Need some help form y'all regarding the pros and cons of PowerFC vs. AEM for my application. I have a 95 FD. Am getting ready to have the motor street ported, will have larger injectors installed and will be installing the 99 J-Spec 280 HP turbos to replace the current turbos. Setup also has a downpipe, high flow main cat, cat back exhaust and the small Greddy FMIC. Needs needs to be able to pass smog ever other year in CA.

I'd like to get advice from other (esteemed) forum members on the pros and cons of the PowerFC vs. AEM computers in such a set up, as this is my short list of engine management systems and I would like to pick the best one for me. The car will be daily driven, with occasional auto-x events from time to time. Needs to be dead on reliable. Any advice/tips of any type in this regard would be most appreciated.

 

First off I'd like to say that I'm partial to AEM.

Next I hate XS Engineering (The only "Authorized" place in Socal to tune PFC)

With that in mind, I concidered datalogit, and if you've seen it, it looks and feels like a hack of MS Excel, and in fact is a hack of the ecu, by a company in New Zealand.

A lot of people will tell you it's a reliable platform, and has been tested, on countless rotaries, true. And AEM has a handfull, aslo true.

I personally like the interface, support, and general "Package" that AEM provides, if you add up PFC + Commander + Datalogit, you're looking at $1500.00 or so... AEM = $1300.00 for ECU and software...

The AEM has dual knock controll input, with individual rotor sparc retard, upon detection of knock (Thresholdable). PFC has a flashing light to tell you you might want to lay off the throttle....
AEM had traction controll, built in Wideband support, with auto tuning, (Wouldn't bet the farm @ boost on that though) Full wastegate controll based on stock map sensor, or GM 3 Bar (configurable). Support for any size injector you wish to install, give the software the specs on the injectors, and start tuning.

PFC has some of these things, I hear you have to put inline resistors for 1600's... can't do AFR or Wastegate controll without an additional kit... etc... I'm not shure on the specifics, I'm sure an PFC person is more than willing to educate you on this.

Download the software and check it out @ www.aempower.com and go to the forums, and look in there, there's a link to the same software that I use on my car...

The one major downfall of the AEM system is Tuning... and I'm going to be frank with you, get the AEM or don't whatever ECU you get throw it in the toolbox, untill you have the cash to get it tuned... it's $300 - $500 and can save you $6K on a rebuild, I kind of wanted to get my engine rebuilt, ported etc.. so I wasn't too upset when it went, but it did, cause I didn't re-tune after I took it off the '94 and stuck it on my '93.... same mods, older injectors etc... still blew my engine....

So With the AEM find a Tuner in your area first, go to the aem forums and ask / read. THEN... Buy an AEM, once you've spoken to the person you're intrusting your engine too and the people who have used him....

-DC

 

Thanks very much for your thoughts. Would anyone care to take up to cause of the PowerFC?

 

The best thing about the pfc is the support side of the equation.
Look at all the people just on the forum that choose the pfc over any other.
It is the simplicity of just going with what works and what is proven.

Look for a good tuners in your area first, then look at your options for a EMS.

Your choice should almost certainly be for the best support in your area unless you have the will to go it alone.

 

Hey Jlivingston, I have a brand new never used AEM for FD and I'm in the bay area too. I'm selling for $1000 pm me if you are interested

 

Any thoughts as to the pure technical superiority of the PFC vs. the AEM? I have heard the feedback re: support and think that is very important, but if I were in a situation where support for each system would be the same, any thoughts as to which system is better? Also, I saw some neg reports re:AEM elsewhere. Gist was that AEM was still not ready for prime time. Any success stories out there re: AEM? PFC?

 

There are no technical advantages to the PowerFC save the comander. The AEM is far more advanced technically then the PowerFC ever will. But its this same fact that makes the AEM far more difficult to tune.

If you want something quick and easy and will give you good controll over fuel and spark, PFC is the way to go.

If you want a full featured standalone that will allow you to tune/controll just about anything you can imagin, at the cost of simplicity, go with the AEM.

Best thing to do; find someone local with a PFC and see if they will let you take a look at the control's and screens and such. Then Download AEM's software and play around with it.

 

Once the AEM is programmed can you pretty much leave it alone if your setup does not change? What sort of horsepower and torque numbers are you getting from your setup with the AEM? Does the AEM allow for multiple programs/configurations?

