Project OldTree: The 12 Days of Rotormas
01-12-12, 01:39 PM
#251
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he's doing a lot of reengineering. mine was a lot simpler, i just ran everything stock. not that there is anything wrong with either way, but there is a whole page of this thread about what size battery to run.
01-12-12, 07:13 PM
#252
As j9fd3s said, I've had to re-engineer a few things here & there. It's definitely a learning process and that's why I say a 20B swap is earned, not bought. Mostly, it's been learning that some of the shortcuts I took early on wouldn't work. All in all, it's been a blast finding the needle in every haystack to solve each issue that has come up.
For me, this whole project has been a rite of passage, serving as the final exam for everything I've learned about cars since I began with the Mirage in 2002. Believe it or not, the first forum post I made on the Mirage Forums was asking if a catback would remedy a leaking flexpipe
On that note, I pulled the starter and battery cables today to get them tested with the battery. Autozone said the FC's battery was fine but needed charged and the starter was bad. Not feeling at ease with that, I took it to Oreilly Auto Parts down the street for a second opinion. Battery tested good but needed charged, and starter tested good as well. Final diagnosis is the starter cables are shot. They had several breaks in the insulation when I cleaned them up last year, having been on the car since 11/11/1986. I'm slightly embarrassed to say, but what probably pushed them over the edge at the already-weakened points was me forgetting to disconnect them before Lynn & I removed the engine a few months ago.
So $14 later, fresh cables are going on the car, starter reinstalled and battery getting a nice, slow charge. Tomorrow's forecast is 1-3 inches of snow, and hopefully the awakening of a new rotorkind!
For me, this whole project has been a rite of passage, serving as the final exam for everything I've learned about cars since I began with the Mirage in 2002. Believe it or not, the first forum post I made on the Mirage Forums was asking if a catback would remedy a leaking flexpipe
On that note, I pulled the starter and battery cables today to get them tested with the battery. Autozone said the FC's battery was fine but needed charged and the starter was bad. Not feeling at ease with that, I took it to Oreilly Auto Parts down the street for a second opinion. Battery tested good but needed charged, and starter tested good as well. Final diagnosis is the starter cables are shot. They had several breaks in the insulation when I cleaned them up last year, having been on the car since 11/11/1986. I'm slightly embarrassed to say, but what probably pushed them over the edge at the already-weakened points was me forgetting to disconnect them before Lynn & I removed the engine a few months ago.
So $14 later, fresh cables are going on the car, starter reinstalled and battery getting a nice, slow charge. Tomorrow's forecast is 1-3 inches of snow, and hopefully the awakening of a new rotorkind!
01-13-12, 12:15 AM
#253
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As j9fd3s said, I've had to re-engineer a few things here & there. It's definitely a learning process and that's why I say a 20B swap is earned, not bought. Mostly, it's been learning that some of the shortcuts I took early on wouldn't work. All in all, it's been a blast finding the needle in every haystack to solve each issue that has come up.
For me, this whole project has been a rite of passage, serving as the final exam for everything I've learned about cars since I began with the Mirage in 2002. Believe it or not, the first forum post I made on the Mirage Forums was asking if a catback would remedy a leaking flexpipe
On that note, I pulled the starter and battery cables today to get them tested with the battery. Autozone said the FC's battery was fine but needed charged and the starter was bad. Not feeling at ease with that, I took it to Oreilly Auto Parts down the street for a second opinion. Battery tested good but needed charged, and starter tested good as well. Final diagnosis is the starter cables are shot. They had several breaks in the insulation when I cleaned them up last year, having been on the car since 11/11/1986. I'm slightly embarrassed to say, but what probably pushed them over the edge at the already-weakened points was me forgetting to disconnect them before Lynn & I removed the engine a few months ago.
So $14 later, fresh cables are going on the car, starter reinstalled and battery getting a nice, slow charge. Tomorrow's forecast is 1-3 inches of snow, and hopefully the awakening of a new rotorkind!
For me, this whole project has been a rite of passage, serving as the final exam for everything I've learned about cars since I began with the Mirage in 2002. Believe it or not, the first forum post I made on the Mirage Forums was asking if a catback would remedy a leaking flexpipe
On that note, I pulled the starter and battery cables today to get them tested with the battery. Autozone said the FC's battery was fine but needed charged and the starter was bad. Not feeling at ease with that, I took it to Oreilly Auto Parts down the street for a second opinion. Battery tested good but needed charged, and starter tested good as well. Final diagnosis is the starter cables are shot. They had several breaks in the insulation when I cleaned them up last year, having been on the car since 11/11/1986. I'm slightly embarrassed to say, but what probably pushed them over the edge at the already-weakened points was me forgetting to disconnect them before Lynn & I removed the engine a few months ago.
So $14 later, fresh cables are going on the car, starter reinstalled and battery getting a nice, slow charge. Tomorrow's forecast is 1-3 inches of snow, and hopefully the awakening of a new rotorkind!
01-17-12, 07:21 PM
#254
The Current Situation
Well the starter has puttered along at the same 150rpm despite new cables. Since the battery and starter tested fine, and it has new cables to the junction and ground, there's only one thing left: the long cable from the hatch to the junction point. Apparently THHN Cable just can't deliver enough amperage because of the thick strands in it. So once again, our lord and savior Aaron Cake was correct.
A visit to DeLille Welding Supply fixed that with 20ft of 4awg Welding Cable at $1.58/ft and some good lugs for $1.18 each. Circuit breakers should arrive tomorrow from Sonic Electronix, so it'll all be wired up as soon as they arrive. I'm using two 150A Xscorpion breakers for $10 each. Yes, it is overkill but there is a method to the madness.
Rear breaker will be connected the normal way: as close to the battery as possible, with a 40A fused bypass like Aaron Cake did. The output from that will go into the Delivery Cable up to the front breaker and the haltech circuit running parallel to it. The front breaker will have the starter on the same stud as the Delivery Cable and original fuse panel, while the alternator is on the other side. The logic to this arrangement is for easy failure mode diagnosis by just looking at the in-dash Voltmeter.
