Syritis

iTrader: (2)

OK so even thought i don't have a lot of info i thought i'd throw this out to see if you guys could give me some opinions of where to start.

specs:
E6x
ls1 coils (waste spark leads)
MSD magnicore custom wires
NGK 9's platinum plugs
to4s 16 psi
94 pump gas

story:
start of the season had my car dyno tuned. ran great for the first half of the season. end of july we had an event that was nearly rained out. so lots of standing water. I put my all season tires on just for a few fun laps. 2 laps in my car pretty much goes dead. revs fine but falls dead under any boost. figured i fouled the plugs as they were due anyways. I replaced the plugs and wires. next time out the car runs great for 2 laps, the progressively a hesitation develops at exactly 5000rpm and 5 psi. in first gear i barely notice the hesitation, 2nd gear it fairly evident, 3rd, 4th and 5 gear the boost drops to 1-2 psi the AFR goes off the lean end and the car has no power until it reaches 5500rpm in which case it's perfectly fine again. next time in the pits i pulled the plugs and wire brushed them, and new silicone. same thing as before, i get 2 laps before the hesitation reappears.
because i can go "over" 5000rpm so quickly in 1st and 2nd gear makes me think it's not mechanical. must be the tuning somewhere. plugged in the laptop. ignition lock is off and there is no particular features in the tune at 5000rpm that would cause any doubt. playing with the tuning made no difference so i stayed with the tuning from the dyno (the tune that did work)
I finished up the season pushing the car into redline a little more so the shifts wouldn't drop the rpm down to 5000. and didn't have a problem, even set a lap time that far exceeded my expectations and the expectations of the fellow RX7 drivers. the problem is if i get any faster i'll need to short shift a few corners so i need this hesitation gone.
my only idea is that i've weakened a coil. but don't have any tools to test this theory. all the guys i've talked to say that coils work or not at all. so i dunno.
anyone have any thoughts?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

It could be 1000 different things, but it sounds to me like the tune just isn't right. Since it's only happening at a specific rev range that would be my guess. I'm thinking around 4000-5000 in 3rd-5th the turbo is coming into boost and it's hitting areas of the map that weren't properly adjusted.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

but thats the things, that gets me, it worked great for the first half of the season with this tune, and there is nothing that looks outta place. i even played with the tune a bit in this range i tried adding small amounts, leaning out small amount, adding a couple degree of ignition and retarding. all of it had little to no effect.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

I know that my LS1 coils require a longer charge time then is possible for a waste spark ignition, i expected less power at the top end b/c of this. but i didn't think a hesitation would result, especially that the haltech will reduce charge time when it needs to.
does the E6x automatically assume waste spark?
will changing the changing the charge time change when the hesitation occurs. thus informing me that the issue is indeed the charge time?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

What charge time are you running? Those coils need a minimum of 5ms, I prefer at least 6ms. The ECU will automatically limit dwell, so there is no reason not to crank them up.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

running 4ms right now.
so what happens when the ECU cuts the dwell time? a hesitation?

are there any after market coils that can handle waste spark? or is it not worth it?

bumpstart

has the staging bar value been altered,, even inadvertently?

and look closely at the spreadsheet view for the fuel maps
-- look closely along the rpm plots around 5 K for bins that have been zero'd
( IE like 0.0068 ETC when all the bins around it may be 5 ms or such )

- disconnecting the ECU suddenly on some firmwares has been known sometimes to force an error
in some of the memory that amounts to random zeros in the middle of some fuel maps

also if entering the data manually,, be sure to press enter after altering any bins as sometimes it will not take them to memory

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

When the ECU cuts dwell time nothing will happen other than the dwell time is shortened. The E6X has an automatic value programmed into it as a buffer to allow the coil time to properly discharge at the correct time, even at 100% duty. The E8/11 have a programmable value for that buffer. The Platinums went back to a behind the scenes value. In short, crank the dwell up and forget it. The LSx coils needs lots of dwell and are pretty much unaffected by running them at high duty cycles for the short amount of time one would make a power pull.

The Mercury IGN-1A coils are better suited for the wastespark application. They're much, much hotter than the the LS1 coils and require 3ms or less for good saturation.

I agree with Bumpstart, and have said from the beginning, your problem really sounds like a fuel map problem. A spark problem will show up at max boost and higher rpm.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

Hello again.
finally got the car put back together. check the computer and none of the fuel or timing values have been zero'd, even tried reloading the tuning map. I've had her out on the road a couple times now and i've still got the hesitation at 5000rpm, I also picked up a new hesitation when the waste gate opens whatever level it's at. i need to relearn the boost controller and get back to the dyno for just a few smaller corrections.
when the engine bay was apart i noticed that one power wire had came out of the connector on the coil but that's been fixed and the others seem good to.
i forgot to turn the dwell up for the drive today but i remembered when i got back so i'll try again tomorrow and see if that made a difference.

so i'm still at a complete loss.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

what software are you using ?

Dos or window ?
what e6x box do you have ( internal map or external )

Did you check your timing ? is it dead on. ( lock the timing at desired timing mark, and check it, if on stock pulley, I believe its 5 or 20 ) . If racing beat pulley then. 0 works best.

After you have checked, that . Go for a leasure drive, and datalog for a bit, where the hesitation occurs and post it up so we can see.

You want to see what happens at the hesitation. AKA . See if you have ignition drop ( rpm will go to zero or 16000 or anything other than where it should be)

Also want to see the injector timing at the hesitation point.

best of luck

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

I've been using halwin 1.26
E6x has internal map but using the 3 bar GM external map sensor.
timing is dead on (trailing 1 coil fires right on the only mark on REW pickup)
6.0 ms charge time on coils.


sorry for the small size. halwin has terrible resolution but it seems everything is (or close to) how it should be. no unrealistic values.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

problem has been solved.
it was the fuel filter. yeah it doesn't sound like the problem. i went to replace it just as a wear and tear item like i do every spring. what i found was that it was almost pushed through the housing and was leaking around the sides of the filter media. when i saw this i ran to my computer and pulled up last years dyno sheet and noticed that at 4800rpm there is a little lean spot.
sure enough countless hours wasted again over such a small simple thing.
thank you everyone for the help and suggestions.

junito1

SO are you still using the OEM FC fuel filter?

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

no, i was using a golan 10micron filter post pump that has been replaced by an aeromotive 10micron.