Last question, to all interested, is it considered to be conventional wisdom that the AEM really IS far more advanced technically than the PowerFC ever will be?

 

I think the answer to that question is a yes, it has much more potential, its harnessing its potential is the problem.


I looked at the AEM system, and have good technical support for tuning locally, but without a real AEM professional around I was still leery of getting it because of all the problems I was hearing about operating it.(at the time they had no base map and by that I mean a idling base map. People were having problems just keeping their cars idling without sputtering and dying. And this was not very long ago months even.

I went on their support forum and asked a few questions and didn’t really get the feeling that even their top EMS engineers really understood how finicky a rotary can be and lacked the respect one really needs to successfully manage it.

Once it has progressed to a point were the main problems are solved and people are successfully running it with similar setups as mine, I will definitely give it a try and hope that it will be a step forward in EMS technology that is user friendly.

 

i am using my friends screen name for this. i have a 98 acura integra, boosted with every mod except the block, long story... but i opted for the aem ems , after i got it and had played with it for a while, eeven though i had heard horor stories about it, this new version of the software/firmware seems pretty bullet proof,, and they are still making improvements, i had the car running in 10 minutes, and i havge never tuned a computer in my life... i am inlove with the interface, i have a 7 inch screen in my dash, and i am using the aem software as my instruments.., there is a pc in my back seat. but my friend,(182rx7) is inheriting his brothers 93 fd. we pulled the motor today, and we will be removiong the twins tomorrow. im not sure what ems he is going with, but i am trying to get him to go with the aem, but he wants to go with the fc. the only reason he wants the fc is because it is proven. and i believe him. but i also believe, from looking at the fc, that the aem had much more potential as a daily driven, user tuned computer. i think i am going to talk him into the aem, but i want everyone to look into it for themselves. and i do suggest that you look at the forums, they are VERY HELPFUL. there arent' many stupid people there, as you have to be a ems owner to post... let me know what you guys think. thanks

 

www.gauge-tech.com

 

The PFC has higher resolution than the AEM. The PFC's fuel/ignition maps are 20x20. The AEM maps are 21x17 judging from the AEM software I downloaded. Therefore, you don't have as many pressure cells to work with when using the AEM. In theory this seems like a disadvantage, especially when running high boost, but I have no real world experience to back up my opinion. Maybe an experienced tuner, such as Steve Kan or demetrios, can comment on this.

Despite the point about resolution I like the AEM for the following reasons:
1. you can use a more accurate 02 sensor without yet another electronic box
2. no datalogit required
3. it has a much better boost control system
4. aux outs
5. generally more flexible

 

There are dozens of PFC cars running great (driveability/power/etc) so it is a proven unit albeit with some idle issues. I know noone with an AEM. Do your research and find folks with a good running AEM setup before you take the AEM route.

 

wheres the best place to buy both(one or the other) and how hard to a person whos good with computers but never tuned ne thing car wise in his life, would it be for the aem to be tuned.?

 

RX-7 Store:

http://www.rx7store.net/index.asp?Pa...S&Category=297

If you've never tuned a car before, you probably shouldn't start with an FD. You'll be better off paying someone to tune it or get a rechipped stock ECU (which will already be programmed).

 

Computer skills unfortunately don't do you any good... here Other than beeing able to launch the program and knowing how to open and close windows, and adjust parameters.

The key here is a thorrough understanding of Electronic Fuel Injection, and then applying that knowledge to a software that lets you adjust V-Tech on a rotary.... with obviously no positive or negative effect, but there are litterally undreds of tables and mappings that are in the software for NOS, WI, anything that can be measured against throttle rpm etc... is game.... and none of it affects the motor unless installed. So knowing which tables to look at and what to adjust them to is a major factor in tuning the AEM....

(Geek Speak) it's kind of like looking through the registry/cshrc on your PC, and going I'd like to change the default screen resolution / refresh rate... for one user. Unless you've seen the files your modifying you're just searching and trying, and you won't know what you acomplished untill someone else logs on, and screems, why is this all so "f"in small !

-DC

The fun thing is you can dl and run the software without the ecu. from their forum. The only thing that's different when connected, is that all the tables show you the values from the car in real-time... so you have some sort of reference... but play with AEM's software and you'll feel a lot better / or maybe worse about what you're getting into... BTW, Datalogit isn't much better, just they don't have stupid stuff like Vtech as a table to confuse you