This question goes out to anyone who ever thought about installing an aftermarket EMS on any kind of car and had to choose between systems or configuration.

Would you:

A. Get a fuel only ECU and an old styled ignition system (distributor) and not have control over the ignition, or set it up to work like stock, on a race engine?

B. Get a full stand alone that gave you control of all of the engines parameters, using a distributorless ignition system for better performance?

I post this because i have a client who wants to go with option A because his engine builder (from Puerto Rico) is advising on that route.

What do you guys think?

 

Burned out / inconsistent points?
Although direct fire is more expensive to set-up (more coils to buy), it's way more reliable and accurate.
Do you really want to mess with dwell again?


-Ted

 

I dont understand your comment RETed, i konw the answer to this question, its just that these guys are bent on runing a circuit racing RX-7 with an old distributor and an F10X fuel ony computer. Im just posting this to prove a point.

 

Unfortunately, I am old enough to fully understand RETed's comment. I find it interesting that you do not understand it, as you probably also do not understand bias-ply tires, leaf springs, dial telephones, and televisions without remote controls. Anyway, if your client wants to live in the stone age, then you should let him. Lots of people want their personal car to have the same items they see on race cars, not realizing that racing class rules sometimes restrict modern technology. Think of it as aesthetics.

BTW, my dwell meter has been collecting dust in the closet for years. I hope I will never need to use that thing again.

 

What's that supposed to mean?! ::angry:: Im 30...
I am old enough to understand what he means, i too used all the things you mentioned, but your answer still made more sense, i honestly know that is the case, but its really frustating sometimes to see people that still want to live in 1960.

 

His comment about burned out/ inconsistent points is refering to the point contacts inside of a distributor that get burned out because they are constantly subjected to the high intensity spark traveling across them. The inconsistency is that they aren't always as accurate at delivering spark as the newer solid state systems which are ECU controlled. Dwell is the amount of time the points are closed (they don't actually touch, they just get close enough to cause an arch). ECUs that control spark timing and ignition advance are much easier to program via computer instead of messing with a distributor cap and rotor.

You discriptions and diagrams here

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

Oh, and I would go full swap.

 

No need to get rough in here guys.
Initially I thought I had written it up wrong, as I was typing this out at like 3am in the morning.
Claudio RX-7's reply got me confused, but I thought it was miscommunication on my part.

A lot of racers understand what K.I.S.S. means - it could be why they are hell-bent on keeping with a distributor.
It is a much simpler system with less components - i.e. one coil versus a multi-coil set-up.

Anytime someone mentioned "racing", I assume it's a high budget affair, and a direct fire ignition system is not something that is labeled as "too expensive" to design and execute.


-Ted

 

Well, lets just stay on track here, the original question is, what is your opinion on an EMS for any given car. Do you go full EMS, and control everything, or do you half *** it with a distributor.

A. Depends on the application?
B. Depends on the budget?
C. Depends on the knowledge you have?
D. Depends on what "the other guy is doing"?
E. Any other reason?

My own personal choice, full EMS, total, control of both fuel and timing, and additional options if possible, we dont need to forget the 1960's, we just need to learn from them and move on and embrase new technology, regardless of application. Although, sometimes, some people cant afford something like that, at least where i come from.

Besides, the most powerful, best performance cars i know of use the best EMS they can find.

 

A. Depends on the application?
I can't think of any reason for that other than race class rules.

B. Depends on the budget?
The price difference is negligible when compared to the other costs involved in racing. In fact, converting a 13B RX-7 to use a distributor may even cost more than buying a full EMS and using the stock ignition system.

C. Depends on the knowledge you have?
Absolutely. A car with a poorly-tuned EMS is going to lose to the same car with a well-tuned fuel computer and distributor. Sorry, but IMO the tuning makes more difference than most other factors. However, the ignition is so easy to set up on an EMS, I don't see how anybody could possibly have trouble setting it up. All of the confusing parts of an EMS have to do with the fuel transients and initial configuration.

I think the main factor is that an EMS tuner may have trouble setting up a distributor system. I don't think it is a good idea for anybody to allow their car to be the guinea pig for their tuner unless given no other choice. This is why you always see me posting that the best EMS to get is the one that the tuner knows how to use. IMO this is more important than getting a slightly better EMS that the tuner is going to screw up.

D. Depends on what "the other guy is doing"?
That makes a lot of difference to some people.

E. Any other reason?
The customer is always right. Many professional tuners turn down jobs that they don't agree with. Tinkering with an underfunded ghetto project can result in the tuner getting a bad reputation when the ghetto parts fail, even if it isn't the tuner's fault. I think it is better to let another shop ruin the customer's car to their liking rather than deal with something that you don't believe in and you know isn't going to work worth beans.

 

This has got to be the most important think to consider. Here where i live this is mostly the case, and to top things off the owners think that the tuner doesnt know what he is doing, or that some other person 1000 miles away who has a car that is doing well in the 1/4mile is his best source of information.

Honestly its my oppinion that who ever tries to use a distributor and a carburator is because of what you say, its the best/only thing he knows how to tinker with.

Well, im honeslty going to have to get my car updated with all the correct and modern go fast toys to just show everybody here how its done.

We also have a saying "he who does not know is like being blind", thanks for your feedback guys.