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Obsidian Labs seriously dropped the ball here. It's been over a month of trying to contact their Facebook page, phone, emails, and the owner directly. No luck.
Thankfully I settled on this. Franklin Engineering in New Zealand. They even make a Short Oil Filler which is EXACTLY what I needed. $30 USD for that little guy saved me a good $200 in fabrication time + parts. Cheers to New Zealand on this one!
I'm really not looking forward to broaching or Wire EDM'ing this clutch piece.
Wire EDM Quote for Clutch Center Hub to Knock it out from 1" 23/25 Spline to 1.125" 26 Spline = $550
Adapter Plate from T2 to Magnum = $550.
Shifter Kit to Properly Locate the Transmission = $500.
T56 Magnum Transmission = $3195.
Powershifting the bitch at full boost knowing it's not going explode on you... = Priceless.
Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 08-28-18 at 11:59 PM.
Somehow I'm getting an Obsidian Labs S5 to S6 Adapter Plate setup now too. Magical. Well, S6 UIM should be here soon and I'm on my way to getting the last of my stuff done before fabrication even starts.
I could be ballsy and just order the rest of the transmission stuff. Gotta wait on my broaching guy in LA.
I'll probably start a new thread for this subject some day but I was curious if anybody has implemented stepper motor wastegate actuation without hacky workarounds. I've come up with a few and have a mahle on the bench, this unit acts like any other stepper motor. Any thoughts?
Thanks Franklin Engineering plate looks good. I like the O-ring setup. Too bad it is too suit S4 LIM though.
I have looked at many of the different adapter plates over the years. The Reaction Racing one from Japan was still the best engineered product. I sold mine a while ago because I think any adapter plate just looks too ghetto and obvious for me. Instead, I'm cutting the flange off a 13B-REW LIM and welding it directly onto the s5 LIM, then port matching and smoothing out the transition with a die grinder.
I'll probably start a new thread for this subject some day but I was curious if anybody has implemented stepper motor wastegate actuation without hacky workarounds. I've come up with a few and have a mahle on the bench, this unit acts like any other stepper motor. Any thoughts?
Yeah, look familiar to my "old" (now for sale) build? Buy it from me!
Thanks Franklin Engineering plate looks good. I like the O-ring setup. Too bad it is too suit S4 LIM though.
I have looked at many of the different adapter plates over the years. The Reaction Racing one from Japan was still the best engineered product. I sold mine a while ago because I think any adapter plate just looks too ghetto and obvious for me. Instead, I'm cutting the flange off a 13B-REW LIM and welding it directly onto the s5 LIM, then port matching and smoothing out the transition with a die grinder.
The Franklin Engineering adapter looks great, but this Obsidian Labs one is on another level.
Word, I'm not particularly worried about the hardware involved but more curious about control strategies between different ECUs etc. and potentials for use. I also have always hated stacking system on top of systems that somewhat work together but there always seems to be something just beyond cobbled together system integrations. Also swapping between vendors/software when I'm building a car makes my ***** ache. This is one of the reasons why I keep going back to an m150 dev as my ECU of choice but $6600 isn't that cheap.
Word, I'm not particularly worried about the hardware involved but more curious about control strategies between different ECUs etc. and potentials for use. I also have always hated stacking system on top of systems that somewhat work together but there always seems to be something just beyond cobbled together system integrations. Also swapping between vendors/software when I'm building a car makes my ***** ache. This is one of the reasons why I keep going back to an m150 dev as my ECU of choice but $6600 isn't that cheap.
Man, you sound bummed. I thought I nailed it on the head with the Electronically Controlled Stepper Motor IWG YouTube video and my old build (which was going to convert to that). Your ECU has limitless potential and I'm sure we could figure out some programming logic to get it to do exactly what you want. The drawback of the stepper motor is going to be optimizing gearing between holding a ton of boost (large gear reduction for excellent torque against the wastegate flapper) and speed (opening as quickly as possible to vent off excess pressure).
Here's my train of thought. Let's say you have a stepper motor with 150 Steps from Fully Closed to Fully Open. Ideally you'll want to have a cam on this configuration in which your linear steps on the motor translate to a progressive output on the wastegate flapper actuation. So maybe something like the first 100 Steps open up 1/3rd of the wastegate from Fully Closed to 1/3rd Open. The next 50 Steps open up the remaining 2/3rds of the wastegate from 1/3rd Open to Fully Open. This gives you a MUCH better boost control than simply having a linear cam. Of course, you could do a different control strategy, but the concept holds true.
