SPOautos

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone in here is good with fiberglass or carbon fiber? I'm sure there are a few in here.

Anyway, I want to redo my alum airduct in fiberglass are cf to make it nice and curvy instead of having a bunch of angles with welds. I also want to try making a air duct box.

I've never worked with either product but I've seen it done here and there over the years. I was just hoping someone could give me some info on exactly what all I would need and a little how to or some tips. Just a link to the info would be good even. I just cant seem to find anything that really goes into detail.

Any help would be appreciated!!!!

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Damn I've been looking around at some different sites that sell figerglass stuff and all that and all I can say is ****, there are all kinds of resins, epoxies, weights of fabrics, ect, ect, ect

I have NO idea what I need!!!!!

Can someone give me a shopping list???? For making this stuff in fiberglass or carbon fiber, I think everything would be the same except for the fiber, how hard is one over the other to use???

Thanks,
STEPHEN

E6KT2

I do custom composite work. Do you have any pictures? If you wish to email me, my addy is huklbery78@aol.com

SPOautos

Well normally I would prob find someone to just do this for me but I'm doing a ton of stuff to my car right now including a new motor and turbos so funds are limited. I've also been wanting to learn fiberglass / carbon fiber for a long time now and I figure this will be a good start.

I really just want to get as much info as I can. Things like what I need to buy and some how too pages. I found one pretty decent how too page but it didnt talk about what products to get.

Thanks for the offer though,
STEPHEN

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I can build damn near anything out of fiberglass. Some basic things you will need are; rubber gloves, fiberglass mat, fiberglass resin and hardener, paint brushes (the cheap $0.59 ones from Home Depot work great) and a mixing bowl. I make molds out of blue high density styrofoam but you have to coat it with something since fiberglass will eat through it. I wrap it in masking tape and then coat it with a release agent such as carnauba wax. I use the blue foam since it easily sands to any shape you want and its cheap. It only comes in about half inch thick sheets but I stack them with white glue. After the fiberglass is hardened around the mold, pour acetone through the middle to dissolve the foam. Then just reach in and pull out the tape. I have many other techniques but I use this one when I make duct work on my cars.

shaun.sheldrake

A few extras to get to make your life easy ..

Food prep gloves : don't do anything without them!
Digital scales : great for ensuring you get the mixture right.
Parka nylon : applied at the end to soak up excess resin and helps to create a better/smoother suface to the end product.

To create a re-useable mould, build the mould from MDF board in the same way rotarygod describes with the foam then paint it when you're happy with it .. wax it and then you'll be able to pop off some extra ones to sell to your mates and recover the cost of each project.

There is also a good step by step for flat panels here - http://www.bryanf.com/info/carbon.htm

Important to make sure that the resin you use is one that's designed to deal with engine bay temps .. most standard marine resins are not .. talk to west systems I think they have one suitable .. it's a bit more expensive but you don't want your styly carbon work collapsing on you!

Cheers
Shaun

SPOautos

Hey man thanks alot, what kind of place do you check out for the styrofoam???

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Hey man, thanks for the info, I've got a couple questions for you though. 1st isnt the MDS real hard to stape and take forever to sand down and make smooth? Also, what kind of store do you get Parka nylon at???

Thanks a ton!!!!
STEPHEN

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I buy everything from Johnson Resin in Houston. As far as the styrofoam goes I just go by new home construction sites. Its the same stuff they put in walls. The mdf would work good for a reusable mold like shaun said.

SPOautos

In my area I've never seen them use styrofoam in walls or homes. They just use regular insulation. Maybe I can find a place that sells big styrofoam blocks.

Ok, here are a couple questions I have that hopefully you guys can help me with.

Lets say I'm building something that due to the shape will be easier to make in 2 pieces then put the 2 together to form one piece. When should I pull them 2 off the molt and attache them and how whould I attach them? I figure it has to be partialy cured or else it will collapse when I take it off the mold but I dont think it can be all the way cured can it? I'm not sure if this will be carbon fiber or fiberglass.

