Vehicle pricing database
01-20-18, 06:44 PM
#1
Vehicle pricing database
There is so much mystery surrounding the value of our cars. NADA, BlueBook, Auto Trader, they’re all wrong. The forum seems to be the most accurate reflection of the true values of our cars, yet we rarely know what they sell for, only what was being asked.
I think the forum could take on the challenge of asking people who sell their cars on the forum to anonymously submit details of the sale of their car. We can come up with some basic criteria and classify them in some basic categories. Stock, Semi-Stock, Modified - as an example.
By doing this we can provide a vital tool for the entire RX-7 community which will help us all gauge the value of our cars instead of guessing and either pricing it too low and basically giving the car away, or over pricing it and sitting on the car for ages.
Can we do this?
Nick
I think the forum could take on the challenge of asking people who sell their cars on the forum to anonymously submit details of the sale of their car. We can come up with some basic criteria and classify them in some basic categories. Stock, Semi-Stock, Modified - as an example.
By doing this we can provide a vital tool for the entire RX-7 community which will help us all gauge the value of our cars instead of guessing and either pricing it too low and basically giving the car away, or over pricing it and sitting on the car for ages.
Can we do this?
Nick
01-23-18, 10:28 AM
#2
rotorhole
1 million dollars
it's actually not super complicated, the high end of the FDs is $20k, FC is $10k, FB is $6k, SA22C $8-10k and pre RX7 is however much you can get for your old school, some go for $30k+.
posting up prices doesn't really do much, because the market is always changing.
it's actually not super complicated, the high end of the FDs is $20k, FC is $10k, FB is $6k, SA22C $8-10k and pre RX7 is however much you can get for your old school, some go for $30k+.
posting up prices doesn't really do much, because the market is always changing.
Last edited by insightful; 01-23-18 at 10:33 AM.
01-23-18, 11:13 AM
#3
Full Member
US RX-7 prices seem to be ahead of Canadian... the flooding of our market with RHD's has dropped the value of the LHD's because all the millennials would rather pay 10k for a **** RHD than 20-30K for a quality LHD ....
Prepare yourselves USA.....
Prepare yourselves USA.....
01-23-18, 11:23 AM
#4
Not all RHD are junk, I hate that bias
I understand the preference for LHD in Canada/USA, but there are justified exceptions. Anyway - the bigger issue is not the RHD itself, but that the majority of people that buy them don't want to spend much money and then avoid proper maintenance. This then further perpetuates the misconception of rotaries being unreliable
01-23-18, 11:25 AM
#5
I think the unexpected outcome of Fritz thread shows the pricing to be more like $30k
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
01-23-18, 11:29 AM
#6
Full Member
Not all RHD are junk, I hate that bias
I understand the preference for LHD in Canada/USA, but there are justified exceptions. Anyway - the bigger issue is not the RHD itself, but that the majority of people that buy them don't want to spend much money and then avoid proper maintenance. This then further perpetuates the misconception of rotaries being unreliable
I understand the preference for LHD in Canada/USA, but there are justified exceptions. Anyway - the bigger issue is not the RHD itself, but that the majority of people that buy them don't want to spend much money and then avoid proper maintenance. This then further perpetuates the misconception of rotaries being unreliable
I worded my statement poorly, I meant shitty as in ... literally shitty - (poorly taken care of, sun faded, old technology, shipyard junk).... not trying to say all RHD's are junk, because that is definitely not true. I hold no bias on owning a RHD vs LHD... I chose LHD for the clean history and insurance reasons. Edit: and resale value (not that i plan on selling, so its kinda a crap reason lol)
01-23-18, 12:19 PM
#7
rotorhole
I think the unexpected outcome of Fritz thread shows the pricing to be more like $30k
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
there's an FD on this site for sale right now that started at $28k and has since dropped to $16k and still is for sale, and it's not a trashed out junker either.
i live in the real world, where things actually go when you put a price tag on them. now if you had a sub 20k mile FD, 1 owner, always garaged and in mint condition you possibly could get $30k but im talking about average cars that most people own, not the exceptions.
and the RHD FDs haven't put much of a dent in the market, i'm not sure why anyone would think such a thing.
anyways, there is far too many variables to put into a list for car values of older vehicles. you start high and work your way down to what someone is willing to pay, end of story. if you think your FD will someday be able to be sold and buy a nice new house in the suburbs or retire off what you sell it for, that's a nice story too because they're about peaked out and just following inflation at this point.