Having blown one 120A main fuse before, and seen the Alternator Cable short out on the UIM (cable pulled loose from the terminal) on the 13B and not blow the fuse, having a breaker up front ensures that everything is protected by disconnecting the alternator from everything else should it ever happen again.
If the alternator cable somehow dead shorts against the chassis or engine, it'll trip the front breaker first, voltmeter will drop to 12 volts and the alternator warning light will turn on, while the engine will continue to run on battery power. With a single breaker, it would blow the main fuse first (shortest distance), and then trip the breaker second, cutting power to everything and making the car not drivable until the fuse is replaced. This can be pretty hard to do at 2AM when the only open store around is Walmart, whom does not carry underhood fusible links.
If my car is ever on the side of the road, it won't be for stupid **** like a blown main fuse. It'll be for something that absolutely requires being towed, or I'll have fixed it on the spot. So once the bin swap is done, the other bin will be occupied by a emergency kit with the following items in it, all inspired by the Master of Jerry-Rigging: MACGYVER.
1/4" drive 4-13mm regular & deepwell Socket Set (the Popular Mechanics one I've referred to several times in this thread)
33 piece Screwdriver Bit Set, plus a hex to 1/4" square drive adapter
6" Crescent Wrench
Needle Nose Pliers w/cutting edge
Vise Grips
Wire Strippers/Crimpers, electrical tape & terminal assortment (including two battery lugs)
Multimeter
Small hammer & 1"x4"x4" wood block
Gloves & Poncho
Two LED lights w/hanging hooks, rechargeable with hand crank & USB
4awg Jumper Cables made using welding cable
2-port USB phone charger & appropriate cable for my phone (in center console)
With only 14 tools, it will cover nearly any possible roadside emergency, up to having to crimp on new battery lugs using the largest flathead screwdriver bit, socket spinner handle, hammer & vise grips. Anything bigger than this emergency kit would require being towed home or a floor jack and stands to repair, so I've omitted those scenarios in favor of being able to have a charged cell phone regardless of the car's battery.
That idea came from my friend Todd. A couple years ago, the power at his house went out while I was there. Since he lives out in the woods, AT&T gave him a mini-tower so he'd have cell service. No power means he had no phone and his landline was through Time Warner so that was KO'ed as well. Since my cell is on T-mobile, I had a weak signal but a very low battery. So we brought out his LED camping lanterns. One of them powered by either a hand crank or batteries, has a radio and a USB port for phone charging along with a short cable & adapters for the major kinds of phones. Thankfully, there was one for my G1 so we could call the electric company to get out there. Thought it'd be a good idea to take that sensibility in the car.
A visit to DeLille Welding Supply fixed that with 20ft of 4awg Welding Cable at $1.58/ft and some good lugs for $1.18 each. Circuit breakers should arrive tomorrow from Sonic Electronix, so it'll all be wired up as soon as they arrive. I'm using two 150A Xscorpion breakers for $10 each. Yes, it is overkill but there is a method to the madness.
Rear breaker will be connected the normal way: as close to the battery as possible, with a 40A fused bypass like Aaron Cake did. The output from that will go into the Delivery Cable up to the front breaker and the haltech circuit running parallel to it. The front breaker will have the starter on the same stud as the Delivery Cable and original fuse panel, while the alternator is on the other side. The logic to this arrangement is for easy failure mode diagnosis by just looking at the in-dash Voltmeter.
Having blown one 120A main fuse before, and seen the Alternator Cable short out on the UIM (cable pulled loose from the terminal) on the 13B and not blow the fuse, having a breaker up front ensures that everything is protected by disconnecting the alternator from everything else should it ever happen again.
If the alternator cable somehow dead shorts against the chassis or engine, it'll trip the front breaker first, voltmeter will drop to 12 volts and the alternator warning light will turn on, while the engine will continue to run on battery power. With a single breaker, it would blow the main fuse first (shortest distance), and then trip the breaker second, cutting power to everything and making the car not drivable until the fuse is replaced. This can be pretty hard to do at 2AM when the only open store around is Walmart, whom does not carry underhood fusible links.
If my car is ever on the side of the road, it won't be for stupid **** like a blown main fuse. It'll be for something that absolutely requires being towed, or I'll have fixed it on the spot. So once the bin swap is done, the other bin will be occupied by a emergency kit with the following items in it, all inspired by the Master of Jerry-Rigging: MACGYVER.
1/4" drive 4-13mm regular & deepwell Socket Set (the Popular Mechanics one I've referred to several times in this thread)
33 piece Screwdriver Bit Set, plus a hex to 1/4" square drive adapter
6" Crescent Wrench
Needle Nose Pliers w/cutting edge
Vise Grips
Wire Strippers/Crimpers, electrical tape & terminal assortment (including two battery lugs)
Multimeter
Small hammer & 1"x4"x4" wood block
Gloves & Poncho
Two LED lights w/hanging hooks, rechargeable with hand crank & USB
4awg Jumper Cables made using welding cable
2-port USB phone charger & appropriate cable for my phone (in center console)
With only 14 tools, it will cover nearly any possible roadside emergency, up to having to crimp on new battery lugs using the largest flathead screwdriver bit, socket spinner handle, hammer & vise grips. Anything bigger than this emergency kit would require being towed home or a floor jack and stands to repair, so I've omitted those scenarios in favor of being able to have a charged cell phone regardless of the car's battery.
That idea came from my friend Todd. A couple years ago, the power at his house went out while I was there. Since he lives out in the woods, AT&T gave him a mini-tower so he'd have cell service. No power means he had no phone and his landline was through Time Warner so that was KO'ed as well. Since my cell is on T-mobile, I had a weak signal but a very low battery. So we brought out his LED camping lanterns. One of them powered by either a hand crank or batteries, has a radio and a USB port for phone charging along with a short cable & adapters for the major kinds of phones. Thankfully, there was one for my G1 so we could call the electric company to get out there. Thought it'd be a good idea to take that sensibility in the car.
