Standalone input
11-20-12, 06:07 PM
#26
Pardon me if I am a tad skeptical about a connector being tested to only 10 connect/disconnect cycles. In the practical lifetime of a harness, one can exceed that amount just in constructing the harness. What I meant in terms of sources was the actual documentation from the manufacturer, based on repeated tests under specific conditions in a similar manner that any Mil-spec components would be tested.
I'm not doubting your wisdom based on repeatable, tried-and-true experience. This manner of engineering is what I have the highest respect for. However, I am well aware of the fact that someone lacking your experience/building volume may not necessarily have much reason to pony up $50 for a specialized crimp tool in order to utilize the better connector you are referring to, hence why I suggested my method using Metripack connectors as a suitable alternative for building their own harness from scratch with reliability comparable to the harnesses already in the FC & FD. My specific threshold for each connection is 0.07 ohms, the same as a length of 16awg copper wire (smallest I use for anything) and per ES-A-605B specifications (16awg crimp is required to hold 50lbs). If it doesn't score 0.07 or better AND is able to hold 50lbs, the connection is remade. As a result of this, the entire resistance from one end of the harness to the other is 0.07 ohms, from ECU to the turbo control solenoids (furthest distance and largest number of connectors).
Link to specifications: http://delphi.com/connectors/assets/...ns/ESA605B.pdf
With reliability already established, being able to crimp terminals using common tools found in any auto emergency kit and being able to get the housings, terminals and seals from any auto parts store is pretty tough to beat in terms of practicality when you're away from home as a result of an unexpected failure at 9:30pm during a blizzard.
Before this gets out of hand, I think it would be best to do a side-by-side comparison of the available sealed connectors under the same real-world conditions, including their assembly tool cost rather than leave things up to speculation from anyone's perspective. The results might be surprising.
I'm not doubting your wisdom based on repeatable, tried-and-true experience. This manner of engineering is what I have the highest respect for. However, I am well aware of the fact that someone lacking your experience/building volume may not necessarily have much reason to pony up $50 for a specialized crimp tool in order to utilize the better connector you are referring to, hence why I suggested my method using Metripack connectors as a suitable alternative for building their own harness from scratch with reliability comparable to the harnesses already in the FC & FD. My specific threshold for each connection is 0.07 ohms, the same as a length of 16awg copper wire (smallest I use for anything) and per ES-A-605B specifications (16awg crimp is required to hold 50lbs). If it doesn't score 0.07 or better AND is able to hold 50lbs, the connection is remade. As a result of this, the entire resistance from one end of the harness to the other is 0.07 ohms, from ECU to the turbo control solenoids (furthest distance and largest number of connectors).
Link to specifications: http://delphi.com/connectors/assets/...ns/ESA605B.pdf
With reliability already established, being able to crimp terminals using common tools found in any auto emergency kit and being able to get the housings, terminals and seals from any auto parts store is pretty tough to beat in terms of practicality when you're away from home as a result of an unexpected failure at 9:30pm during a blizzard.
Before this gets out of hand, I think it would be best to do a side-by-side comparison of the available sealed connectors under the same real-world conditions, including their assembly tool cost rather than leave things up to speculation from anyone's perspective. The results might be surprising.
11-21-12, 07:33 AM
#27
Who said anything about testing? Of course the connector will probably last longer than 10 cycles. No one is saying it won't. Seems to be the consensus that it will. I said the "design spec" is for 10 cycles. When GM wanted a connector they paid someone to build them a connector that would last 10 cycles. If they got more, great. If not, oh well, it's out of warranty anyway. They could of asked more a mil connector speced for 1000 cycles, but it would of cost more. So, they went to Wal-Mart and bought a connector that would fit the bill for what they were doing.
The Weatherpack is cheap. Designed to be cheap. It feels cheap and flimsy in your hands compared to better parts. The better parts don't cost that much more and are just as easy, or easier, to work with and source. Using the better part and recommending the better part to others is a no-brainer. Again, if you want to buy from the lowest bidder and are proud of it, good for you. But I'll chose to recommend a better part.
The Weatherpack is cheap. Designed to be cheap. It feels cheap and flimsy in your hands compared to better parts. The better parts don't cost that much more and are just as easy, or easier, to work with and source. Using the better part and recommending the better part to others is a no-brainer. Again, if you want to buy from the lowest bidder and are proud of it, good for you. But I'll chose to recommend a better part.
11-23-12, 09:09 PM
#30
Glad we could help. Despite what was presented, C. Ludwig and I are both of the same mind in that a harness is only as good as the parts that it is made of. To reiterate, both Metripack and Deutsch connectors meet SAE J2030 specifications for Harsh Environment Service. I have not personally used Deutsch connectors, and I'm sure that they work exactly as C. Ludwig has illustrated them. However, they appear to be rather difficult to de-pin due to the push-and-pull nature of their extraction tools as illustrated here:
In contrast, Metripack connectors are de-pinned from their mating ends, and have a distinct feeling when the locking tang is released (it 'clicks'). Extraction info here at 0:53:
I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that being able to de-pin a connector is just as important as crimping the terminals properly, especially when one puts a terminal in the wrong cavity. I just feel that the Deutsch manner of terminal extraction would lead to more frustration because of stuck terminals as a result of the crimp being stressed during the de-pin process. This is because it relies more heavily on a strong crimp for removal.