Also what about the edges? I read that I should cut the fabric a couple inches longer than I need. Do I then just apply resin to the area I need then cut off the exess fabric? If so how will I get the edges to look nice and clean.....just apply resin over the edges? I think with fiberglass it'll be easy I guess my main concern is with carbon fiber.

Now I feel like I'm getting somewhere....thanks a ton guys!!!!!
STEPHEN

SPOautos

rotarygod - I forgot one thing......you mentioned you've done a bunch of car parts like air ducts and such. What weight and type cloth and resin have you found works good and hold up under the hood???

Thanks man,
STEPHEN

wptrx7

check out:

selectproducts.com


luigi

Rated R1

www.fiberlay.com <---excellent customer service and very knowledgeable

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

The blue (or green) styrofoam I use isn't a replacement for home insulation. They use it on outside walls just before the brick,siding,etc. go on.

Select products is a good source for both carbon fiber and fiberglass like wptrx7 said.

Since I make molds out of foam I don't ever have to worry about making something in 2 pieces. I can completely glass around any shape and then pour acetone through it to eat the foam out. Then just run a hose through it.

I have used many different thickness mats. I forget the exact oz. designation but the thin woven stuff works great for the first 1 or 2 layers as well as a finishing layer. The kitty hair I like to use in the middle for strength.

Fiberglass holds up well to heat. You could probably build an intake manifold out of it if you had to. The big concern comes when you have thin pieces. Fiberglass doesn't like to hold its shape over about 150 degrees. I'm not saying it will just bend and disintegrate because it won't but thin sections will deform. If you have different areas that were done at different times and then joined this is usually when their joint will appear. A different amount of hardener from one batch to another results in different expansion/contraction rates.

A new technique I have been playing with is to use certain epoxy resins instead of fiberglass resins. You still use the fiberglass mat though. The epoxy (not all of them) does not eat through the styrofoam so cleanup becomes easier since I don't have to coat it with anything to prevent this. Also, most epoxies are rated at well over 400+ degrees before any major problems arise. This is in essence what many auto manufacturers make their manifolds out of, composites. Note they are not using the exact same thing I am referring to. It is only a similar principle. It is more expensive and harder to obtain.

Carbon fiber is a little more tricky to work with. fiberglass cloth stretches and bends quite easily but cf does not. It is a pain. The easy way to do it is to build the whole thing out of fiberglass and sand it down and then use a final layer in carbon fiber for effect.

SPOautos

Ok, so basically I need to try to get a design that I can do as one piece instead of 2. I think I'm going to make my first one out of styrofoam like you suggested since its so easy to work with and I will make it in one piece. The only thing is after the first one if it works good I'm probably going to need a hard mold or someway of reproducing in easier. I wont be able to create a mold everytime I need to reproduct it. I'm not sure how this will fit into the design cause I seems like I'll pretty much need to make it into 2 peices then combine them some how......maybe I can rething my design cause I dont want it to show joints or have weak spots.

Thanks for the info on the styrofoam, I know exactly what your talking about now. Its like the backing to siding....I think its about 1" thick and as you said cheap.

You info about epoxy resin was great and very useful, I read on a few sites that they were also using epoxt resins and figured thats what I would try so it good to know I was heading in the right direction.

I was also thinking about making it in fiberglass then laying a final sheet of carbon fiber over it but I wasnt sure if that would work very well. I'm glad to see it will work. I got the idea from a guy on the forum that wraps dash parts in carbonfiber and it looks great so I figured I could do the same with the air ducts and intakes.

You've been a great help to me (as well as you other guys) and I appreciate it. The only other thing I'm not sure about was my question about making the edges clean. It said on one of the sites to cut the cloth a couple inches longer than needed. How will that work or is it correct? Seems like if that was done it would be hard to cut off the exess and make it look right. Do you just trim it then touch up the edges with more resin. Anyway, I think thats my last question.....till I get going anyway haha

Thanks so much for the help!!!!
STEPHEN

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Just clean up the edges by being careful in the first place and sand them down or grind them down when you are done. I use air tools alot so its quick. Wear a mask.