2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

Slight throttle dies

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 15, 2015 | 09:14 PM
  #1  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Slight throttle dies

Ok fellas, so here's the issue. And before you say it, yes I have researched and tried diagnosing.
This happens when:
Partial throttle is applied
In any gear, At rpm:
Afr - - -(dashes) out lean
Dies at idle
Face plants driving

If I baby touch the throttle its fine and drivable..ish except up hill not enough air flow/power:
- 1.6v to ~3.9+v

At ~4.5v partial throttle that's when dash out lean Afr hits
During idling it WILL cause engine to die.
While driving it will cause power loss and nose dive
When I press just past "dead zone" throttle, 4.5v half to full throttle, afr jumps back up to normal operation

So I'd say
0 to 10% throttle input gives normal afr

~15 to 25% is the "dead zone"

~30 to 100% throttle input gives normal afr
If that makes any more since.

I have checked for any possible vacuum leaks, all resolved.
Timing. No change.
Swapped around afm, tps, barometric pressure sensor. No change.
Put my rtek 2.1 to factory settings. No change.
Swapped around injectors. No change.

If any other info is need, please ask.
This issue makes it hell to drive slow in residential, or go from a stop without spinning wheels.

Thanks, Brendan

Last edited by R.O.D; Sep 16, 2015 at 02:17 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 08:56 AM
  #2  
misterstyx69's Avatar
Retired Moderator, RIP
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (142)
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 25,581
Likes: 136
From: Smiths Falls.(near Ottawa!.Mapquest IT!)
Thread Copied..and now shows up in the RTEK Section so you can get help there too.
Good luck to ya.
STYX (MOD)
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 10:38 AM
  #3  
barkz's Avatar
Rotary Enthusiast
Tenured Member 05 Years
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 1
From: New Hampsha
Do you have a stock ecu to swap in to check?
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 02:15 PM
  #4  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Originally Posted by barkz
Do you have a stock ecu to swap in to check?
Haven't swapped ecus yet, will try that tomorrow.

Was thinking maybe poor fuel pressure, but that affect higher rpms and not lower, right?
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 02:46 PM
  #5  
FührerTüner's Avatar
Penis Healthy
Tenured Member: 10 Years
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 799
From: █▬█ █▄█ █▬█ █▄██▬█ █▄█ █▬█ █▄█
Turbo or na

Also when you give it partial throttle i wonder if it somehow thinks its in decel mode and is cutting fuel to 1 rotor... i dunnno

Last edited by FührerTüner; Sep 16, 2015 at 02:49 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 03:50 PM
  #6  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
disconnect the TPS and retry
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 05:06 PM
  #7  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Sorry should've specified specs

86 frame 88 turbo swap
Stock ports all emissions removed
Bac valve installed, not plugged in
(Not a leak source, I've checked)
550s prime and sec for now
Modded tb
60-1 t04e .82 ar exhaust 3" outlet
Running +/- 5 psi for breakin period
2.5" tubing and large fmic
Stock coils and plugs
Avcr ebc
Rtek 2.1
Apexi neo (only for system monitoring)
Read rumors on here that they sometimes cause issues even being installed. May remove for testing.
Aem wb afr


I will disconnect tps and try swapping ecu at different interval.

What will disconnecting the tps do or show? Will it even start or run?
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 05:32 PM
  #8  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
ditch the neo, if it isnt set properly it will only cause issues
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 06:13 PM
  #9  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Probably will for troubleshooting. But issues came after neo install. Actually years later.
About to go fly now, but will test first thing tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Lyger
ditch the neo, if it isnt set properly it will only cause issues
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2015 | 11:27 PM
  #10  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]

Crap video, but best I could do at 11pm. Hopefully it can shed some more light on the issue. I'll take a better one if needed. Gonna test tomorrow.