01-18-12, 11:27 AM
#255
I would consider keeping a fire extinguisher in the car as well. I had an RX-7 catch fire and it would have burned to the ground had I not decided I was going to start carrying a fire extinguisher that very night.
The fire was caused by a bad fuel injector o-ring.
The fire was caused by a bad fuel injector o-ring.
01-18-12, 06:26 PM
#256
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i used to know a guy who had a tool kit like that and it fit in a little black bag, that was maybe 6"x8"x4" seems like a really good idea. it was nice because he could go to the junkyard with that and get anything.
i don't ever carry tools though, just on principal. its a mazda not an audi!
i've been stuck a couple of times since 1993, one was in the SA. the point wire broke, but the insulation was fine, so it actually was fairly hard to fix, just because it wasn't obvious!
the other 2-3 times were with the 3 rotor because the haltech crashed.... just be aware that the 20B uses most of the outputs, and the haltech cannot handle that kind of load reliably. i would have said they fixed it, or its a fluke but HIGGI has the same problem....
i don't ever carry tools though, just on principal. its a mazda not an audi!
i've been stuck a couple of times since 1993, one was in the SA. the point wire broke, but the insulation was fine, so it actually was fairly hard to fix, just because it wasn't obvious!
the other 2-3 times were with the 3 rotor because the haltech crashed.... just be aware that the 20B uses most of the outputs, and the haltech cannot handle that kind of load reliably. i would have said they fixed it, or its a fluke but HIGGI has the same problem....
01-18-12, 06:49 PM
#257
I drive around with a small pouch of tools EVERYTIME I take my car out. Has enough to do everything short of a rebuild. It's not much either. Just lots of metric sockets and some of my wrenches. Granted, if I take my car out, it's only for a drive. Never to run errands and leave it some place.
01-18-12, 07:48 PM
#259
Always keep my portable tool kit in the driver side storage bin. A handy dual ended multi-tool handles all the wrench work and I've got a 1/4 drive socket set for the rest. A Leatherman pocket tool handles all teh little stuff and there's even a voltmeter for good measure.
It goes w/o saying that there is a full compliment of fuses in teh glovebox after grounding out the alt (trying to adjust the belt tension---what a POS tensioning system---) and blowing the main fuse. NEVER again.
My starter test "good" 4 times in a row @ O'riely's after trying to leave me stranded at a rainy junk yard just 15 min prior. On the 5th test, it showed its true colors. Now I have a lifetime warranty unit woot!
It goes w/o saying that there is a full compliment of fuses in teh glovebox after grounding out the alt (trying to adjust the belt tension---what a POS tensioning system---) and blowing the main fuse. NEVER again.
My starter test "good" 4 times in a row @ O'riely's after trying to leave me stranded at a rainy junk yard just 15 min prior. On the 5th test, it showed its true colors. Now I have a lifetime warranty unit woot!
01-22-12, 05:35 AM
#260
i used to know a guy who had a tool kit like that and it fit in a little black bag, that was maybe 6"x8"x4" seems like a really good idea. it was nice because he could go to the junkyard with that and get anything.
i don't ever carry tools though, just on principal. its a mazda not an audi!
i've been stuck a couple of times since 1993, one was in the SA. the point wire broke, but the insulation was fine, so it actually was fairly hard to fix, just because it wasn't obvious!
the other 2-3 times were with the 3 rotor because the haltech crashed.... just be aware that the 20B uses most of the outputs, and the haltech cannot handle that kind of load reliably. i would have said they fixed it, or its a fluke but HIGGI has the same problem....
i don't ever carry tools though, just on principal. its a mazda not an audi!
i've been stuck a couple of times since 1993, one was in the SA. the point wire broke, but the insulation was fine, so it actually was fairly hard to fix, just because it wasn't obvious!
the other 2-3 times were with the 3 rotor because the haltech crashed.... just be aware that the 20B uses most of the outputs, and the haltech cannot handle that kind of load reliably. i would have said they fixed it, or its a fluke but HIGGI has the same problem....
20B swap into FC is fun, especially when you skip shopping part and use mostly what you find around
01-23-12, 04:56 PM
#261
Today's progress
New cable is in the car for power & ground, breakers are on and it picked up an extra 30rpm when cranking just from that. Some cable rearranging under the hood produced a short, red cable for the battery to breaker connection. Crimped on the lugs as best as possible by hand using channel locks and it's now cranking at 180rpm.
Now I'm convinced that the starter & battery are both fine and since the main power path is known good 4awg cable, the only possible impairment now is the ground path. That is with questionable grounds for both the starter (stock fuse panel bracket bolt hole in strut tower) and battery (passenger side taillight ground).
Since the stock ground location is a pain to deal with, I decided to put a bolt through there backwards to make it that much easier to have a known solid ground spot that's visible and easily accessible. As for the battery ground, I'm still on the fence about that because of the long-term effects. My car has had drainage issues since day 1. The hatch drain tubes are plugged somewhere that I can't readily see. Tried unplugging them several times with a coathanger and nothing seems to work. In such a rust-prone area, I'm a bit reluctant to remove the paint for a ground connection that'll just be redone when I do the bin conversion.
Anyway, I'm looking for an uncut bin frame and storage bins now. Any color except red is fine, but my preference is Gray or Blue. If you have them, PM me and we'll hammer out a deal.
Now I'm convinced that the starter & battery are both fine and since the main power path is known good 4awg cable, the only possible impairment now is the ground path. That is with questionable grounds for both the starter (stock fuse panel bracket bolt hole in strut tower) and battery (passenger side taillight ground).
