Jarik

Dunno whether you sorted this out, but I think I have the same problem.

Do you get it when you log all channels?

I have a feeling it is because you need to log Fuel Load and Ignition Load instead of just MAP. Even though they should be the same, technically your X-axis is the latter two for those tables, not MAP. So if you don't log it, you don't have that data to plot it on the table.

1.
From my understanding, based on the manifold pressure, air temperature and volumetric efficiency, the engine calculates how much air should theoretically enter the engine. Then it calculates how much fuel is required to meet the AFR target. It then calculates how much duty cycle it needs to provide to the injectors to provide this fuel - this is where the fuel pressure comes into play, as higher pressure = more flow for the same pulse width.

Higher pressure will reduce the flow of your pumps however. Most injectors and pump flows are usually quoted at 300kPa (43.5psi), which is the standard.

2.
Theoretically, you could change your fuel pressure setting to compensate. In other words, turn your pressure up on your regulator, then in the Haltech settings, set it to like 400kPa (not sure if it's linear, so you may need to play with it). But you should theoretically find the value where it all works out again.

Havoc

hey mate,

Ive not looked at it again but its done the timing issue replay error a few times now. I log all output (I have the lappy in the car when I go for a cruise) so no issued their.

In regards to the fuel, Im just doing the VE map again, was roughly a 20% but the angles in the VE map are different now. Not a biggie just need more time on the road to get it fixed.

Jarik

It's actually one of the features I'm a bit disappointed the Haltech didn't include.

On the Megasquirt, if you're running a fuel pressure sensor, I believe you can use that as an input for the fuel model calculations - so you're using an actual value instead of calculated value based on what you set your base fuel pressure to be.

Means you don't run into situations like this where your setting and your actual are different, so you have to go retune everything again.

Havoc

Agreed.

But in hindsight its my fault for not checking the setting were right. Still my tuner didn't pick it either! ...

Jarik

Yeah, fair enough.

It does highlight one of the benefits of a VE method vs a "traditional" tuning method. If you set it up properly at the start, theoretically, you can make big changes to your system - injector size, fuel pressure, etc - and not have to retune your VE tables as long as your manifold and ports remain the same.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

You can build a 4th axis or a separate comp map for fuel pressure. You can also add pressure to your injector characterization. So, Haltech didn't leave it out.

Jarik

Sure, but it's still a compensation that you have to tune. In the actual calculations that happen in the back end, it will still be using the value in your "Base Fuel Pressure" setting.

You could argue it still gives the same result, but there's a bit more work involved in setting it up. Seems like it's wasting one of the possible benefits of using a VE model in the first place (that is, being able to model the system properly as a sum of individual components and parameters, and hence be able to more easily account for changes to any one of them without retuning).

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Pressure correction would need to be done through injector characterization. Since different injectors react differently to pressure changes, a generic overall trim based on pressure would not be correct.

Havoc

Chris and Jarik, Thanks for that info. I really enjoy the commentary and different thoughts.

Really it's a bloody complex ecu and can do way more that what I want. If you know what to ask it.

I do have fuel pressure on my Defi's but I think I'm going to add a fuel pressure sensor for the haltech and update that info intot he injector parameters as I think its useful. I'd also like to think if I did have a fuel pressure failure the ECU would then pick up on it before I kill the donk.

But had a cruise on Saturday and got the map back to a good point. Really I've only gone to 3psi boost to date and I think I need to get a dyno to do it right.


Mantrx7 Cruising about tuning

Still having a lot of fun learning about all the in's and out's or tuning.

Havoc

Also off topic.

For those that are using Megalog Viewer as well (Really I just use it to interogate my logs). As the haltech doesnt export the data the way the software wants it, I make these custom calculations. Really this is for reference. As I'm not use to using Kpa or Lambda.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I downloaded this haltech 2500 basemap and the latest software gave me a compatibity error about it having been developed using an older version than the newest V2.00.26. I emailed haltech asking for a more current version, however don't have a reply yet.

Anyone else get this error or have the updated map? I'd start a new thread but seems this is where it's already been/being discussed.

Skeese

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Import the map.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Wait, why do you want fuel pressure compensation on a return fuel system with port injection? If the regulator is working correctly the pressure difference across the injector is always the base pressure unless it is an odd ball rising rate. So you don't need compensation. That's one of the reasons why you use a return fuel system in the first place. You just need good fuel lines, rails, etc.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Actually, the problem is most likely that you haven't downloaded the definitions for the older maps. Use ESP Online to update the definitions.

Havoc

Skeese,

When I had all those issues it was before haltech released the "official" basemaps. My FFE trigger issue looked like was a patch issue. Once I updated I got signal.

RGHTBrainDesign

I still can't seem to get my ESP Online Verification Code emailed to me yet...