Maybe I'm not getting what you're looking for in a logic control system, but you should have no issue adapting a stepper motor (with heatshielding) as a wastegate controller. Another plan of attack would be a Stepper Motor Linear Actuator in which you run it like a standard wastegate arm with the motor located on it. Here's a perfect example of that: Stepper Motor Linear Actuator.
Anyways, I'm glad to work something out with you. That's the whole point of a forum.
I spent the whole day working out stuff for a customer's Camaro SS on HPTuners (weird development type **** I've been experimenting with), my daily driver Integra on Hondata S300v3, and trying to finalize the start-up map for the Emtron KV8 ECU, which I am definitely closing in on.
Looking forward to more updates on the transmission swap. Have you tried asking your clutch manufacturer to just make you a clutch disk with the right spline on it?
Did you finally get a hold of obsidian labs? or did you just find one for sale elsewhere?
Man, you sound bummed. I thought I nailed it on the head with the Electronically Controlled Stepper Motor IWG YouTube video and my old build (which was going to convert to that). Your ECU has limitless potential and I'm sure we could figure out some programming logic to get it to do exactly what you want. The drawback of the stepper motor is going to be optimizing gearing between holding a ton of boost (large gear reduction for excellent torque against the wastegate flapper) and speed (opening as quickly as possible to vent off excess pressure).
Here's my train of thought. Let's say you have a stepper motor with 150 Steps from Fully Closed to Fully Open. Ideally you'll want to have a cam on this configuration in which your linear steps on the motor translate to a progressive output on the wastegate flapper actuation. So maybe something like the first 100 Steps open up 1/3rd of the wastegate from Fully Closed to 1/3rd Open. The next 50 Steps open up the remaining 2/3rds of the wastegate from 1/3rd Open to Fully Open. This gives you a MUCH better boost control than simply having a linear cam. Of course, you could do a different control strategy, but the concept holds true.
Maybe I'm not getting what you're looking for in a logic control system, but you should have no issue adapting a stepper motor (with heatshielding) as a wastegate controller. Another plan of attack would be a Stepper Motor Linear Actuator in which you run it like a standard wastegate arm with the motor located on it. Here's a perfect example of that: Stepper Motor Linear Actuator.
Anyways, I'm glad to work something out with you. That's the whole point of a forum.
I spent the whole day working out stuff for a customer's Camaro SS on HPTuners (weird development type **** I've been experimenting with), my daily driver Integra on Hondata S300v3, and trying to finalize the start-up map for the Emtron KV8 ECU, which I am definitely closing in on.
Word, not bummed just making conversation. With regards to hardware I've got a bit of a boner over OEM reliability (when applicable) and fit and finish so I'm waiting on a friend of mine to punt over an actuator from a 3 series. they do some odd low/high boost control so I hope it has the resolution I'd like.
Looking forward to more updates on the transmission swap. Have you tried asking your clutch manufacturer to just make you a clutch disk with the right spline on it?
Did you finally get a hold of obsidian labs? or did you just find one for sale elsewhere?
Shawn of Obsidian Labs contacted me just as my order in New Zealand was being shipped out. An international call moments later and I was able to cancel their (frankly perfect - I would recommend Franklin Eng to ANYONE!) adapter setup, but kept the rest of my order.
So here's my clutch. The Center Hub needs machined from 1" 23/25 Spline to 1.125" 26 Spline:
Note how the discs themselves don't change. It's the center hub that needs either Wire EDM or Broaching to have the inside spline changed.
The engineering that's gone into this build is beyond my comprehension. I just check in from time to time, read the updates, and then realize my head is beginning to hurt almost like I'm back in school struggling to understand a subject that is just not sinking in.... This is one of the more unique builds I've ever seen.
For the money you're looking to get your current disc modified you might want to look in to Tilton making you a custom disc. They've done it for our 4 rotor build and hand delivered the units. Seeing as you have the exact dimensions to give them/can actually just send them the part it might make more sense since then you have a part number that you might be able to reference from a vendor rather than re customize another part when/if you need a new disc.