Last edited by insightful; 01-23-18 at 12:26 PM.
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01-23-18, 11:23 PM
#8
Every response to this thread thus far further validates the need for a database. Maybe the moderators could send out a survey of sorts to all the sellers from closed threads for the past year and we can compile that data. We’d have all the variables: mileage, condition, original asking price and the selling price. I’d be happy to help and we could do it anonymously where no specific car is singled out, it’s just taken in aggregate.
I mean look look at this thread and see how much speculation and in some cases poor reasoning is being used to justify pricing. The market should be the dictator of price, not opinion.
Nick
I mean look look at this thread and see how much speculation and in some cases poor reasoning is being used to justify pricing. The market should be the dictator of price, not opinion.
Nick
01-24-18, 01:03 AM
#9
rotorhole
poor reasoning? screw off. not my fault if you want to think there is FDs going for $35k out there quite often, based on one or 2 examples i've seen of nearly new showroom condition cars that haven't even sold yet. there is also the $50k near mint one at that exotic car lot.
Last edited by insightful; 01-24-18 at 01:06 AM.
01-24-18, 09:34 AM
#10
poor reasoning? screw off. not my fault if you want to think there is FDs going for $35k out there quite often, based on one or 2 examples i've seen of nearly new showroom condition cars that haven't even sold yet. there is also the $50k near mint one at that exotic car lot.
I never mentioned you specifically. You shouldn’t be so quick to insult those who don’t insult you. It’s unbecoming and shows a lack of class and intelligence. I don’t even want to sell my RX-7. I’m trying to shed light on what I perceive to be a major issue within our community. As we speak, there is a guy trying to get $45k for his ‘95 SSM R2 with over 100k miles and a non-functioning odometer. It’s a complete joke. The reason this board member thought he could get that price is because of fanciful, delusional people who try to get outrageous prices for their cars, sometimes. I think as more people begin to view the 90’s Japanese supercars as potential collector cars, it’d be helpful, perhaps even important, that we establish some clear understanding of their true values. For example, I know that my insurance company will probably only give me around $18k for my FD because they only go by NADA book values. However, I know - or I should say I think, I can get closer to $25k if I did sell it in today’s market, based on what I’ve seen others for sale for which are in similar condition etc.. But, it’s a guess on my part because the fact is, those are asking prices and we very rarely know what someone actually paid. I didn’t pay the asking price for my FD and you probably didn’t pay the asking price for your 7 either. So, the asking price is effectively worthless in these discussions.Nick
Last edited by Brilliant7-LFC; 01-24-18 at 09:37 AM.
01-24-18, 03:08 PM
#12
I never mentioned you specifically. You shouldn’t be so quick to insult those who don’t insult you. It’s unbecoming and shows a lack of class and intelligence. I don’t even want to sell my RX-7. I’m trying to shed light on what I perceive to be a major issue within our community. As we speak, there is a guy trying to get $45k for his ‘95 SSM R2 with over 100k miles and a non-functioning odometer. It’s a complete joke. The reason this board member thought he could get that price is because of fanciful, delusional people who try to get outrageous prices for their cars, sometimes. I think as more people begin to view the 90’s Japanese supercars as potential collector cars, it’d be helpful, perhaps even important, that we establish some clear understanding of their true values. For example, I know that my insurance company will probably only give me around $18k for my FD because they only go by NADA book values. However, I know - or I should say I think, I can get closer to $25k if I did sell it in today’s market, based on what I’ve seen others for sale for which are in similar condition etc.. But, it’s a guess on my part because the fact is, those are asking prices and we very rarely know what someone actually paid. I didn’t pay the asking price for my FD and you probably didn’t pay the asking price for your 7 either. So, the asking price is effectively worthless in these discussions.Nick
Thanks for the most flattering comments. But let’s be serious here. No need to bash on people because of what they put up for asking prices. I may be off or maybe to low, but we all know quite a bit of infomrmation about these cars. Logic says if production ceases, and limited quantity exists, and condition is there, that would justify the basic demand vs. supply graph. Let’s see only 57 R2’s producer in 1995, last year the FD was brought into the US, and only 16 SSM R2’s produced. You can justify a price for a base, touring car as the same price of a very rare limited R2 which has all history, paperwork, original sticker price, clean title as a car to be categorized in the same price range as a normal packaged Rx7 from other years let alone same year? I think not bud. It is very apparent your thought process is not in the basic economics principals. I am sure if you owned this car you would highly consider your car much more valuable then then just a base or even a touring model? Or maybe I’m just out of it and my justification for an unmolested and stock car which has not been riced out or modified and raced is out of reach. Think about it. There are sooo many rollers, modified riced out versions and let alone crashed cars and stolen cars, the population of these cars keep dimenshing which makes them the more valuable then they were with the original quantitys produced. Think again before you and the rest of the incapable folks who can’t appreciate a rare car priced higher then the standard cars on here. It’s just common principals of economics my friend. Just my .02 cents
01-24-18, 03:30 PM
#13
I worded my statement poorly, I meant shitty as in ... literally shitty - (poorly taken care of, sun faded, old technology, shipyard junk).... not trying to say all RHD's are junk, because that is definitely not true. I hold no bias on owning a RHD vs LHD... I chose LHD for the clean history and insurance reasons. Edit: and resale value (not that i plan on selling, so its kinda a crap reason lol)
I do agree however about the horrendous condition of the majority of cheap RHD brought into Canada, not just RX7's.
