Bad rebuild stuck seal?? what are my options ?
11-13-13, 04:31 PM
#1
Bad rebuild stuck seal?? what are my options ?
So I just spent about all my money on a rebuild for my motor ,
everything was going well until I first tried to start it .. it wouldnt start ..
We eventually push started it , and it came to life!
blamed it on my Miata battery . It always worked on my old motor But maybe since this motor was new and needed to get broken in . this battery wasnt enough , This is what my builder told me .
so off I go and get a new 240 dollar optima battery still having the same issues VERY hard starting .
I eventually figured out if I floored the car it would start . I'd have to give it gas for a few minutes and eventually it would idle . First days it idled at 1000 , with 12 vacume . I figued Ok this is just part of the break in .. But when I shut the car off . it would not turn back on sometimes .
Now when I turn the car on Like I said it would not idle . I'd have to give it gas for a while ,
yesterday I got stuck , car wouldnt start even cold . Removed the Fuse to the fuel pump and then it almost started , and then put hte fuel pump fuse back , and it started still hard starting ofcourse taking its time , then eventually starting . vacume super low , for the first few minutes but after driving the vacume settled , vacume was giving me 15 inches at 1100 RPMS , Motor is medium large street port . so I figured ok its gonna be lower then normal ( I had also taken out hte plugs and they were extremely flooded ) I cleaned them a bit and decided I would cclean them well today . and that it was probably leaky injectors So I decide to bring the car to my dads to work on it there .
So today comes along first the car would not idle today .. I didnt under stand I had to keep my foot on the gas the whole time . until I drove for a bit . then it would idle I had upped the idle so that it would stay on before , and then after driving it around idle was at 2000 I then turned the idle back down when I got to work
during lunch I tried to start the car , again no start I ran out of time
, I went back in . and came with a friend out . to give me a hand maybe a jump if needed . after removing the Fuel pump relay it would almost start , so I did that a few times and vuala it started hurray! . But again it would not idle...
had him hold the htrottle cable . and I went and adjusted the idle until it would Idle at 1400 I wanted to make sure it wouldnt shut off on me But the vacume was only -13 at 1400 whne it was -15 at 1100 just this mornning . after driving it a bit idle jumped to 2200 and vacume to -20 ... (seeing a pattern here???) after I got to my dads , I lowered the idle , and again -15 at 1100 being frustrated I took off my intake elbow , and remvoed the plugs , they werent great but not that terrible either .
So I went and said what hte hell since I'm already here ..... I'm gonna do a compression test .. (piston tester )
Rear rotor gave me even pulses at 30 psi with the valve pressed , then 60 psi .. with it closed ,
I said .. oh.... But I thouight ok maybe ifi ts leaky injectors the fuel washed off the seal of the rotors so it wasnt sealing correctly so I poured some ATF down the intake for a good seal , turned it over and
70 PSI.. great ..
I did the front rotor gave me much stronger pulses of 60 PSI with the valve pressed , and then closed it but the battery was out of juice and only gave me 80 PSI .
and here I am waiting for hte battery to charge a bit before I check again .
Now i'd read that compression shouldnt be under 90 even on a fresh rebuild 70 seems... bad...
The housings were 20k miles housings that were in pretty damn goodshape .
brand new GOOPY apex seals , good used rotors , whole motor was balanced .
Its running 1.1:1 premix no OMP .
brand new springs
side seals were reused because my builder said they were good. ( I'm thinking this may be the weak link )
It seems to me almost as if a seal is getting stuck , causing low compression when the car shuts off .. and you try to restart it which causes the low compression , and the motor to flood because it isnt starting ..
My friend just had his motor rebuilt as well
His motor started right up.. no issues and with a dead battery spinning at 160 rpms ..
I'm at a loss .. if it is sticking seals ? is there a fix to this without taking hte motor apart ??
And if it is a sticking seal shouldn't I of had 1 uneven pulse ..
everything was going well until I first tried to start it .. it wouldnt start ..
We eventually push started it , and it came to life!
blamed it on my Miata battery . It always worked on my old motor But maybe since this motor was new and needed to get broken in . this battery wasnt enough , This is what my builder told me .
so off I go and get a new 240 dollar optima battery still having the same issues VERY hard starting .
I eventually figured out if I floored the car it would start . I'd have to give it gas for a few minutes and eventually it would idle . First days it idled at 1000 , with 12 vacume . I figued Ok this is just part of the break in .. But when I shut the car off . it would not turn back on sometimes .
