I'm this close to closing the thread for being off topic.

Keep it on topic.

 

Didn't know you could do that Will do, I think its pretty much done anyway.

 

It's one of the perks of modding.

 

So with the topic being that drifting is not racing.No its not racing in the sense of who is faster than the other , its a "judged competition"(which is also known as a "race" ie.Presidential Race...) of who is better at angles and choosing the right line... both parties are right... and both parties are wrong .... plain and simple...

Someone had even mentioned that wearing protective gear is a little over the top? Yes safety is overrated....
Alot of the cars that do drift are 200+ HP they probably wouldnt do to bad if quarter miles where their main objective and last time I was up in canada at redline time attack.... RX7's were not the grip car of choice......

Be open minded guys

Someone who is into cars is INTO cars and open to all aspects of it.. I appreciate all avenues of cars from classics to hot rods to rat rods to imports and even classic american muscle. I will watch F1 racing and Indy Racing and Time Attack and Rally Racing and Drifting........ I guess I just like cars..........

 

that's all fine and dandy, but don't expect to not be laughed at when you try to tell people that drifting is racing.

If there's no clock, it's not auto racing, pure and simple. What you're arguing now is just semantics, and you'll have to realize that not many people share your viewpoint.

 

Lol I live where Nascar is number one man... i wouldnt dream of it lol...

Drifting=Imports and Not going fast to beat a clock.

Would never expect to not be laughed at..... bc I dont think they think that race means anything else other than A Car going forward to get to a common point first... just another great example of the American Education system.... lol

But Semantics you are probably right....so im gonna leave this alone bc I think you and a handful understand that there is semantics involved

 

i like how you stated how your into all kinds of cars cuz thats a motor enthusiast. me myself i wouldn't mind cruisin a old skool fox body mustang or 70's chevelle as a daily

 

I agree with JDM_FC. i love and respect all types of cars. to be honest i actually enjoy auto cross events more just because i dont have that scared felling im going to wreck my car and i get the same rush.

To each his own.

i think this thread is done. everyone has gotten there point out and everyone has been heard. Roen you can close the thread if you like. i dont think it will stay on topic or it will just cause more arguing.

on a side note we should just have a post section dedicated to common arguments so we can keep it out of the rest of the site. I can see it now. argument threads. V8 vs rotary, drifting. ect.. ha

 

Its cool to have a lot of interests because you get to experience a little of everything. Just remember that all that means is that you will never succeed in reaching your goal in just one. So no, a real "motor enthusiast" isn't into everything, just because I like to focus all of my interest into just one doesn't mean I'm any less of a car enthusiast than you are. This is just my opinion though from what I've gathered after meeting all different types of people, whether you choose to take it seriously is up to you.

 

^^^Agreed. If you want to become top level in any motorsport it takes alot of dedication. I love road racing, but most of my time money and efforts are put towards drifting. But..... if an open track event is happening on a road course and there are no drift events I will try my best to get some seat time. Being a well rounded driver is a great asset. If I reach my goals in drifting I will move on to road racing (while still drifting of course). But my goals in drifting may take the rest of my life lol.

In short, help your kids follow their dreams, the earlier they start the greater they can become. Just wish my parents would have done that with me lol.

 

[QUOTE=KhanArtisT;8001299]
Still doesn't prove anything, other than the fact that drifting is "cool" (as afro describes it) and attracts a crowd.QUOTE]


Actually I think I said bad *** (didnt go back and re-read but I'm pretty sure) lol. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE. lol. Bad *** to me is like an old model-T rat rod roaring down the street. Cool is like an ls-1 in an FC. Take that how you like haha

 

This is where you said cool.

Yeah seriously, theres 8 year old kids in go karts running faster times than cars here at local autocrosses. Just imagine if you got that big a head start plus the knowledge and experience in building, restoring and tuning cars. Its discouraging and inspirational at the same time.

 

It's called Difference of Opinion, to gain access, pm Icemark, but be warned, moderation is lax, arguments and flames are aplenty, and people don't play nice.

 

i wish my parents would have started me early in auto sports... I still wanna hit up a few of the 2-3day driving schools. It would be soooo much fun. lol.
I acutally have a friend who raced shifter cars for years and years and he doesnt even car about cars too much. He is impressed by common new car+ shiny rims. Im a lil angry about that... Oh and he isnt too bright... he ran out of gas going to school.. He drove around on the gas light in a supercharged V8 for a night then the next day took us to school and didnt get gas. We were late to say the least....