Anyway - regarding insurance - I will send you a PM that may help protect your investment
01-24-18, 08:09 PM
#14
Thanks for the most flattering comments. But let’s be serious here. No need to bash on people because of what they put up for asking prices. I may be off or maybe to low, but we all know quite a bit of infomrmation about these cars. Logic says if production ceases, and limited quantity exists, and condition is there, that would justify the basic demand vs. supply graph. Let’s see only 57 R2’s producer in 1995, last year the FD was brought into the US, and only 16 SSM R2’s produced. You can justify a price for a base, touring car as the same price of a very rare limited R2 which has all history, paperwork, original sticker price, clean title as a car to be categorized in the same price range as a normal packaged Rx7 from other years let alone same year? I think not bud. It is very apparent your thought process is not in the basic economics principals. I am sure if you owned this car you would highly consider your car much more valuable then then just a base or even a touring model? Or maybe I’m just out of it and my justification for an unmolested and stock car which has not been riced out or modified and raced is out of reach. Think about it. There are sooo many rollers, modified riced out versions and let alone crashed cars and stolen cars, the population of these cars keep dimenshing which makes them the more valuable then they were with the original quantitys produced. Think again before you and the rest of the incapable folks who can’t appreciate a rare car priced higher then the standard cars on here. It’s just common principals of economics my friend. Just my .02 cents
To be clear, I did not start this thread with the intention of debating the value of ‘95 SSM R2’s. I didn’t direct any comments in your direction either, so as you said no need to bash on people, bud. The purpose of the database would be to eliminate your judgement and my judgement and back it up with statistics. Personally, I feel it’s the best way to ascertain true value of our cars. At this stage, our RX-7’s and in particular the third gen, is being written about as a future classic so prices are bound to go up, which I am happy about. However, I mentioned the example currently in the for sale section because it’s ludicrous for any, yourself included, to insinuate or try to justify a price 50% higher than the “average” price you see for a car that cannot ever be considered to be in true “collectors” condition. The car has over 130k miles for Christ sake. I know a guy who bought a CYM R1 all original, 100% stock with less than 30k miles and he paid $27k or $28k. I thought he overpaid slightly but the car quite literally smelled brand new and was 100% stock, all original and documented. That’s more of a collectors car than any with 130k miles, I don’t care how rare it is. Maybe in 20 years it will be the last original ‘95 SSM R2 and sell for a million bucks. If it all makes so much sense to you, maybe you should buy it because you clearly understand the collector game better than I...?Nick
01-25-18, 09:43 AM
#15
I like the idea, but there isn't a whole lot of incentive for people to share that information, and if you limit yourself to the forums, you are already working with a small sample size.
Threads like this are equally as valuable as a pricing database would be in my opinion -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
Threads like this are equally as valuable as a pricing database would be in my opinion -
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
01-25-18, 10:15 AM
#16
rotorhole
when selling a car you do your own due diligence in trying to find a fair starting asking price and work on it from there. most people selling cars don't come back and say "i sold my car for $30k!", instead they go on with their lives, mostly never coming back to a community they left. asking moderators to sift through and ask people what they got for their cars seems a bit of a selfish thing to ask, they are already volunteers here who do not get paid for their time.
and a lack of intelligence is not gauging a value for your own car, bud... for tact, i don't really care what people think of me anymore.
and a lack of intelligence is not gauging a value for your own car, bud... for tact, i don't really care what people think of me anymore.
