When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
With the help of Skeese, C. Ludwig, and a few other great engineering minds, I'm going to take a crack at the Haltech ESP software and the Haltech 2500 Elite. Now, if anyone knows me, you're going to be laughing your *** off thinking, "This guy hates Haltech. He wants nothing to do with them. I wonder if he's going to blend it?"
******* Skeese, you ***. You have somehow convinced me (through practice and open-ended software capabilities), that my chosen path which we were both on the same page for, has fallen short of the design intention for my build. Truly, it has, and this will be the way to go, no doubt.
So, without copying and pasting my entire build on here, let me do a quick rundown of the gameplan for the 1983 Mazda Rx7 set up for Gran Touring:
Direct Fire IGN-1A Coils w/ Negative Trailing Split for Cruise/Idle
Borg Warner EFR9174 with 1.00 A/R and Internally Wastegated Routed to a custom Divorced Downpipe (4" main, 2.5" wastegate and merged roughly 18" after flange)
Flex Fuel E85 - I want reliability as I beat the **** out of it, and versatility of filling up in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
A completely built chassis designed to handle 600whp *Done*
No fusible links, all VEC: Relays and Circuit Breakers
Traction Control, Boost By Gear, Power Steering Assist by Speed, Air Conditioning, Luxury, Comfort, etc.
This is a design experiment for me to test my worth in this industry. I've been around enough fakers to know who actually does the work and who's here to break new ground.
Odd, it won't let me post my basemap on here due to the Haltech Software File Type not being recognized. Anyways, I do have a basemap for anyone looking to do a similar setup.
Good god man about time. I'd say welcome to the dark side, but it's really just the side where ECU's actually so what they are supposed to do...everytime, correctly. I've been so busy I haven't had time to help out here, but hopefully soon. There is so much that can be done with this thing it's unreal.
And most importantly this ecu isnt an experiment.
Good stuff man. Glad you finally saw the light.
Skeese
Last edited by Skeese; 05-10-17 at 06:27 PM.
Reason: Spelling
Good god man about time. I'd say welcome to the dark side, but it's really just the side where ECU's actually so what they are supposed to do...everytime, correctly. I've been so busy I haven't had time to help out here, but hopefully soon. There so much can be done with this thing it's unreal.
And most importantly this ecu isnt an experiment.
Good stuff man. Glad you finally saw the light.
Skeese
I honestly wouldn't be where I'm at now without ******* friends like you around... "Tune your own car, you're not a jackass." I know to admit when I'm wrong. This software makes perfect sense and has excellent features.
I'm excited to see what we can do after your wedding and my finals. This summer is going to be EVIL!
So whats the experiment part? Just you doing it yourself? (Join the club!)
If you zip the basemap you can post the Zip
I was referring to the ECU's on the market that are, in comparison, a software development experiment. This one isn't. It's a refined solid product, developed by a company that doesn't use social media to derive tuning solutions.
Tuning one yourself isn't an experiment if you know what you're doing.
just FYI, VE tuning already take into consideration of air temp and barometric fuel corrections, so if you have those on, you're doing it double-duty. unless you wanted to over-correct for some reason.
I agree this ECU is just awesome. yinz gotta start playing with the TCS. It becomes a whole new beast.
just FYI, VE tuning already take into consideration of air temp and barometric fuel corrections, so if you have those on, you're doing it double-duty. unless you wanted to over-correct for some reason.
I agree this ECU is just awesome. yinz gotta start playing with the TCS. It becomes a whole new beast.
So adding another MAP sensor isn't necessary? :P Makes sense as we're purely talking mass and volume engine parameter calculations.
Skeese, that comment was in regards to the title of this thread. It's an experiment for ME to get into engine tuning. I'm also willing to push this little car well beyond it's traction capacity just to see what happens.
So adding another MAP sensor isn't necessary? :P Makes sense as we're purely talking mass and volume engine parameter calculations.
Skeese, that comment was in regards to the title of this thread. It's an experiment for ME to get into engine tuning. I'm also willing to push this little car well beyond it's traction capacity just to see what happens.
You would need separate MAP sensor if you want to use onboard pressure sensor for barometric sensor. I was referring to your barometric and air temp fuel compensation tables. You don't need them unless you want to over or under correct on top of VE compensation.
You would need separate MAP sensor if you want to use onboard pressure sensor for barometric sensor. I was referring to your barometric and air temp fuel compensation tables. You don't need them unless you want to over or under correct on top of VE compensation.
For Air Temp Correction, wouldn't you normally treat it as a safety measure for a heatsoaked intake charge? Adding X amount of extra fuel if IAT goes beyond some value, and increase it's extra fuel until safer conditions are met.
This feature would probably never come into effect with my huge investment in heat exchangers and ducting work, BUT, for someone who has a top mount intercooler, it's a lifesaver.
I understand that it would be chasing around, but I also think it's necessary if you live in a hot climate or some place where you can have 50+F degree temperature swings and your IAT flops around.