Since the stock ground location is a pain to deal with, I decided to put a bolt through there backwards to make it that much easier to have a known solid ground spot that's visible and easily accessible. As for the battery ground, I'm still on the fence about that because of the long-term effects. My car has had drainage issues since day 1. The hatch drain tubes are plugged somewhere that I can't readily see. Tried unplugging them several times with a coathanger and nothing seems to work. In such a rust-prone area, I'm a bit reluctant to remove the paint for a ground connection that'll just be redone when I do the bin conversion.
Anyway, I'm looking for an uncut bin frame and storage bins now. Any color except red is fine, but my preference is Gray or Blue. If you have them, PM me and we'll hammer out a deal.
01-26-12, 12:43 AM
#262
That 180rpm from last time was with a jump. After cleaning up and reinstalling the original ground cable in the stock spots and re-routing the new ground straight to the battery so it has a clean path to ground no matter what, the starter would only spin at 100rpm.
As soon as it was connected to the car with a full charge, both the Mirage and FC batteries dropped to 11.9 volts. Cranking made them plummet to 8.6v on the first attempt. Both batteries just have no grunt left. So that's what Autozone meant by "Lifespan Negative"
Been reviewing all of the choices for a new battery for awhile now and am pretty sure I'll be getting a Deka Intimidator 9A48 from Remy Battery. It's not Aaron Cake's 9A78DT, but the specs are slightly better for the same price. According to Deka's information, it's 1/2" shorter in height, 1/4" longer and packs in 15AH more while only sacrificing 15 CCA. The odd thing is that both the 9A78/DT/CDT and 9A48 both have a Reserve Capacity of 120 minutes, but the 9A48's rated capacity is 70AH compared to 55AH for the 9A78's.
Aren't Reserve Capacity and Rated AH Capacity measurements of the same information, similar to horsepower and kilowatts being measurements of work?
As soon as it was connected to the car with a full charge, both the Mirage and FC batteries dropped to 11.9 volts. Cranking made them plummet to 8.6v on the first attempt. Both batteries just have no grunt left. So that's what Autozone meant by "Lifespan Negative"
Been reviewing all of the choices for a new battery for awhile now and am pretty sure I'll be getting a Deka Intimidator 9A48 from Remy Battery. It's not Aaron Cake's 9A78DT, but the specs are slightly better for the same price. According to Deka's information, it's 1/2" shorter in height, 1/4" longer and packs in 15AH more while only sacrificing 15 CCA. The odd thing is that both the 9A78/DT/CDT and 9A48 both have a Reserve Capacity of 120 minutes, but the 9A48's rated capacity is 70AH compared to 55AH for the 9A78's.
Aren't Reserve Capacity and Rated AH Capacity measurements of the same information, similar to horsepower and kilowatts being measurements of work?
01-26-12, 10:14 AM
#263
rottary89
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It's not your battery from what you've been posting. I know you're trying to find the optimal battery for your setup, but believe me when I say this... I ran a LAWNMOWER battery for 2 years on my 13B-T, and as weak as that was… it even started the engine in the winter… it cost $35 brand new (half the size of a regular battery). I'm not saying you should go and buy a crappy lawnmower battery... lol. That battery could start the 20B as well btw.
I can tell you right now you have either of two problems:
- Poor electrical wiring of your main harness (starter, battery, alternator, main fuse box wiring) and you have a major drain/short
- High rotating resistance on the engine
It’s easy to check the second part: Put the car in neutral, make room so you can get good leverage to the main pulley, put a good grip glove on, turn the engine from the main pulley with your hand (no tools, no help, just one hand). If you can spin the engine clockwise with relative ease… then you have an electrical issue. If you can’t, there is something wrong with your engine.
Good luck and let me know how this works out.
I can tell you right now you have either of two problems:
- Poor electrical wiring of your main harness (starter, battery, alternator, main fuse box wiring) and you have a major drain/short
- High rotating resistance on the engine
It’s easy to check the second part: Put the car in neutral, make room so you can get good leverage to the main pulley, put a good grip glove on, turn the engine from the main pulley with your hand (no tools, no help, just one hand). If you can spin the engine clockwise with relative ease… then you have an electrical issue. If you can’t, there is something wrong with your engine.
Good luck and let me know how this works out.
01-27-12, 06:05 PM
#264
It's not your battery from what you've been posting. I know you're trying to find the optimal battery for your setup, but believe me when I say this... I ran a LAWNMOWER battery for 2 years on my 13B-T, and as weak as that was… it even started the engine in the winter… it cost $35 brand new (half the size of a regular battery). I'm not saying you should go and buy a crappy lawnmower battery... lol. That battery could start the 20B as well btw.
I can tell you right now you have either of two problems:
- Poor electrical wiring of your main harness (starter, battery, alternator, main fuse box wiring) and you have a major drain/short
- High rotating resistance on the engine
It’s easy to check the second part: Put the car in neutral, make room so you can get good leverage to the main pulley, put a good grip glove on, turn the engine from the main pulley with your hand (no tools, no help, just one hand). If you can spin the engine clockwise with relative ease… then you have an electrical issue. If you can’t, there is something wrong with your engine.
Good luck and let me know how this works out.
I can tell you right now you have either of two problems:
- Poor electrical wiring of your main harness (starter, battery, alternator, main fuse box wiring) and you have a major drain/short
- High rotating resistance on the engine
It’s easy to check the second part: Put the car in neutral, make room so you can get good leverage to the main pulley, put a good grip glove on, turn the engine from the main pulley with your hand (no tools, no help, just one hand). If you can spin the engine clockwise with relative ease… then you have an electrical issue. If you can’t, there is something wrong with your engine.
Good luck and let me know how this works out.
As for the electrical issues, I've got some doubts about the quality of those battery cables from Advance Auto. The lug terminals are excessively long compared to where the hole is. Granted, I'm not the greatest electrical engineer, but I place more faith in cable from the local welding store than something mass-produced in china for a 'civillian' parts store.