Last edited by insightful; 01-25-18 at 10:19 AM.
01-25-18, 03:20 PM
#17
All out Track Freak!
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I think the unexpected outcome of Fritz thread shows the pricing to be more like $30k
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...-more-1111539/
That said no doubt it's becoming easier hehe. Here's the last FD I sold for 25k: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...1067176/page4/
Actually just bought it back as well. It's not your average FD.
This is also not your average FD either: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...leage-1120679/
Example of how hard it is to sell an avg (even when highly modded) FD for 25k or more: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...odded-1122120/
blah blah blah.......... bottomline: VERY few FDs are selling for 25k much less 30k and above.
01-25-18, 09:32 PM
#18
I assume you've seen the statistics page on Bring A Trailer? They have links to every one they've sold and those typically bring in top dollar for the condition and mileage after they are publicly scrutinized down to the last visible nut and bolt. If you're asking more than the highest auctioned price on that site, it's going to take a long time to find a buyer if you ever find one.
Aside from that, I think we have pretty much reached the point where all car "collecting" to make it big is tapped out. There's nothing you can buy today worth less than $50k that's going to increase substantially, beyond the rate of a retirement fund anyway. Save your money for the next market crash...that's when people will be unloading high value cars at discount prices and if you have cash flow you'll do better than buying something now where everyone is flush and listing stuff in hopes of catching a big fish.
Aside from that, I think we have pretty much reached the point where all car "collecting" to make it big is tapped out. There's nothing you can buy today worth less than $50k that's going to increase substantially, beyond the rate of a retirement fund anyway. Save your money for the next market crash...that's when people will be unloading high value cars at discount prices and if you have cash flow you'll do better than buying something now where everyone is flush and listing stuff in hopes of catching a big fish.
01-25-18, 09:41 PM
#19
rotorhole
hell, you can buy an audi S6 with a lambo V10(detuned) for less than $10k if you look around.
personally i think i'd rather have the audi than an FD that likely will need a few more rebuilds in the next 20 years. they sound much nicer too and actually last a good long while regardless of it being a high strung engine.
point is, there is lots of cars coming down in value like rocks that trump the FD in some ways. a 2007 audi S6 for example came with an original pricetag of over $100k. if complexity and repairs are an issue of comparison, well i'll remind everyone that they're talking about an FD, which is still about as complex as a car could be. even my hybrid which has split electric and gasoline is much easier to work on. don't like audi? there's some high end AMGs that are plenty sporty and have way more all around power than the FD for affordable pricetags relatively speaking. in fact, there's loads of cars that produce over 350whp/tq for less than $20k on the market now. i could probably go find a running car that can beat a stock FD in a straight line for $3k or under on craigslist within 50 miles in 15 minutes or less.
having a car with a cult following eventually the prices will peak out, because the novelty has to end sometime.
hell, i just worked for a customer who had a super low mile near mint TII with addons that were rare, he was done with the car and didn't care about anything collector status BS or anything of the like and sold it as quick as he could find a buyer for a modest price. the rotary is quite simply unreliable and i have a hard time understanding why they have even come to the point that they have aside from them just being uniquely powered.
this coming from someone with a TII with about $30k invested into it that's still only worth 1/3 of that on a very good day, which is going bye bye as soon as i can get it painted and small bits ironed out.
personally i think i'd rather have the audi than an FD that likely will need a few more rebuilds in the next 20 years. they sound much nicer too and actually last a good long while regardless of it being a high strung engine.
point is, there is lots of cars coming down in value like rocks that trump the FD in some ways. a 2007 audi S6 for example came with an original pricetag of over $100k. if complexity and repairs are an issue of comparison, well i'll remind everyone that they're talking about an FD, which is still about as complex as a car could be. even my hybrid which has split electric and gasoline is much easier to work on. don't like audi? there's some high end AMGs that are plenty sporty and have way more all around power than the FD for affordable pricetags relatively speaking. in fact, there's loads of cars that produce over 350whp/tq for less than $20k on the market now. i could probably go find a running car that can beat a stock FD in a straight line for $3k or under on craigslist within 50 miles in 15 minutes or less.
having a car with a cult following eventually the prices will peak out, because the novelty has to end sometime.
hell, i just worked for a customer who had a super low mile near mint TII with addons that were rare, he was done with the car and didn't care about anything collector status BS or anything of the like and sold it as quick as he could find a buyer for a modest price. the rotary is quite simply unreliable and i have a hard time understanding why they have even come to the point that they have aside from them just being uniquely powered.
this coming from someone with a TII with about $30k invested into it that's still only worth 1/3 of that on a very good day, which is going bye bye as soon as i can get it painted and small bits ironed out.
