ago my buddy showed me a trick using a cordless 12V drill battery. I forget which way the speaker is supposed to push if the polarity was correct though...???
For now I'm just going to hook up a set of front speakers and rears off the radio and use the single channel amp to power the subs w/the gain adjusted so I can still hear the regular speakers powered off the headunit.
Keeping it simple.
I dove in and started testing and wiring since I have the day before the responses were here.
Some of the stuff you guys just explained to me is a third language but I'm sure once I'm involved it'll start to make sense.
So far I powered the front speakers off the headunit. If the headunit is 30w x4 and the speakers I have are 4" 200w's then they're way uner powered huh...? They sound decent enough for a start anyways.
I have a few stupid questions though... Off the back of the radio, say Front L, there's two sets of wires. One has a gray w/a black stripe one is gray solid. Is it safe to assume the one with the black stripe is the negative..?
Then when I get to the speaker the leads aren't labeled positive or negative. I remember back a'looooong ago my buddy showed me a trick using a cordless 12V drill battery. I forget which way the speaker is supposed to push if the polarity was correct though...???
For now I'm just going to hook up a set of front speakers and rears off the radio and use the single channel amp to power the subs w/the gain adjusted so I can still hear the regular speakers powered off the headunit.
Keeping it simple.
10-07-09, 10:22 AM
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for the most part to help ease up the confusion wht is driver side gray is pass green is rear driver purple is your pass rear, red is ACC, yellow is Cons 12, blk is well u know - .. black stipes are - so you got this your right on track. AND good assumption YOU ALWAYS WANT TO push are NOT pull it.
10-07-09, 01:52 PM
#16
This radio had the labels still on them. Last radio I put in wasn't labeled, I just grabbed a pair and put the radio on Front Left, Front Right, etc... until i figured out which was which before hooking things up.
I still didn't hook up the amp and subs. I ran out of speaker wire and need a inline fuse for the power feed.
I still didn't hook up the amp and subs. I ran out of speaker wire and need a inline fuse for the power feed.
10-09-09, 10:27 AM
#18
Yep, ran RCA's and power on different sides. It just worked out that way w/out intentions and then when one of the posts up top mentioned it, I was like ok good tip to know... at least I don't have to fix that.
I switched over to a FC fuse box vs the 1st gen fusible links BS. The only port left was 30a fuse so I grabbed that. Haven't ran the subs yet to see if it'll hold. Still need to get speaker wire to finish up hooking the box to the amp and I'm done. I think*...
The front speakers sound rattel'y. (is that even a word) The magnets were so big on the little 4"er's that they don't fit properly in the hole Mazda allowed for speakers up there. The back of the magnet bottoms out and touches the frame not allowing the front part to not sit flush.... I can't even drop a hole saw in there b/c the otherside where it bottoms out will then be exposed to the underside of the fender. doh' Spacers perhaps. Darn it.
I switched over to a FC fuse box vs the 1st gen fusible links BS. The only port left was 30a fuse so I grabbed that. Haven't ran the subs yet to see if it'll hold. Still need to get speaker wire to finish up hooking the box to the amp and I'm done. I think*...
The front speakers sound rattel'y. (is that even a word) The magnets were so big on the little 4"er's that they don't fit properly in the hole Mazda allowed for speakers up there. The back of the magnet bottoms out and touches the frame not allowing the front part to not sit flush.... I can't even drop a hole saw in there b/c the otherside where it bottoms out will then be exposed to the underside of the fender. doh' Spacers perhaps. Darn it.
10-12-09, 08:37 AM
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The main power for the amp, should be run direclt from the battery and an approprate fuse size also added in line. Dont pull your amps constant from an open fuse link in the car you can cause some serious damage to the car like that. Also 30 amps is not going to be enuff to poweer the amp for long. for what yur doing an 8 AWG wire should be good. but run direclt from the battery with a fuse in between about 6-10 inches from the battery.
10-22-09, 07:41 PM
#21
ohhh dam you think..?? I pulled the amp power off the main fuse box under the hood, not from the little pull fuse types under the dash. The main fusebox is protected by a 80a main fuse and then powers each main circut in the car individually. I took a full space w/nothing else on it for just the amp. The power wire from the battery feeding the fuse block is bigger then the 8awg amp feed and then there is the normal inline fuse still btwn the fuseblock and the amp.
But if you think I should change it then by all means I will.
Also is there a place online to order the 1/2 spacer you speak of..???
Thanks...
But if you think I should change it then by all means I will.
Also is there a place online to order the 1/2 spacer you speak of..???
Thanks...
10-23-09, 10:19 AM
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The spacers you can pick up at any best buy, radio shack, or custom install bay. ONE thing tho is definitely run your own fuse and power wire DIRECTLY to the battery DO NOT use a line from any fuse box or in line fuse of the car. The amp will variate in current draw and you may damage the electrical system of the car or alternator. For your own sake just spend the extra 5-10 minutes and go Directley to the battery POST. Well hope the system on the better half is sounding good post some pics when your done or in the mix of the install. I myself have ALOT of over hauling to do this weekend to my entire FB but pics will be up as soon as i figure these forums out LOL... Well cuz good luk out there.
10-23-09, 12:41 PM
#23
Well at least I can help you back now... Posting pics is super EASY.
Make an account at Photobucket.com, which is super easy and you'll use it where ever you go on the internet not just here.
Copy the img code and paste it here in your reply... It beats having to upload an attachment here where whoevers looking has to click on the link to view the pic.
I'm going to take some pics next time I work on her. A post is always better / more interesting with lots of pics.
Anyway's I still haven't ran the speaker wire to the subs... I ran out wiring up the speakers off the radio and when I went to get more wire, the three places I went wanted ALOT of $$$ and didn't even carry what I was looking for. I think they only had 14 gauge as the biggest wire and it didn't look big enough....? Was I wrong...??? What gauge should I use btwn the amp and subs...?
Make an account at Photobucket.com, which is super easy and you'll use it where ever you go on the internet not just here.
Copy the img code and paste it here in your reply... It beats having to upload an attachment here where whoevers looking has to click on the link to view the pic.
I'm going to take some pics next time I work on her. A post is always better / more interesting with lots of pics.
Anyway's I still haven't ran the speaker wire to the subs... I ran out wiring up the speakers off the radio and when I went to get more wire, the three places I went wanted ALOT of $$$ and didn't even carry what I was looking for. I think they only had 14 gauge as the biggest wire and it didn't look big enough....? Was I wrong...??? What gauge should I use btwn the amp and subs...?
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