Once the engine is started up, I'm planning a major electrical overhaul. I really don't like how I did the electrical part of this build the first time. It was rushed, and my lack of planning foresight is showing now. Plus, the usual issues with using a universal part is becoming apparent. Overall, the plan is to rebuild the haltech harness to move the fuses & relays under the hood, eliminate all of the splices and excess wiring from the harness and package everything into a single panel which will cover absolutely every circuit under the hood. Haven't found the perfect fuse/relay panel yet, but it'll probably be from a 2000-ish small truck like a Ranger or Dakota. Something with a lot of different drivetrain options and extra spots for accessories like fog lights, winches, etc.
01-30-12, 11:40 AM
#265
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As soon as it was connected to the car with a full charge, both the Mirage and FC batteries dropped to 11.9 volts. Cranking made them plummet to 8.6v on the first attempt. Both batteries just have no grunt left. So that's what Autozone meant by "Lifespan Negative"
anyways, 8.6v cranking isn't enough to turn the haltech on, it'll need more than that.
i'm lazy, i'd hook both batteries up.
BTW i ran a PC680 with the stock FC battery cables for a while in mine. the battery is too small for the haltech in cold weather (this is how i know the ECU shuts off! i have this t shirt too). i later switched to a stock group35 battery in the bin
01-30-12, 08:08 PM
#267
maybe you do need a battery to start with? it shouldn't drop right away like that...
anyways, 8.6v cranking isn't enough to turn the haltech on, it'll need more than that.
i'm lazy, i'd hook both batteries up.
BTW i ran a PC680 with the stock FC battery cables for a while in mine. the battery is too small for the haltech in cold weather (this is how i know the ECU shuts off! i have this t shirt too). i later switched to a stock group35 battery in the bin
anyways, 8.6v cranking isn't enough to turn the haltech on, it'll need more than that.
i'm lazy, i'd hook both batteries up.
BTW i ran a PC680 with the stock FC battery cables for a while in mine. the battery is too small for the haltech in cold weather (this is how i know the ECU shuts off! i have this t shirt too). i later switched to a stock group35 battery in the bin
This coming week is gonna be busy as hell at work, so I won't be able to do any car work till the weekend. Gonna be making overtime like crazy and can't pass it up. But rest assured loyal followers that it will be well worth the wait.
02-11-12, 10:44 PM
#268
Well, last week wasn't horribly busy, so I did a little cleaning on the car's main ground spot. Should be much better now, so all eyes are on the battery.
Bought a storage bin frame, black bins & gray carpet from a guy in PA that makes his living parting out FBs and FCs. Wasn't happy with how the carpet arrived with the spare tire cover cut off, nor the appearance of the piece either. In all truth, my old RGIS shirts that are now shop rags look better than this.
Since this person didn't want to work with me on fixing the obvious usability problem, he'll be losing out on a few sales. Really sucks because I wanted the black front carpet he has, not happening now. He could have made $100 more with some customer service, but now he's getting nada from me.
Anyway, a couple guys are hooking me up with a complete black carpet set for less including shipping, and I got the wiring with bulbs from 87-T66 today so I'm happy. As for the butchered gray rear carpet, the only use I can come up for it is a cargo cover template and possibly the final covering for such if it'll come clean.
On a more fun note, I've got a little surprise for everyone with a standalone. LS2 Corvette Coolant Temperature Sensors are a perfect fit for the FC/FD water pump housing and the correct connector can be found at your local junkyard on any 1991+ fullsize GM Truck on the CTS. 92+ trucks have another one on the horn too. They look similar to the EGR solenoid connector, but have two cutouts so the whole thing looks like a mushroom. Grabbed two, one for the car and one for the workbench. ACDelco part number for the pigtail is PT1798.
Another awesome find on these trucks is on the firewall. Every single one from 1989 onwards has a 5-gang bus bar mounted on the passenger side of the firewall. M8x1.25 hardware on it, and the original use if for the main power distribution point.
Front breaker on my car has too many ring terminals on it at the moment, so I splurged and got 3 bus bars. I'm thinking 12v distribution point up front, a ground bus wired directly to the main chassis ground and a dedicated 5v bus. Might need to re-tap some of the studs to M6x1.0 for the smaller ring terminals. All in all, a good deal for $4 each.
Next update will be more epic, I promise.
Bought a storage bin frame, black bins & gray carpet from a guy in PA that makes his living parting out FBs and FCs. Wasn't happy with how the carpet arrived with the spare tire cover cut off, nor the appearance of the piece either. In all truth, my old RGIS shirts that are now shop rags look better than this.
Since this person didn't want to work with me on fixing the obvious usability problem, he'll be losing out on a few sales. Really sucks because I wanted the black front carpet he has, not happening now. He could have made $100 more with some customer service, but now he's getting nada from me.
Anyway, a couple guys are hooking me up with a complete black carpet set for less including shipping, and I got the wiring with bulbs from 87-T66 today so I'm happy. As for the butchered gray rear carpet, the only use I can come up for it is a cargo cover template and possibly the final covering for such if it'll come clean.
On a more fun note, I've got a little surprise for everyone with a standalone. LS2 Corvette Coolant Temperature Sensors are a perfect fit for the FC/FD water pump housing and the correct connector can be found at your local junkyard on any 1991+ fullsize GM Truck on the CTS. 92+ trucks have another one on the horn too. They look similar to the EGR solenoid connector, but have two cutouts so the whole thing looks like a mushroom. Grabbed two, one for the car and one for the workbench. ACDelco part number for the pigtail is PT1798.
Another awesome find on these trucks is on the firewall. Every single one from 1989 onwards has a 5-gang bus bar mounted on the passenger side of the firewall. M8x1.25 hardware on it, and the original use if for the main power distribution point.