 

The only thing that sucks about track time is how expensive it is, for part time employed college students anyway $400 a day and $600+ for weekends, and all the events for the next two months are full

It sounds like your friend just did it as a fun hobby or whatever, same as if he had instead spent the time and money fishing or something.

 

no, his dad and step-dad both have $$. They pretty much paid for everything. The kid doesnt kno that he knows alot about racing but at the same time, he doesnt know alot. lol Its hard to explain, but he started racing when he was like 8... and stopped when he was 14ish(he is 18 now) All his cart stuff is just stored somewhere.... but he doesnt kno how to drive a stick shift(or he says he cant)...

 

The first video is impressive. I think the guy has skill. It's not really the drifting I was referring to in my initial post, I was referring to the bastardized version found in the 3rd video. The AE86 was on an actual road course, which I don't think most US drifting is. That would explain the speed differences.

Interesting to note that one of the sequences where the AE86 runs through some esses, he does so in a conventional manner, launching over the curbing. If drifting were the faster method wouldn't he use the same technique there as well? After watching the full AE86 vid I came away impressed with most of it. It doesn't, however, change my opinion that if he ran the same car on the same track in proper racing form ("grip" if you will) he would be faster overall.

The last video is simply a smoke-fest run at "very low speed compared to actual racing" (my original quote), and is as useless as a burnout contest or hydraulic suspension competition. My opinion, of course.

(Sidebar: It's ironic to me that the guy in the AE86 is going quite fast and is dressed in normal attire. The guys in the smoke-fest are the ones who are likely adorned in full-on racing gear from head to toe, with complimentary HANS devices, and look like they haven't exceeded 50mph!)

Finally, if you don't want to read negative opinions on drifting, don't start a topic entitled, "VENT post for drifting". Besides, it should keep all the negativity out of the rest of the drifting threads, no?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0-PQ08z4w

yea!

and The reason they are decked out in racing/safety gear is cuz they are at a Real Track, With Real Rules, and Things do happen. They usually run 50+. Ive acutally almost been drift smacked by a car(lol yea nopi was the ****), but they have walls that if they hit, wont budge, so for the safety of the driver(and insurance reasons) they must have safety gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVTxfj60Jqo
go to 38 seconds^^

I kno its not the US series, but there has been 2 times that i KNOW of where a AE86 has flipped over and one on its side. One was a Pro Japan driver, and the other was a armature trying to get his FD license. the 2nd one happened this past year at the tryout.

Edit: The ae86 that crashed at 2:40ish is the one who flipped in the Us. I cant remember his name, but he alway crashes his car at events lol.

 

you guys are funny.

remember NASCAR vs drifting. NASCAR guy sucket at it.
but what ever there rich.

 

But remember the interviews with the Nascar drivers, they all said "that was the most fun they had in a car."

 

There was one nascar guy who got the hang of it and put some smoke up... he drove sam's car....hehe bringing it back from the dead...
~TDR

 

before i say anything, i wanna say first that i'm a keen drifter and i enjoy drifting

i think that there's one thing we should all make clear in this discussion: is drifting faster than gripping?

the truth is, on an open track, on a flat road, gripping IS faster than drifting. i'm not saying if one or the other is slow or not, just that, relative to each other, gripping is faster, period. it took me 2, 3 years to come to this realization myself. sorry, fellow drifters.

think about this for a sec: in drifting, a person takes his cars sliding sideways around a corner, and tries to maintain his speed/angle throughout the corner and maintain his drift until he's way pass the apex of the corner. so, even if the car enters a corner at, say, 100mph, it would prob exit not much faster, probably about 110mph, and then, because of the drift, would loose 1 second, maybe even a fraction of a second, to regain grip and accelerate pass a corner.

in gripping, even though the car may have to enter a corner marginally slower, say 85 mph, its acceleration point is much earlier, just on or a little pass the apex of a corner. as such, it may exit the corner at speeds in excess of 115mph, and will definitely reach the next corner faster than a car that was drifting.

is drifting a race? in the purest sense, no. no one is competing to get the best track time etc. but they are competing against one another in their 'style', 'line' and 'technique'. it's sportsmanship and showmanship. it may not be a race, but it's definitely a competition.