Now when I turn the car on Like I said it would not idle . I'd have to give it gas for a while ,
yesterday I got stuck , car wouldnt start even cold . Removed the Fuse to the fuel pump and then it almost started , and then put hte fuel pump fuse back , and it started still hard starting ofcourse taking its time , then eventually starting . vacume super low , for the first few minutes but after driving the vacume settled , vacume was giving me 15 inches at 1100 RPMS , Motor is medium large street port . so I figured ok its gonna be lower then normal ( I had also taken out hte plugs and they were extremely flooded ) I cleaned them a bit and decided I would cclean them well today . and that it was probably leaky injectors So I decide to bring the car to my dads to work on it there .
So today comes along first the car would not idle today .. I didnt under stand I had to keep my foot on the gas the whole time . until I drove for a bit . then it would idle I had upped the idle so that it would stay on before , and then after driving it around idle was at 2000 I then turned the idle back down when I got to work
during lunch I tried to start the car , again no start I ran out of time
, I went back in . and came with a friend out . to give me a hand maybe a jump if needed . after removing the Fuel pump relay it would almost start , so I did that a few times and vuala it started hurray! . But again it would not idle...
had him hold the htrottle cable . and I went and adjusted the idle until it would Idle at 1400 I wanted to make sure it wouldnt shut off on me But the vacume was only -13 at 1400 whne it was -15 at 1100 just this mornning . after driving it a bit idle jumped to 2200 and vacume to -20 ... (seeing a pattern here???) after I got to my dads , I lowered the idle , and again -15 at 1100 being frustrated I took off my intake elbow , and remvoed the plugs , they werent great but not that terrible either .
So I went and said what hte hell since I'm already here ..... I'm gonna do a compression test .. (piston tester )
Rear rotor gave me even pulses at 30 psi with the valve pressed , then 60 psi .. with it closed ,
I said .. oh.... But I thouight ok maybe ifi ts leaky injectors the fuel washed off the seal of the rotors so it wasnt sealing correctly so I poured some ATF down the intake for a good seal , turned it over and
70 PSI.. great ..
I did the front rotor gave me much stronger pulses of 60 PSI with the valve pressed , and then closed it but the battery was out of juice and only gave me 80 PSI .
and here I am waiting for hte battery to charge a bit before I check again .
Now i'd read that compression shouldnt be under 90 even on a fresh rebuild 70 seems... bad...
The housings were 20k miles housings that were in pretty damn goodshape .
brand new GOOPY apex seals , good used rotors , whole motor was balanced .
Its running 1.1:1 premix no OMP .
brand new springs
side seals were reused because my builder said they were good. ( I'm thinking this may be the weak link )
It seems to me almost as if a seal is getting stuck , causing low compression when the car shuts off .. and you try to restart it which causes the low compression , and the motor to flood because it isnt starting ..
My friend just had his motor rebuilt as well
His motor started right up.. no issues and with a dead battery spinning at 160 rpms ..
I'm at a loss .. if it is sticking seals ? is there a fix to this without taking hte motor apart ??
And if it is a sticking seal shouldn't I of had 1 uneven pulse ..
11-13-13, 04:50 PM
#2
OK , SO I redid both compression tests ... front and rear with a charged battery , and I got 75 PSI , front and rear ...
Is this normal for a motor that is being broken in ... or is this LOW very low .. It seems low to me... and all 6 pulses were near 60 psi . still dissapointed with how low the compression numbers are.
Is this normal for a motor that is being broken in ... or is this LOW very low .. It seems low to me... and all 6 pulses were near 60 psi . still dissapointed with how low the compression numbers are.
Last edited by Tem120; 11-13-13 at 04:56 PM.
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11-13-13, 10:48 PM
#8
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Your friend had an engine rebuilt by the same person?
How many miles were on the used side seals?
Without physically being there during the clearancing (if any) and buillding of the engine it's tough to say what's going on, but if the compression is that low across all six faces it's possible it's a bad build.
Typically our new engines have 110-130 psi depending on the mileage of the housings.
How many miles were on the used side seals?
Without physically being there during the clearancing (if any) and buillding of the engine it's tough to say what's going on, but if the compression is that low across all six faces it's possible it's a bad build.
Typically our new engines have 110-130 psi depending on the mileage of the housings.
11-13-13, 10:58 PM
#9
Your friend had an engine rebuilt by the same person?
How many miles were on the used side seals?
Without physically being there during the clearancing (if any) and buillding of the engine it's tough to say what's going on, but if the compression is that low across all six faces it's possible it's a bad build.
Typically our new engines have 110-130 psi depending on the mileage of the housings.
How many miles were on the used side seals?
Without physically being there during the clearancing (if any) and buillding of the engine it's tough to say what's going on, but if the compression is that low across all six faces it's possible it's a bad build.
Typically our new engines have 110-130 psi depending on the mileage of the housings.
And that is what I was afraid of .. As for the side seals I dont know they came out of a JDM motor . so less then 40 k miles!! ofcourse! , haha
And is that 110 before break in? or after ? rmemeber I only have 150 miles into the break in .