Last edited by insightful; 01-25-18 at 10:03 PM.
01-25-18, 09:51 PM
#20
I think you're better off finding the most expensive retired race car you can realistically afford, preferably one that won a few races in its day or was driven by a well know driver. No one cares about race car mileage as long as it runs and drives, so you can exercise it all you want as long as you don't crash it...but even if you do, it can be rebuilt and still be the car that won xyz. It's guaranteed to be a 1of1.
01-27-18, 11:48 AM
#21
Junior Member
yeah ive seen plenty listed for $30k, not that they have been moving very quickly or at all. usually they're all modded up and the seller has hopes of recouping a chunk of their investment.
there's an FD on this site for sale right now that started at $28k and has since dropped to $16k and still is for sale, and it's not a trashed out junker either. ...
there's an FD on this site for sale right now that started at $28k and has since dropped to $16k and still is for sale, and it's not a trashed out junker either. ...
Are you referring to this one? https://www.rx7club.com/se-sale-want...x-7-a-1095979/
02-03-18, 08:21 PM
#22
Have your S6 and eat it too
hell, you can buy an audi S6 with a lambo V10(detuned) for less than $10k if you look around.
personally i think i'd rather have the audi than an FD that likely will need a few more rebuilds in the next 20 years. they sound much nicer too and actually last a good long while regardless of it being a high strung engine.
point is, there is lots of cars coming down in value like rocks that trump the FD in some ways. a 2007 audi S6 for example came with an original pricetag of over $100k. if complexity and repairs are an issue of comparison, well i'll remind everyone that they're talking about an FD, which is still about as complex as a car could be. even my hybrid which has split electric and gasoline is much easier to work on. don't like audi? there's some high end AMGs that are plenty sporty and have way more all around power than the FD for affordable pricetags relatively speaking. in fact, there's loads of cars that produce over 350whp/tq for less than $20k on the market now. i could probably go find a running car that can beat a stock FD in a straight line for $3k or under on craigslist within 50 miles in 15 minutes or less.
having a car with a cult following eventually the prices will peak out, because the novelty has to end sometime.
hell, i just worked for a customer who had a super low mile near mint TII with addons that were rare, he was done with the car and didn't care about anything collector status BS or anything of the like and sold it as quick as he could find a buyer for a modest price. the rotary is quite simply unreliable and i have a hard time understanding why they have even come to the point that they have aside from them just being uniquely powered.
this coming from someone with a TII with about $30k invested into it that's still only worth 1/3 of that on a very good day, which is going bye bye as soon as i can get it painted and small bits ironed out.
personally i think i'd rather have the audi than an FD that likely will need a few more rebuilds in the next 20 years. they sound much nicer too and actually last a good long while regardless of it being a high strung engine.
point is, there is lots of cars coming down in value like rocks that trump the FD in some ways. a 2007 audi S6 for example came with an original pricetag of over $100k. if complexity and repairs are an issue of comparison, well i'll remind everyone that they're talking about an FD, which is still about as complex as a car could be. even my hybrid which has split electric and gasoline is much easier to work on. don't like audi? there's some high end AMGs that are plenty sporty and have way more all around power than the FD for affordable pricetags relatively speaking. in fact, there's loads of cars that produce over 350whp/tq for less than $20k on the market now. i could probably go find a running car that can beat a stock FD in a straight line for $3k or under on craigslist within 50 miles in 15 minutes or less.
having a car with a cult following eventually the prices will peak out, because the novelty has to end sometime.
hell, i just worked for a customer who had a super low mile near mint TII with addons that were rare, he was done with the car and didn't care about anything collector status BS or anything of the like and sold it as quick as he could find a buyer for a modest price. the rotary is quite simply unreliable and i have a hard time understanding why they have even come to the point that they have aside from them just being uniquely powered.
this coming from someone with a TII with about $30k invested into it that's still only worth 1/3 of that on a very good day, which is going bye bye as soon as i can get it painted and small bits ironed out.
Last edited by Redbul; 02-03-18 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Grammer
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