Front breaker on my car has too many ring terminals on it at the moment, so I splurged and got 3 bus bars. I'm thinking 12v distribution point up front, a ground bus wired directly to the main chassis ground and a dedicated 5v bus. Might need to re-tap some of the studs to M6x1.0 for the smaller ring terminals. All in all, a good deal for $4 each.
Next update will be more epic, I promise.
02-12-12, 07:06 AM
#269
Any pics of the part?
Originally Posted by Akagis_white_comet
Once the engine is started up, I'm planning a major electrical overhaul. I really don't like how I did the electrical part of this build the first time.
02-18-12, 09:32 PM
#271
Teaser untill thursday...
Awesomeness is here, but this is just a teaser untill the main event coming this thursday.
The bus bars cleaned up decently with just some wire wheel treatment. Now I'm debating dragging out the spare battery and jerry-rigging an electrolysis cleaner so they are PERFECT...
Got a new IAT sensor from a well-known rotorhead in Tennessee, along with the stock sunroof tool for $20 shipped.
Did a mock-up assembly of the bins today. Being very unhappy with the price of hardware from the stealership, at $1.10 each (8 per bin), I re-tapped every single mounting hole for metric threads instead, M5x0.8 being the perfect size and just happened to be what I have the most of. Didn't take much effort to put threads in the fiberglass frame, only a steady hand and an extra washerhead bolt (from the LS2 Truck coils). Someday, I might get the JB Weld out to give it some captured nuts on the frame's underside for a more durable, permanent solution.
Also decided that the carpet clips needed to go. On the front and back, the middle one just didn't want to do its job. $2 and a broken & bleeding thumbnail later, the carpet will stay put, period.
I apologize for the poor photography, my hands were shaking a bit and didn't notice it till it was uploaded it to photobucket.
For clarification, each of those from inside to outside is a M5x0.8 bolt, M5 washer, 1/4" fender washer, then the bin plastic, another fender washer, the carpet, a 3rd fender washer, one more M5 washer and a M5x0.8 nut. This arrangement ensures that the carpet will not pull out or distort and will stay put without distorting the bin plastic.
What I had on hand was 30mm long bolts, but 20mm is sufficient for this purpose. The shorter rusty-ish ones are 18mm long washerhead bolts from the LS2 Truck coils and were perfect for under the bin lights.
The bus bars cleaned up decently with just some wire wheel treatment. Now I'm debating dragging out the spare battery and jerry-rigging an electrolysis cleaner so they are PERFECT...
Got a new IAT sensor from a well-known rotorhead in Tennessee, along with the stock sunroof tool for $20 shipped.
Did a mock-up assembly of the bins today. Being very unhappy with the price of hardware from the stealership, at $1.10 each (8 per bin), I re-tapped every single mounting hole for metric threads instead, M5x0.8 being the perfect size and just happened to be what I have the most of. Didn't take much effort to put threads in the fiberglass frame, only a steady hand and an extra washerhead bolt (from the LS2 Truck coils). Someday, I might get the JB Weld out to give it some captured nuts on the frame's underside for a more durable, permanent solution.
Also decided that the carpet clips needed to go. On the front and back, the middle one just didn't want to do its job. $2 and a broken & bleeding thumbnail later, the carpet will stay put, period.
I apologize for the poor photography, my hands were shaking a bit and didn't notice it till it was uploaded it to photobucket.
For clarification, each of those from inside to outside is a M5x0.8 bolt, M5 washer, 1/4" fender washer, then the bin plastic, another fender washer, the carpet, a 3rd fender washer, one more M5 washer and a M5x0.8 nut. This arrangement ensures that the carpet will not pull out or distort and will stay put without distorting the bin plastic.
What I had on hand was 30mm long bolts, but 20mm is sufficient for this purpose. The shorter rusty-ish ones are 18mm long washerhead bolts from the LS2 Truck coils and were perfect for under the bin lights.
02-26-12, 11:08 PM
#272
How to remove rear seats and NOT f**k up the bin frame
A simple How-To on the unanswered question of How to Remove the Rear Seat from a FC
First push DOWN at the front edge of the seat bottom, roughly in the middle of the 'cup' where the seat belts poke through. On that same spot, push it BACK, then pull straight up to release it. Repeat on the other end. Now rotate the seat bottom up and pull out. Be sure to push the seat belts down through their slots too.
Once the seat bottom is out, you'll see two M8x1.25 bolts on either side holding the seat back in. Get your favorite 12mm socket and extract them. Seat Belts take a 17mm socket for all 4 bolts and requite a good bit of leverage. 24" long pipe works well.
So with the seats out, one can see FIVE threaded holes near the back of the 'bowls'. These are where the rear of the bin frame bolt to. After removing the crossmember's frontside carpet (either 4 or 6 push-clips, I can't remember), you'll see FOUR threaded holes, two on each side of the transmission tunnel That is where the front of the bin frame bolts to. All 9 of these holes are M6x1.0 thread. The only quirk I see if that the frame has a 5th hole in front (in the middle) and it lines up with a hole in the crossmember that has nothing there...
The bin frame is two pieces that bolt together with FOUR M6x1.0 bolts. Do this first before attaching the frame to the car. Second, drop in the bins and attach using the self-tapping screws if you have them. If not, you can re-tap each hole for metric threads with the proper bolt. Fiberglass is SOFT, so go slow and be careful not to strip the threads. I did M5x0.8 since it is what I had on hand, but M6x1.0 would also work too.
As I was not confident in the durability of the threads cut into the fiberglass frame, I put a nut on each hole except the two side ones as they were too close to a lip to get a socket on the nut to snug it. Don't forget if you put nuts on here, or you'll strip the threads in the fiberglass like I did. It is very easy to do, and a bitch to fix with JB Weld once the whole rear end if assembled.
At first light, everything is going back in the car for final assembly. And with a little luck, I won't **** up the other bin's mounting holes
BONUS GAME:
#1: Re-Use the rear seat belts for cargo straps. You may need to flatten the anchor plates out or add some washers to clear the floorpan, but they will work much better than the FB leftovers that Mazda put in. Self-retracting and self-locking FTW!