Last edited by Tem120; 11-13-13 at 11:04 PM.
11-14-13, 05:58 PM
#13
I'm gonna go ahead and give it a try , I found a fuel leak . looks like an injector if an injector is leaking and washing off the sealing of the seals . couldn't that cause the low compression ?
I dont want to give up on the engine so soon . I'm just hoping it will build up the compression to acceptable standards after it breaks in .
I dont want to give up on the engine so soon . I'm just hoping it will build up the compression to acceptable standards after it breaks in .
11-14-13, 06:18 PM
#14
I dont think thats the issue , he's made more then a few motors that run just fine . if something is wrong .. it may be with the side seals .. , But build wise .. I dont think its the issue. I think , and I'm hoping that it is just getting flooded and getting washed out by a leaky injector .
11-14-13, 06:44 PM
#15
Rotating Performance.
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I am the one who built his motor, Erik you have my number. I didnt do a compresion test but plan on it & look into a few more things, that were outside of his rebuilt. All i can say at this point is dont be quick to say "its a crapy build" or its the rebuild there is some information missing here! This is not the place for that at this point, the OP has my contact & can get a hold or come by anytime. Im here to the end & stand by my work.
Chris.
Chris.
11-15-13, 03:34 AM
#16
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
I am the one who built his motor, Erik you have my number. I didnt do a compresion test but plan on it & look into a few more things, that were outside of his rebuilt. All i can say at this point is dont be quick to say "its a crapy build" or its the rebuild there is some information missing here! This is not the place for that at this point, the OP has my contact & can get a hold or come by anytime. Im here to the end & stand by my work.
Chris.
Chris.
11-19-13, 12:24 PM
#18
Changed the injectors , car is now hot starting , and Chris and I tuned the idle its holding at 900 and steady . going to take it for a drive after work . let the break in begin . or well finish . I'll keep you guys updated on how things go , I really hate threads that start out on a subject but never get any resolution .
I'll post periodic updates on how things go , and end result of the compression after the break in
Again thanks chris car is running a million times better now ,
And hopefully with the new TB it will run even better , as my idle screw is bad . making idle quite tricky .
I'll post periodic updates on how things go , and end result of the compression after the break in
Again thanks chris car is running a million times better now ,
And hopefully with the new TB it will run even better , as my idle screw is bad . making idle quite tricky .
Last edited by Tem120; 11-19-13 at 12:26 PM.
11-19-13, 05:18 PM
#20
You know what happens Mamba.....
" my friends motor has no issues but mine does"
But he doesn't state that ALL he paid for was a short block rebuild and that the installation, parts and wiring to get the motor running was all done by him. So you know the "issues" must be a bad motor because ALL his other items are in perfect working order...
As I see it, the builder did MORE than he should have to get him up and running.. how does it become the builders issue when install and connections were completed by the OP ? Not to mention the OP is running a PFC, how does the builder know what kind of tune is on that ECU ?
Just my $.002
" my friends motor has no issues but mine does"
But he doesn't state that ALL he paid for was a short block rebuild and that the installation, parts and wiring to get the motor running was all done by him. So you know the "issues" must be a bad motor because ALL his other items are in perfect working order...
As I see it, the builder did MORE than he should have to get him up and running.. how does it become the builders issue when install and connections were completed by the OP ? Not to mention the OP is running a PFC, how does the builder know what kind of tune is on that ECU ?
Just my $.002
11-20-13, 06:16 PM
#21
You know what happens Mamba.....
" my friends motor has no issues but mine does"
But he doesn't state that ALL he paid for was a short block rebuild and that the installation, parts and wiring to get the motor running was all done by him. So you know the "issues" must be a bad motor because ALL his other items are in perfect working order...
As I see it, the builder did MORE than he should have to get him up and running.. how does it become the builders issue when install and connections were completed by the OP ? Not to mention the OP is running a PFC, how does the builder know what kind of tune is on that ECU ?
Just my $.002
" my friends motor has no issues but mine does"
But he doesn't state that ALL he paid for was a short block rebuild and that the installation, parts and wiring to get the motor running was all done by him. So you know the "issues" must be a bad motor because ALL his other items are in perfect working order...
As I see it, the builder did MORE than he should have to get him up and running.. how does it become the builders issue when install and connections were completed by the OP ? Not to mention the OP is running a PFC, how does the builder know what kind of tune is on that ECU ?
Just my $.002
Chris is a great guy , a VERY good person , and he did as MUCH as he possibly could to make this engine good .. I will not regardless of what happens , I cannot say anything bad about chris because he honestly has gone above and beyond the call of duty .. I do not doubt this ..
a tune does not equate 10 inches of vacume at 900 rpms no tune is going to give you 6 inches of vacume regardless of howmuch fuel you pull. a tune equates the fact that its idling very steady , yes .. and you know what chris was the one who helped with that .. , No the builder has NOthing to do with connectors or the tune , like I said above he went above nad beyond his call of duty ..
the 10 inches of vacume could be bad side seal clearancing or it may be that the ports are to big .. I dont know ..