as for drifting jap cars and the rx7 in particular, well, nearly all jap cars are made with drifting and track attacks in mind (some say it's because drifting originate in japan, tho i am dubious to the statement). but let's consider the rx7 for a second:

a perfect 50:50 front rear weight ratio, superb handling, and an engine capable of reaching 500+ bhp and you have

a lethal track attacker

or

with a little more tuning and creativity, an awesome drift machine

in terms of skill, no one is better than the other, because, honestly fellas, you're comparing apples and oranges.

in drifting, skills are required to get a car sideways and loose grip, getting it out of control whilst still being in control of the car.

in gripping, skills are used to preserve the tires, to make them last as long as possible, and that's by NOT sliding sideways.

again, showmanship against speed.

keiichi tsuchiya, a drift pioneer, said it best: 'i drift not because it's the fastest way around a corner, but because it's the most exciting way'.

 

Drifting is a technique. It is about picking the right line, entry speed, hitting your clipping point, and a bit of showmanship. This is for the lead car in a tandem event. Your trailing car is tasked with following the leads line, or picking the better, passing, or at least SHOWING he can pass, hitting clip points, entry speed, and also showmanship.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that most haters of drifting have ever had to fight off a trailing car, or had to fight to pass a lead car. Many people just think that drifting is about getting angle and smoking tires.

I could go on forever, but I really just want people to realize that drifting is more then what most on this forum are doing (single runs and lower practice speeds) and that most people from other motor sports that have tried it, have failed but fell in love with it and worked to become weekend drifters for fun!!!

 

I hate what drifting has become. And I could go on for days about it.

I'm a HUGE Formula 1 fan. I have a friend in WTCC, friends in SKUSA 125cc shifter kart series, etc etc. I am a legit fast driver, racing situations, time trials, whatever. Karts, cars, etc. Point is: cars make sense to me. And driving them fast is very natural. I'm a very natural kind of driver, not someone who has to "study" or "memorize" something. I just tune into the vehicle and basically just do what feels right.


Why bother drifting? Cause its fun and cheaper than racing. Every "drifter" should get kicked in the face and learn how to actually drive for reals. At the same time... "grippers" should learn how to slide their car around and get comfortable with yaw angles. Most are so tight and stiff. Look a Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso... very comfortable sliding their F1 cars around when needed.


Anyways, don' get me started. The one thing you cannot deny is that despite all the retarded kids "drifting" in a Walmart parking lot, when you see this **** done right, you can't say that its not extremely impressive car control and entertaining.

Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUryvq5WBe0&feature=user

 

Exactly. Whoever started the drift is faster than grip argument is quite clouded. I think perhaps it was misinterperted when Keichi would beat faster cars in a down hill battle where they could not use thier power as well. Focusing on the balance of the car with power and suspension and the ability to control your car.

Drifting is a "next level" of driving. I think most people don't take the right path to start drifting as you should learn to drive for lap times and get basic car control so you can use those skills to better your drift. I see sooooo many posts oh here about angle and steering angle and tires and its painfully obvious that people need seat time.
Drift is about car control, and it is about speed but OBVIOUSLY if you are lined up on a corner with traction you will have better times than if you drifted. That is not the point of Pro drift is. Drift is a part of regular road course racing and time attack and a race drift can be used to better your times without a doubt. Pro drifting (FD, NOPI, D1 etc) is a expanded focus on one part of racing where you attempt to go as fast as possible with the maximum angle sideways. Yes, it is judged, but more often than not the drivers are timed between two points in the corner to determine who is actually faster so in that aspect it is racing. The whole subjective side to drift is the biggest downfall for me personally but it is so much fun and challenging that I just can't stop.

It is also my firm belief that there are a number of people out there who are really just afraid to drift out of fear of embarrassment or fear of crashing the car. Especially some people who have somewhat of a reputation as a fast driver, they find comfort in bashing drift. It is easy to just drive around the course and work on getting better times by increasing power or adjusting your line and braking points etc. Not to say that there is no skill involved, for me I love road racing and I love being door handle to door handle racing, that is where a lot of good drivers shine but for time attack I found it a lot like playing the drums where you have to find the fast line and hit it every single time in order to be consistent. I also admit that you need lots of consistency for drift as well, at least if you are competing but that the laps are much much more exciting.

So you can bash drifting all you want, I feel it is here to stay.......and don't knock it till you tried it.