#2: The Rear Seat Back bolt holes look like a great place for the battery's ground cable.
#3: If you're as lucky as I am, you'll see only shiny paint under the rear seat. Here in salt country, having zero rust here sure sounds like divine luck.
Speaking of rust, I made an electrolysis tank a few days ago and gave the bus bars the works. They are shiny now and will be getting fresh zinc electroplating made from pocket change. Should last another 20 years.
First push DOWN at the front edge of the seat bottom, roughly in the middle of the 'cup' where the seat belts poke through. On that same spot, push it BACK, then pull straight up to release it. Repeat on the other end. Now rotate the seat bottom up and pull out. Be sure to push the seat belts down through their slots too.
Once the seat bottom is out, you'll see two M8x1.25 bolts on either side holding the seat back in. Get your favorite 12mm socket and extract them. Seat Belts take a 17mm socket for all 4 bolts and requite a good bit of leverage. 24" long pipe works well.
So with the seats out, one can see FIVE threaded holes near the back of the 'bowls'. These are where the rear of the bin frame bolt to. After removing the crossmember's frontside carpet (either 4 or 6 push-clips, I can't remember), you'll see FOUR threaded holes, two on each side of the transmission tunnel That is where the front of the bin frame bolts to. All 9 of these holes are M6x1.0 thread. The only quirk I see if that the frame has a 5th hole in front (in the middle) and it lines up with a hole in the crossmember that has nothing there...
The bin frame is two pieces that bolt together with FOUR M6x1.0 bolts. Do this first before attaching the frame to the car. Second, drop in the bins and attach using the self-tapping screws if you have them. If not, you can re-tap each hole for metric threads with the proper bolt. Fiberglass is SOFT, so go slow and be careful not to strip the threads. I did M5x0.8 since it is what I had on hand, but M6x1.0 would also work too.
As I was not confident in the durability of the threads cut into the fiberglass frame, I put a nut on each hole except the two side ones as they were too close to a lip to get a socket on the nut to snug it. Don't forget if you put nuts on here, or you'll strip the threads in the fiberglass like I did. It is very easy to do, and a bitch to fix with JB Weld once the whole rear end if assembled.
At first light, everything is going back in the car for final assembly. And with a little luck, I won't **** up the other bin's mounting holes
BONUS GAME:
#1: Re-Use the rear seat belts for cargo straps. You may need to flatten the anchor plates out or add some washers to clear the floorpan, but they will work much better than the FB leftovers that Mazda put in. Self-retracting and self-locking FTW!
#2: The Rear Seat Back bolt holes look like a great place for the battery's ground cable.
#3: If you're as lucky as I am, you'll see only shiny paint under the rear seat. Here in salt country, having zero rust here sure sounds like divine luck.
Speaking of rust, I made an electrolysis tank a few days ago and gave the bus bars the works. They are shiny now and will be getting fresh zinc electroplating made from pocket change. Should last another 20 years.
03-17-12, 12:04 AM
#274
Macgyvering a Starter Tester with a telephone, multimeter and battery
Starter is shot, so I got a new one at autozone and installed it. Turn the key and...nothing
Took both in and they both passed. Unfortunately, they did not have a tachometer on the machine to measure actual rotation speed, only current draw and voltage at said current draw. Both were around drawing 72 amps with no load. They sounded a little different from each other and it gave me an idea.
To test your starter, go on youtube and find the theme song to a certain show known for jerry-rigging (season 7 is the best quality for this). To do this, we'll need an android phone, two old power cables, spare car battery, multimeter and a test lead preferably with two alligator clips. I'm including my figures in parentheses for reference.
1. Read the voltage at the battery terminals. (12.10v, I know it's weak lol). A weak battery will skew your numbers lower, so ensure your battery is near a full charge.
2. On the Android Phone, bring up DaTuner and orient the mouthpiece toward the starter
3. Hook up the starter to the battery with the two cables. Positive to solenoid terminal, negative to body.
4. Connect one end of the test lead to the ignition switch terminal and place near the positive terminal.
5. Touch the test lead to the battery's positive terminal and watch the screen's Hertz display (bottom left corner). Write down the number once it stops bouncing around (260hz for old starter, 350hz for new one)
Multiply your Hertz number by 8.08 to get the RPM on the bench (2100rpm). I chose 2 decimal places for ease of memory and being within 1rpm for this test.
From this, divide by 12 to get the approximate cranking rpm (175rpm). 12:1 here comes from the starter diagnosis and compression test information in the FSM (3000rpm starter rpm on the bench, 250rpm minimum rpm to do a compression test)
Old starter was turning at 175rpm loaded (2100rpm unloaded), with a frequency of 260hz
New starter has a frequency of 350hz, which translates to 2828rpm on the bench (with a weak battery) and means 235.667rpm when mounted on the engine. Should be plenty to get it started up with a low battery.
Took both in and they both passed. Unfortunately, they did not have a tachometer on the machine to measure actual rotation speed, only current draw and voltage at said current draw. Both were around drawing 72 amps with no load. They sounded a little different from each other and it gave me an idea.
To test your starter, go on youtube and find the theme song to a certain show known for jerry-rigging (season 7 is the best quality for this). To do this, we'll need an android phone, two old power cables, spare car battery, multimeter and a test lead preferably with two alligator clips. I'm including my figures in parentheses for reference.
1. Read the voltage at the battery terminals. (12.10v, I know it's weak lol). A weak battery will skew your numbers lower, so ensure your battery is near a full charge.
2. On the Android Phone, bring up DaTuner and orient the mouthpiece toward the starter
3. Hook up the starter to the battery with the two cables. Positive to solenoid terminal, negative to body.
4. Connect one end of the test lead to the ignition switch terminal and place near the positive terminal.
5. Touch the test lead to the battery's positive terminal and watch the screen's Hertz display (bottom left corner). Write down the number once it stops bouncing around (260hz for old starter, 350hz for new one)
Multiply your Hertz number by 8.08 to get the RPM on the bench (2100rpm). I chose 2 decimal places for ease of memory and being within 1rpm for this test.