Yes I might of jumped the gun saying it was a bad build maybe ... But I might not .. when you spend day after day killing batteries trying to start the car . flooding every day .. you get frustrated . and when you check the compression and see 75 its not something you jump up for joy about . sometimes you want a second opinion rather then continue to fight a losing battle .
I haven't given up on the engine yet , even though Igot stranded today hah . I'm going to pay to get it compression tested by a rotary tester . and if the tester says the motor is ANYWHERE NEAR ok .. then I will eat my words..
just remember one thing though .. No one is perfect , and mistakes happen weather it be a builder or the owner ..
Last edited by Tem120; 11-20-13 at 06:19 PM.
11-20-13, 07:15 PM
#22
also , lets get this straight , chris knows his stuff .. the car even with its low vacume idles smooth as butter.. a bad seal or a bad build I dont know if it would cause this ... My biggest worries are the hard starting ... and I'm working on tunning the injector map in order to fix that.
11-21-13, 08:14 AM
#23
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Well tem120, i know you can be frustrated, but i "think" i really know the builder in question, my opinion is one of the best persons i met. In my opinion you have to check the work you have done on the car and then if any problem continues than speak with chris , unfortunately like i told you last time we are newbies and we make probably 100% of the mistakes in the car. If i follow all the advices chris told me in past i think my car would be 100 times better but is my first rotary and i need to learn thats why i need a builder if not everyone could say "i'm a rotary guy" and i'm not or at least not yet, i need to learn, but everytime i ask chris to make a job on the car also if he knows i was doing the wrong thing he respect my ideas and did it. Long story short, i know chris is responsable guy so if he make a mistake ( which i doubt but man god create honda's so he did it wrong too) i know he will be there without any problem!
11-22-13, 05:01 PM
#24
lets get some things straight , regardless of what your 20% of 1 cent might mean . your decimal place was a bit off
Chris is a great guy , a VERY good person , and he did as MUCH as he possibly could to make this engine good .. I will not regardless of what happens , I cannot say anything bad about chris because he honestly has gone above and beyond the call of duty .. I do not doubt this ..
a tune does not equate 10 inches of vacume at 900 rpms no tune is going to give you 6 inches of vacume regardless of howmuch fuel you pull. a tune equates the fact that its idling very steady , yes .. and you know what chris was the one who helped with that .. , No the builder has NOthing to do with connectors or the tune , like I said above he went above nad beyond his call of duty ..
the 10 inches of vacume could be bad side seal clearancing or it may be that the ports are to big .. I dont know ..
Yes I might of jumped the gun saying it was a bad build maybe ... But I might not .. when you spend day after day killing batteries trying to start the car . flooding every day .. you get frustrated . and when you check the compression and see 75 its not something you jump up for joy about . sometimes you want a second opinion rather then continue to fight a losing battle .
I haven't given up on the engine yet , even though Igot stranded today hah . I'm going to pay to get it compression tested by a rotary tester . and if the tester says the motor is ANYWHERE NEAR ok .. then I will eat my words..
just remember one thing though .. No one is perfect , and mistakes happen weather it be a builder or the owner ..
Chris is a great guy , a VERY good person , and he did as MUCH as he possibly could to make this engine good .. I will not regardless of what happens , I cannot say anything bad about chris because he honestly has gone above and beyond the call of duty .. I do not doubt this ..
a tune does not equate 10 inches of vacume at 900 rpms no tune is going to give you 6 inches of vacume regardless of howmuch fuel you pull. a tune equates the fact that its idling very steady , yes .. and you know what chris was the one who helped with that .. , No the builder has NOthing to do with connectors or the tune , like I said above he went above nad beyond his call of duty ..
the 10 inches of vacume could be bad side seal clearancing or it may be that the ports are to big .. I dont know ..
Yes I might of jumped the gun saying it was a bad build maybe ... But I might not .. when you spend day after day killing batteries trying to start the car . flooding every day .. you get frustrated . and when you check the compression and see 75 its not something you jump up for joy about . sometimes you want a second opinion rather then continue to fight a losing battle .
I haven't given up on the engine yet , even though Igot stranded today hah . I'm going to pay to get it compression tested by a rotary tester . and if the tester says the motor is ANYWHERE NEAR ok .. then I will eat my words..
just remember one thing though .. No one is perfect , and mistakes happen weather it be a builder or the owner ..
Wow... you really took the time to correct my decimal point ?
CONGRATS.... you get an A for the day....
And PLEASE stop talking like you know whats happening....your just repeating things people are telling you....
Im done with you...