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

760-598-1941 US office. Call them.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Thanks, will do. I need to spend more time exploring all the side functions of the software outside of just the tuning interface. I was mostly just looking for a basemap that had general I/O settings as close to my application as possible so i didn't have to change everything as well as oem sensor calibrations for the ones I still have but don't have datasheets on. I don't so much care about the tuning maps as I'll be redoing everything since my car is a far stretch from being anywhere near capable of running on values that drive a stock-ish FD.

Thanks for the quick shipping. The ECU will be here Thursday and I've got a 3 day weekend, so I'll be moving onto tuning really soon. I'll likely start another thread as what I'm doing will be unique, but this thread has alot of solid info I'll be using, so thanks to all.

Skeese

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

I didn't put the name on that order together with you until now. If you need help getting the ECU configured, don't hesitate to ask me for help. Email is best but I can get on the phone with you too.

RGHTBrainDesign

Thank you, Chris.

Australia handles the ESP Online registration, so as long as you call this number after 7pm CST, it'll auto-forward to Australia with no charge to speak internationally.

I'll try them later today.

Havoc

Afternoon all.

So got another cruise in on the weekend before I got the car dropped off the panel shop (getting a scratch fixed up)

Im slowly taking the car into boost. But I don't trust myself yet to go to hard (I know im being conservative!)

Just some questions im sure are simple that I dont understand.


Closed loop boost control:
So in open loop 40% duty did great boost control for me

In close the map below worked fine as well.

BUT: now that Im trying to not fully boost (just up to 7psi max for now) I can hear my WG opening?



So.. I must have something wrong in the map or the settings. I thought 100% was 100% closed but I must be wrong should this all be reversed?


Idle control:

So I run DBW. and Ive had it idle lower. But Im curious why my idle is set to 1000rpm. But the DWB is making it sit at about 1500?



Stumble

Lastly I find a small stumble on instant of takeofff. which is interesting I didn't have before I changed (upped the fuel pressure - change the dead times - changes the injector flow data - auto air temp corrections)

Im guessing this is deadtime thing? I dont really know enough about this yet..



Anyway my current tune and datalog attached - just FYI and so I can look back on in a years time

Havoc

Im guessing on the Close boost that the 100 must be fully open so its just back to front. should be an easy fix

stickmantijuana

iTrader: (1)

your closed loop map isn't set up correctly.

whatever boost level the 40% got you, put that under the target boost column.

whatever below that should be below 40%. whatever above it should be above 40% to reach desired boost level.

I basically copy/paste solenoid duty cycle map for 6 psi, 9 psi, and 12 psi individually with PID settings off. (or you can do it under open loop.) put that under closed loop setting under 6, 9, and 12psi.

thanks for the reply to my pm. can you provide the link? I didn't get it..

Jarik

Apologies for delay in response - it's not for normal operating conditions, it's for when things go abnormal. Eg, in my case, I was pushing the OEM fuel pump past it's limit and fuel pressure was dropping at high flow (up to 10-15kPa below expect fuel pressure). This can also be the case for a fuel pressure reg which isn't 1:1, you get a mild fuel leak, etc.

If you're referencing an actual measured fuel pressure value in your tune, then this won't actually affect your AFRs, as the ECU will compensate by increasing duty cycle times. Without that feature, you will lean.

You're most likely correct, but I think you've mixed up how to use the base duty cycle table. Depends how you've connected your boost solenoid, but assuming you're running a standard 3 port MAC in its standard configuration, and connected like this:


Then a value of 100% will hold the wastegate closed = builds boost.

Think you have misunderstood the purpose of the base duty cycle tables. The columns are boost targets - not current measured MAP. Each column refers to what you have set in the Boost Target table and will only be enabled when that is set.




The best way to configure it IMO is this (and please correct me if I am wrong, I am actually in the same stage of tuning boost myself for the first time):

Disable Closed Loop (but stay in Closed Loop Mode)
1. Set all P, I and D values to zero (disable close loop)

Tune Base Tables
2. Set all values in your base duty cycle table to 0%
3. Let's choose a boost target to tune. Let's say, 15psi. Go to your Boost Target table and set everything to 15psi.
4. In your Base Duty Cycle Table, slowly increase all cells in the 15psi column (across that rpm range) until you hit 15psi at least one part of the rpm range. This column is the only one that matters at the moment, because that's your boost target (all other columns are disabled).
5. Now change the other cells in that column until you hit 15psi in all of those cells.
6. In the areas where you're still spooling, increase the duty cycle to 100% - but be careful on the spool point, because you may overboost there on a cool day where the turbo manifold is warm
7. Do this for all the other columns. So set the boost target to 10psi and in the 10psi column, tune it to 10psi. For the 13psi target tune to 13psi column. etc.
8. This means all the columns in the LEFT of your table should be set to 0% duty cycle - not 100%. Duty cycles should increase as you go from left to right in that table. Opposite of what you've done.

Re-enable Closed Loop
9. Now that you've set your open loop table, restore the PID settings.
10. Now set your boost targets in the closed loop boost targets table to what you want.