From this, divide by 12 to get the approximate cranking rpm (175rpm). 12:1 here comes from the starter diagnosis and compression test information in the FSM (3000rpm starter rpm on the bench, 250rpm minimum rpm to do a compression test)
Old starter was turning at 175rpm loaded (2100rpm unloaded), with a frequency of 260hz
New starter has a frequency of 350hz, which translates to 2828rpm on the bench (with a weak battery) and means 235.667rpm when mounted on the engine. Should be plenty to get it started up with a low battery.
03-18-12, 03:07 AM
#275
Autozone is a bunch of cockstains...
Everything is spotless, body & busbar connections given dielectric grease & torqued to 10ft.lbs. Here's a breakdown of every link in the chain
Positive terminal to breaker: 4AWG Battery cable w/1 crimped silver stereo lug & 1 soldered copper lug, 0.7 ohms
Breaker to Bus Bar: 4AWG welding cable w/2 soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
12V+ Bus Bar: 5-stud GM Truck Battery Bus Bar, 0.8 ohms at furthest studs, 0.7 for all other combinations
Bus Bar to Starter Positive terminal: 4AWG Pre-made Battery Cable w/two factory crimped tin plated copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
Bus Bar to Alternator: 4AWG Battery cable w/two soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
Starter Body to Strut tower Ground bolt: 4AWG Pre-made Battery cable, shortened to correct length w/1 factory crimped tin/copper lug & 1 soldered copper lug, 0.7 ohms.
Strut tower to Ground bus bar: identical to previous cable, 0.7 ohms
Ground Bus Bar: Identical to 12V+ Bus Bar in every manner, 0.8/0.7 ohms
Rear seat bracket bolt hole to Battery Negative terminal: 4AWG welding cable w/two soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms.
*Body connection has bolt fed through underside of floorpan and crown nut w/dielectric grease on interior side to seal out ALL possible corrosion
Car body between Driver's side ground bolt hole and rear seat bracket bolt hole: unmodified sheet metal, 0.7 ohms
The 'good' starter I got from them is a PIECE OF ****. On a fully charged battery, it yielded 70 RPM for 10 seconds and tripped the breaker...
SEVENTY REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE, THEN IT EXCEEDED 150 AMPS CURRENT DRAW TO TRIP THE BREAKER
Reset the breaker and tried it again. ECU Manager hovered around 70 rpm again for 10 seconds, then the breaker tripped again.
This is with a Deka Intimidator 9A48 AGM battery. On the old starter, it took 10 attempts at cranking the engine, each being 10 seconds long, for it to break a sweat. The old autozone battery crapped out after 4-5.
In 4 hours, Autozone be seeing me right as they unlock the door to get a refund for their "100% re-man-you're-fucked-sured and tested" piece of ****, even if I have to hurl it through the window
To put this in perspective, I still have the original starter that my car came with from the factory on 11/11/1986. After leaving it outside for a whole year and having it be buried in snow a foot deep, I'd have more faith in it than the POS from Autozone.
So, who knows of a place that rebuild starters properly and tests them for actual usage? As in bolt up to the engine and check cranking speed? I need a good starter like that ASAP.
Positive terminal to breaker: 4AWG Battery cable w/1 crimped silver stereo lug & 1 soldered copper lug, 0.7 ohms
Breaker to Bus Bar: 4AWG welding cable w/2 soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
12V+ Bus Bar: 5-stud GM Truck Battery Bus Bar, 0.8 ohms at furthest studs, 0.7 for all other combinations
Bus Bar to Starter Positive terminal: 4AWG Pre-made Battery Cable w/two factory crimped tin plated copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
Bus Bar to Alternator: 4AWG Battery cable w/two soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms
Starter Body to Strut tower Ground bolt: 4AWG Pre-made Battery cable, shortened to correct length w/1 factory crimped tin/copper lug & 1 soldered copper lug, 0.7 ohms.
Strut tower to Ground bus bar: identical to previous cable, 0.7 ohms
Ground Bus Bar: Identical to 12V+ Bus Bar in every manner, 0.8/0.7 ohms
Rear seat bracket bolt hole to Battery Negative terminal: 4AWG welding cable w/two soldered copper lugs, 0.7 ohms.
*Body connection has bolt fed through underside of floorpan and crown nut w/dielectric grease on interior side to seal out ALL possible corrosion
Car body between Driver's side ground bolt hole and rear seat bracket bolt hole: unmodified sheet metal, 0.7 ohms
The 'good' starter I got from them is a PIECE OF ****. On a fully charged battery, it yielded 70 RPM for 10 seconds and tripped the breaker...
SEVENTY REVOLUTIONS PER MINUTE, THEN IT EXCEEDED 150 AMPS CURRENT DRAW TO TRIP THE BREAKER
Reset the breaker and tried it again. ECU Manager hovered around 70 rpm again for 10 seconds, then the breaker tripped again.
This is with a Deka Intimidator 9A48 AGM battery. On the old starter, it took 10 attempts at cranking the engine, each being 10 seconds long, for it to break a sweat. The old autozone battery crapped out after 4-5.
In 4 hours, Autozone be seeing me right as they unlock the door to get a refund for their "100% re-man-you're-fucked-sured and tested" piece of ****, even if I have to hurl it through the window
To put this in perspective, I still have the original starter that my car came with from the factory on 11/11/1986. After leaving it outside for a whole year and having it be buried in snow a foot deep, I'd have more faith in it than the POS from Autozone.
So, who knows of a place that rebuild starters properly and tests them for actual usage? As in bolt up to the engine and check cranking speed? I need a good starter like that ASAP.