Thanks

Last edited by R.O.D; Sep 16, 2015 at 11:35 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2015 | 05:26 PM
  #11  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Originally Posted by Lyger
disconnect the TPS and retry
Disconnected while idling. Died. Started without tps. Wouldn't hold idle. Still had dead zone.
Not sure what that was testing.. But plugging it back in lol

Ecu swap next. Then neo removal.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2015 | 05:50 PM
  #12  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Ecu swap. No change.
Neo removal. No change.
:/
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2015 | 07:35 AM
  #13  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by R.O.D
Disconnected while idling. Died. Started without tps. Wouldn't hold idle. Still had dead zone.
Not sure what that was testing.. But plugging it back in lol

Ecu swap next. Then neo removal.
simple, the TPS is what controls decel rear rotor cut and decel full fuel cut. it is a process of elimination.

sounds like you have a faulty injector ground or a severe lack of fuel pressure.
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2015 | 05:40 PM
  #14  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
I gotcha! Ya and I'm starting to think fuel psi as well. If I slowly let off the throttle that "dead zone" almost disappears. May be a hack job. But thinking of using a vice grib to slightly increase pressure by making the return side a little more restricted. Thoughts? BTW, this will NOT be permanent. Just for testing.


Originally Posted by Lyger
simple, the TPS is what controls decel rear rotor cut and decel full fuel cut. it is a process of elimination.

sounds like you have a faulty injector ground or a severe lack of fuel pressure.
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2015 | 05:54 PM
  #15  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
that would only work if the regulator is stuck open and allowing pressure to bleed off. if the pump is weak or there is a bypassing leak inside the tank then that won't really accomplish much. you can usually rent a pressure tester from a generic auto parts store.
Reply
Old Sep 18, 2015 | 09:37 PM
  #16  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Started cheap tonight by getting a new fuel filter. Did the $1 hooker trick and put my mouth on it and blew lol
Old one was definitely restrictive compared to the new one. Gonna go out tonight and gather info
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 02:49 AM
  #17  
sir revalot's Avatar
Full Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Perth Australia
Boost leak or vac leak between turbo and throttle body...

AFM can't read the extra air drawn in as the throttle is slightly opened as it sucks air elsewhere.

Once the turbo starts spooling it draws air through the AFM and sorts itself out..

Probably runs a bit rich on boost too and a bit lean on idle too.

If it was fuel filter/pump/pressure it would hate any kind of load.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 02:54 AM
  #18  
sir revalot's Avatar
Full Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Perth Australia
Or maybe the ECU isn't giving that extra squirt of fuel as the throttle is pressed as an accelerator pump does on a carby.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 02:56 AM
  #19  
sir revalot's Avatar
Full Member
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Perth Australia
Also check and double check ignition timing as per factory specs as retarded ign timing will do this too.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 06:23 AM
  #20  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
a large vacuum leak could do it but i'd be pretty surprised that the ECU didn't cut off the pump once started and that the car wouldn't just continually stall versus idle. but i guess it really depends where the leak is and whether it is able to act as a flapper valve with enough air movement.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 04:38 PM
  #21  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Pulled the fuel pump out. Inside looks either rusted or just dirty. Aaaaand the pump sock was destroyed. Looks like the pump ate it. Soooooo. Got an aeromotive 340 on the way, but gonna try this one again with a new sock and see how it does. Plus I'm gonna try to do the 12v pump rewire.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 04:48 PM
  #22  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
a rewire is a good idea for any turbo car, sounds skeptical that a new sock will fix the pump though.
Reply
Old Sep 19, 2015 | 09:09 PM
  #23  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
I don't disagree, bit thought it might be worth a shot. Jury rigged some crap as a sock to prevent large contaminants from getting in. I think the pump is just shot. Between eating the old sock and more than likely because it sat in old fuel its probably just done. New pump should be in Wednesday. I'll report back then.

Originally Posted by Lyger
a rewire is a good idea for any turbo car, sounds skeptical that a new sock will fix the pump though.
Reply
Old Sep 21, 2015 | 03:38 PM
  #24  
R.O.D's Avatar
Thread Starter
Forward, Always
Veteran: Army
Tenured Member: 20 Years
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 4
From: [REDACTED]
Just installed a aeromotive 340lph. No a little tiny bit smoother. But overall, no change. Maybe a bad fpr??? Idk. I'm at wits end
Reply
Old Sep 21, 2015 | 03:55 PM
  #25  
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
Sharp Claws
Tenured Member 15 Years
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 50
From: Central Florida
have you checked the injector ground on the main engine harness?
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.