Havoc: Nope, I don't even have an assembled car yet. The main tables are going to be reworked by Skeese and I'm not sure if he's allowing it to be public record like the start of this map. As far as I'm concerned, that's entirely up to him and HIS intellectual property. I only hope to shape everything up until that point.
Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 05-11-17 at 10:36 AM.
just FYI, VE tuning already take into consideration of air temp and barometric fuel corrections, so if you have those on, you're doing it double-duty. unless you wanted to over-correct for some reason.
I agree this ECU is just awesome. yinz gotta start playing with the TCS. It becomes a whole new beast.
Man I saw your thread on how the TCS system works with those sensors. Very well done and well thought out, I'll definitely be implementing the same when I get to that point.
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
So adding another MAP sensor isn't necessary? :P Makes sense as we're purely talking mass and volume engine parameter calculations.
Skeese, that comment was in regards to the title of this thread. It's an experiment for ME to get into engine tuning. I'm also willing to push this little car well beyond it's traction capacity just to see what happens.
Ha I just realized I missed "experiment" in the title. My use of experiment was totally separate from that, but my statements still stand
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
For Air Temp Correction, wouldn't you normally treat it as a safety measure for a heatsoaked intake charge? Adding X amount of extra fuel if IAT goes beyond some value, and increase it's extra fuel until safer conditions are met.
This feature would probably never come into effect with my huge investment in heat exchangers and ducting work, BUT, for someone who has a top mount intercooler, it's a lifesaver.
I understand that it would be chasing around, but I also think it's necessary if you live in a hot climate or some place where you can have 50+F degree temperature swings and your IAT flops around.
Havoc: Nope, I don't even have an assembled car yet. The main tables are going to be reworked by Skeese and I'm not sure if he's allowing it to be public record like the start of this map. As far as I'm concerned, that's entirely up to him and HIS intellectual property. I only hope to shape everything up until that point.
Its a good thing you have a ways to go before actually implementing a tune file into the car. I'm pretty much swamped through June but if I survive that far I'll be in the clear going forward.
As I had talked about with Ryan before, I'm working to move away from using a MAP X RPM based fuel table and instead using a TPS X RPM table in combination with a boost correction table effectively eliminating the transient throttle issues we encounter with MAP load based tuning. I will also benefit from this as my motor is super ported and its hard to get a solid consistent MAP reading during vacuum conditions.
Let's all be real....using a predictable map table for transient throttle is a farce...at best.
I still want to use a MAP load source for ignition timing and target AFR tables. To me, AFR is relevant to boost pressure and the rpm/rate at which the air is being ingested into the motor and consumed so it only makes sense to retain a MAP x RPM table for this. As for ignition timing, there are too many reasons to list as to why TPS x RPM with additional ignition trim compensation would be a bad idea, or at least to me it seems that way.
I've never tuned anything that didn't use MAP load sensing so this is new to me and there isn't a ton of information about it online that I deem credible. I'm still doing research and processing each function in my mind as to how I foresee it best operating together, but I definitely think this is the route to go.
As for public record...I'll always good to discuss setup, theory, testing, methods, whatever and plan to release a well thought-out TPS load sensing basemap made to be easily tailored to suite the common mods of a typical single turbo FD for those who wish to try this method.
BUT.
Beyond that...the super secret sauce must remain semi-super-secret. I really hate the social world of today where every copy and paste idiot has their opinion, but doesn't know **** other than what they lazily stole from a real thinker like me, Ryan, and you Stickman.
Very cool stuff. After wiring up and doing a base tune on a 750 I'm pretty much sold on running a 2500 in my FD if/when I get passed the body prep/engine install :P It's a GIANT leap compared to their older Platinum products (and if you wanna go WAY back their 'E' series ECUs).
With regards to Alpha-N and boost correction map it should be fairly straight forward. I've now tuned 2 periph 20Bs using purely Alpha-N (one on an M600, the other a Platinum Sport) and what I will say is that initially both engines were acting a little finicky but once I found their happy place it was always repeatable (though a little less accurate?) whereas on the latest map based/supercharged 20B iteration took far more passes even after I thought we were solid.
Also since these all were initially tuned on an engine dyno there was obviously drivability problems. With the Alpha-N setups I was able to get all of the issues solved in less than an hour in the pits, the boosted car...not so much.
Looking forward to watching the build.
P.S. Have you played around with the Smartwire integration with Haltech products? I really hated their IQ3 software when I was working with it. Its making me want to move towards a PDM15 or PDM30. Thanks.
Last edited by dguy; 05-11-17 at 01:34 PM.
Reason: PDM shit.
Very cool stuff. After wiring up and doing a base tune on a 750 I'm pretty much sold on running a 2500 in my FD if/when I get passed the body prep/engine install :P It's a GIANT leap compared to their older Platinum products (and if you wanna go WAY back their 'E' series ECUs).