On their Superseal 1.0 connectors, Tyco Electronics recommends that terminals be replaced and re-crimped after 3 extractions in order to prevent stress-related failures. What I learned when redoing my Haltech harness is that they take a surprising amount of force to extract properly, more than one would think and more than I felt comfortable with as I've had properly made terminal crimps fail with less force. The whole time I was always wondering WHEN a crimp was going to fail, and having to Macgyver an extraction method as a result.
Call me crazy, but I'm of the mindset that such aren't the good kind of surprise for a less-experienced harness builder. Installing a standalone for the first time is intimidating enough, so it's kinda crazy to add to the anxiety with a de-pin method that triggers the "I better stop before this breaks" response.
To settle this, how about we give a unilateral lesson in proper terminal extraction? Adding some "Oh ****" instructions for when a crimp fails or wire breaks at the terminal would definitely make this archive-worthy.
In contrast, Metripack connectors are de-pinned from their mating ends, and have a distinct feeling when the locking tang is released (it 'clicks'). Extraction info here at 0:53:
I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that being able to de-pin a connector is just as important as crimping the terminals properly, especially when one puts a terminal in the wrong cavity. I just feel that the Deutsch manner of terminal extraction would lead to more frustration because of stuck terminals as a result of the crimp being stressed during the de-pin process. This is because it relies more heavily on a strong crimp for removal.
On their Superseal 1.0 connectors, Tyco Electronics recommends that terminals be replaced and re-crimped after 3 extractions in order to prevent stress-related failures. What I learned when redoing my Haltech harness is that they take a surprising amount of force to extract properly, more than one would think and more than I felt comfortable with as I've had properly made terminal crimps fail with less force. The whole time I was always wondering WHEN a crimp was going to fail, and having to Macgyver an extraction method as a result.
Call me crazy, but I'm of the mindset that such aren't the good kind of surprise for a less-experienced harness builder. Installing a standalone for the first time is intimidating enough, so it's kinda crazy to add to the anxiety with a de-pin method that triggers the "I better stop before this breaks" response.
To settle this, how about we give a unilateral lesson in proper terminal extraction? Adding some "Oh ****" instructions for when a crimp fails or wire breaks at the terminal would definitely make this archive-worthy.
11-24-12, 07:13 AM
#31
Here is how the DTP, DT, and DTM connectors work. No special tool is required, unlike your beloved Weatherpack.
The circular connectors, mil and non-mil rated, do require special insertion and extraction tools. However, they're still very easy to work with and no real effort is required when either seating or removing the terminals. We purchase the circular connectors through Pro Wire USA and they include an insertion/extraction tool with each connector. Once you've worked with these, you'll see that they're just as easy to work with as any of the other connector types.
Circular terminal video. This is the same way the mil-spec connectors work.
The circular connectors, mil and non-mil rated, do require special insertion and extraction tools. However, they're still very easy to work with and no real effort is required when either seating or removing the terminals. We purchase the circular connectors through Pro Wire USA and they include an insertion/extraction tool with each connector. Once you've worked with these, you'll see that they're just as easy to work with as any of the other connector types.
Circular terminal video. This is the same way the mil-spec connectors work.
11-24-12, 01:06 PM
#32
This is very good information, the exact kind that anyone building a standalone harness needs to see. I've contacted Aaron Cake about compiling a Wiring FAQ to assist people in building harnesses properly with the correct methods, reasoning and tools necessary for the connectors chosen for each location.Starting with the information presented regarding Deutsch DT-Series and Delphi Metripack Connectors as the overall template, this FAQ should prove to be very popular.
By logical extension, this ties in with the Connector Identification Project I've been working on, in the manner of de-pinning/re-pinning the stock FC/FD/whatever connectors correctly. For example, the S4's stereo connectors are all part of Yazaki/KET's 250 series connectors that utilize 0.250" terminals. These are de-pinned by hooking the plastic 'ramp' at the top of each cavity when viewed from the mating end and pulling up on it so its plastic cylinder exits the hole on the terminal so it can be pulled out from the rear. To insert a terminal, just put it in from the rear untill it clicks. The click is the ramp's cylinder dropping into the matching hole on the terminal.
By logical extension, this ties in with the Connector Identification Project I've been working on, in the manner of de-pinning/re-pinning the stock FC/FD/whatever connectors correctly. For example, the S4's stereo connectors are all part of Yazaki/KET's 250 series connectors that utilize 0.250" terminals. These are de-pinned by hooking the plastic 'ramp' at the top of each cavity when viewed from the mating end and pulling up on it so its plastic cylinder exits the hole on the terminal so it can be pulled out from the rear. To insert a terminal, just put it in from the rear untill it clicks. The click is the ramp's cylinder dropping into the matching hole on the terminal.
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