For the money you're looking to get your current disc modified you might want to look in to Tilton making you a custom disc. They've done it for our 4 rotor build and hand delivered the units. Seeing as you have the exact dimensions to give them/can actually just send them the part it might make more sense since then you have a part number that you might be able to reference from a vendor rather than re customize another part when/if you need a new disc.
I think you're confused here. When I need a new clutch disc, the ORC559D discs are still going to fit perfectly. The outer spline isn't changing. All I'm doing is knocking out the inner spline to the Tremec T56 Magnum input shaft size of 1.125" 26 Spline.
Realistically, the only reason I'm going with this clutch is because ORC was the only company to do a Twin Disc that's DAMPED and that's what will help it's drivability as a street driven car.
Cool. I was merely observing that at 500 for the disc modification you might be able to have one made for the same cost and have an easy replacement in the future without having to buy the same disc then have it modified again. I'm pretty sure tilton will build damped discs as well.
Not trying to be a total tilton fanboy either it's just that theyre not far, south of you in beullton. Looks killer as usual.
Cool. I was merely observing that at 500 for the disc modification you might be able to have one made for the same cost and have an easy replacement in the future without having to buy the same disc then have it modified again. I'm pretty sure tilton will build damped discs as well.
Not trying to be a total tilton fanboy either it's just that theyre not far, south of you in beullton. Looks killer as usual.
There is ZERO disc modification. It's the center hub of the dual clutch assembly that gets modified. Look at the picture. That piece is FLOATING and is entirely independent. I just got another quote for $350, which is MUCH closer to what I originally had in mind. I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, it's simply taking a center hub and opening up the inner spline. It's easy.
You'd think after getting frustrated trying to explain it (with pictures, mind you) to broaching/wire EDM shops, and clutch/transmission suppliers for the last two months, I would have figured out a nicer way of putting it. Hahaha. Nope, sorry. It's a involute spline center HUB that slides freely on the clutch assembly. Clutch discs and plates are independent of it and will remain fully ORC replaceable due to the outer spline shape not changing at all. Simply, the clutches don't have the input shaft spline at all, a removable center hub does. I showed this to a few different clutch manufacturers (the people who make the parts for McLeod, Exedy, SPEC, etc, and they were like, "Oh wow, I've never seen it done that way! Those quirky little Japanese out at Ogura!"
Obsidian Labs Adapter comes in on Tuesday. I'm going to see about placing my Throttle Mass Flow MAP sensor into the blockoff plate of the first (closest to TB) idle air control valve spot. Should be easy and accessible. Even hides the sensor/wires nicely and doesn't interfere with the fuel system. I even found another Honda IAB Solenoid Vacuum Reservoir and went through the Emtron ECU file to figure everything out. This intake is going to be badass.
You'd think after getting frustrated trying to explain it (with pictures, mind you) to broaching/wire EDM shops, and clutch/transmission suppliers for the last two months, I would have figured out a nicer way of putting it. Hahaha. Nope, sorry. It's a involute spline center HUB that slides freely on the clutch assembly. Clutch discs and plates are independent of it and will remain fully ORC replaceable due to the outer spline shape not changing at all. Simply, the clutches don't have the input shaft spline at all, a removable center hub does. I showed this to a few different clutch manufacturers (the people who make the parts for McLeod, Exedy, SPEC, etc, and they were like, "Oh wow, I've never seen it done that way! Those quirky little Japanese out at Ogura!"
Obsidian Labs Adapter comes in on Tuesday. I'm going to see about placing my Throttle Mass Flow MAP sensor into the blockoff plate of the first (closest to TB) idle air control valve spot. Should be easy and accessible. Even hides the sensor/wires nicely and doesn't interfere with the fuel system. I even found another Honda IAB Solenoid Vacuum Reservoir and went through the Emtron ECU file to figure everything out. This intake is going to be badass.
S'all good. No harm no foul. I've just never seen such a thing so I was confused, and I've played with a bunch of odd ball single/multi plate clutch assemblies from various race vehicles we've torn down and rebuilt. Just didn't click.
How will your tune account for the secondary intake ports? I assume that you will set your ECU up to trigger them, but is there something else that must be done?
08-28-18, 11:00 PM