With regards to Alpha-N and boost correction map it should be fairly straight forward. I've now tuned 2 periph 20Bs using purely Alpha-N (one on an M600, the other a Platinum Sport) and what I will say is that initially both engines were acting a little finicky but once I found their happy place it was always repeatable (though a little less accurate?) whereas on the latest map based/supercharged 20B iteration took far more passes even after I thought we were solid.
Also since these all were initially tuned on an engine dyno there was obviously drivability problems. With the Alpha-N setups I was able to get all of the issues solved in less than an hour in the pits, the boosted car...not so much.
Looking forward to watching the build.
P.S. Have you played around with the Smartwire integration with Haltech products? I really hated their IQ3 software when I was working with it. Its making me want to move towards a PDM15 or PDM30. Thanks.
As for the PDM, you have to consider my build restraints. I want everything built and complete, including the cost of the car for $12k. I'm right on target and ******* killin' the game here with the majority of people able to attain half of what I have for twice as much. Personally, I went with a Bussmann 31000 VEC, a BlueSea Circuit Breaker Block, and Two Mini-ANL Fuse Blocks. That and Weatherpacks, and I'll be able to safely rewire the whole car, as intended. If you haven't checked out my build videos and log in my signature, take a look. Some of it is pretty cool, I think.
As for the PDM, you have to consider my build restraints. I want everything built and complete, including the cost of the car for $12k. I'm right on target and ******* killin' the game here with the majority of people able to attain half of what I have for twice as much. Personally, I went with a Bussmann 31000 VEC, a BlueSea Circuit Breaker Block, and Two Mini-ANL Fuse Blocks. That and Weatherpacks, and I'll be able to safely rewire the whole car, as intended. If you haven't checked out my build videos and log in my signature, take a look. Some of it is pretty cool, I think.
Word, I understand the build constraints and props on hitting the budget. I'll be proof of concepting everything using a boatload of relays as well until I solidify every component. My biggest concern is how well the two talk via CAN to be honest (if at all). I'm pretty disappointed that, from what I understand, I'm going to be restricted to Haltech CAN based expansion products.
For example: I'll basically have to run 2 TC4s instead of a Racegrade TC8 for all of my thermocouples. Weak.
I'd be interested to know how manual injector staging works with a TPS load sensing fuel table since on the platinum sport you can't run staged injection in VE and are limited to tuning fuel in injector ms and MAP compensation is separate.
I'd be interested to know how manual injector staging works with a TPS load sensing fuel table since on the platinum sport you can't run staged injection in VE and are limited to tuning fuel in injector ms and MAP compensation is separate.
Skeese
This was an NA periph running 3 id1300s so I never had to worry about staging. Sorry I can't be of more help.
curious why you picked the 9174 and IWG, and a big downpipe are you worried about boost creep?
No, I won't be using the Borg Warner turbine housing, so boost creep shouldn't be an issue. I have a 1.00 A/R vs. the 0.92 A/R, and a larger area in which my wastegates can expel the excess gasses.
A 9174 with Aluminum CHRA was cheaper to build than anything else I wanted. This also gives me a manageable powerband in which I'm known to drive in a Jekyll and Hyde fashion. For Grand Touring, I need power at times, and cruising other times. Agility in the canyons, then comfort in the ride home.
This will also be a Dual 3 Port MAC setup, and everything is converted to -3AN Carbon Kevlar lines. None of this vacuum leak/collapsed silicone/burnt rubber bullshit.
Exhaust will be a 3.5" downpipe to a 3.5" full straight through design with 3-4 mufflers and hopefully a center exit at the factory license plate area with downturn. I actually wonder if using the "0" for an exhaust opening on my license plate is a legal thing for "SN0BX-7".
and the boost by gear, how do you plan to implement the gear sensor?
why not do boost by speed? it'll be easier isn't it.
Yea, I guess you're right. I just want to have a front wheel speed sensor communicate with the transmission speed sensor so it knows when I have wheel slip. The transmission will not have gear selector sensors. Good correction, thank you.
Yea, I guess you're right. I just want to have a front wheel speed sensor communicate with the transmission speed sensor so it knows when I have wheel slip. The transmission will not have gear selector sensors. Good correction, thank you.
The ECU calculates gear position based on speed v RPM. It works very well.
Exhaust will be a 3.5" downpipe to a 3.5" full straight through design with 3-4 mufflers and hopefully a center exit at the factory license plate area with downturn. I actually wonder if using the "0" for an exhaust opening on my license plate is a legal thing for "SN0BX-7".
I think the only thing that would fit through the 0 would be stock honda or hybrid exhausts.
No where near the size of your 3.5" exhaust size.
05-09-17, 08:34 PM
The main tables are going to be reworked by Skeese and I'm not sure if he's allowing it to be public record like the start of this map. As far as I'm concerned, that's entirely up to him and HIS intellectual property. I only hope to shape everything up until that point.
Some of it is pretty cool, I think.
