Yea that would **** me off too. Pretty much saying... We made a mistake... your money is disposable to us....and your time is worth beans. Cheap bastards.

 

^ Yea and basically worded it like we are doing you favor by not charging you for the diaphragms as these are from 2011 and look to have been heavily used.

Definitely left a sour taste in my mouth, it especially bothered me as I had them watercooled and did everything their literature recommends me to do.

 

So let me clarify this...

You buy a product to use, the product breaks while you are using it, but then are charged to replace a part that broke because it is heavily used and perhaps an outdated part being used by the company?!?!?

You would think they would want the customer to feel confident in the product he/she uses.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to know tials warranty policy?

 

^ Not only does it break but both break! Using them for the exact purpose they are designed and marketed for.

Yea it will definitely make me think twice about using their product when I make another turbo kit for something. There are a lot of options out there.

No I don't know their warranty. And a quick search did not show anything but I suck at searching so I may be there but I did not see it.

 

Hey it could be worse. You could have a wastegate actuator fail like I did and destroy the entire motor, head, and turbo. What did Garrett do? Give me a new actuator ($100). Actuator had maybe 1000 miles on it

 

This worries me,

For those running pump gas such as myself, a wastegate failure such as what you experienced would prob be the end of my engine... a long with it my non-rebuild-able EFR turbo lol. If tial really did "change the material" I may just order one and replace my current MVR. I doubt theyll give me a discount tho.

**I sent TIAL a polite email regarding the issue. Lets see what they say. Glad you got your issues resolved. I remember hearing your open wastegates during idle at NJMP

 

^ An overboost situation is really not a big deal if you have the proper engine protection parameters, an overboost ignition cut is a safe way to prevent engine damage. Only reason boost was going to 23 psi for me was because that's where the cut is set in the software.

Yea it was a bit noisey at idle when they broke, glad I did not have to drive it home like that.

 

Dang bro that's messed up, hopefully mine are new enough not to worry but now I'll be paying attention to mine.

 

Which is why I ditched the Cobb Access port and went with Tactrix and added a AEM Wideband Failsafe gauge. If it overboosts the ecu will cut timing. If it runs lean the wastegate will dump boost.

 

Any word from them on why they broke in the way they did and how to make sure it doesn't happen again?

 

^ Nope, "never seen it before but we did change the material ov the valve so you should not have a problem anymore."

Very comforting.

In other news, I installed the gates and they don't leak anymore. So I got that going for me.

Plan for the winter is to do pretty much nothing to the car. I was thinking of flushing out the e-85 with some gas but now I dont think I will. Started the car yesterday after sitting 6 weeks and it fired on the second crank. I like to experiment and live dangerously.

 

The rally stuff they make such as the mvs-a uses a different seat and valve material. I assume this is what they sent you.

 

Do you think its possible for these newer turbos with the internal wastegates to have a similar failure?

 

no, probably not. the wastegate technology the EFRs are using for the wastegate actuator and flapper (external actuator/rod, internal flapper) is really old stuff that's been used on OE turbo vehicles for like 30 years and is really simple and rock solid --also used on stupid-reliable diesel big rigs...

 

^I googled some pics and I see what you mean. Seeing what happened on this thread makes me never want to go external wastegate in the future. Controlling boost is too damn important.

 

Anything can fail. Ask NASA... Don't speak in such absolutes

-J

 

werd. unfortuantely, there aren't many internal wastegate options for rotary-appropriate (large-ish) turbos :/

 

Well, I guess in defense of Tial, the wastegates were from 2011, or about 4 years old. Not many companies will warranty stuff that old, particularly parts that take a bunch of heat and stress and who knows how much punishment. Not saying I agree with this, but I am sure that was the logic.

This does worry me as Kilo is installing a Tial wastage on my car, replacing my Synapse unit which has worked great. He's just a big Tial guy and the Synapse units work differently which has always thrown him off.

I mention Synapse because their wastegates do not use rods or diaphragms, rather they work in a piston fashion. Much better design philosophy for exactly the reasons of what happened here. Not to mention they are more controllable and open quicker. Here is some info on the units:

Official Turbo Wastegates | WG, 40mm, 50 turbo wastegate

Food for thought for the future.

 

^ Exactly.

With a good ecu and proper overboost protection it is a non issue for a motor if you overboost. I was not worried one bit about the motor.

Although synapse does not use a flexible diaphragm it still has some sort of mounting method where the piston is secured to the valve. Which is what failed for me. Not sure how they have it secured though. I also suspect one drawback of that piston design is more mass and possibly slower boost control. Not sure how what makes you say they open quicker when looking at that design.

 

^ Here is a pic of the internals:



They use a one piece, nitrated billet stainless steel valve stem so I am not sure there is anything better than that. It's also attached to the metal piston, a design which seems to be inherently better than having it attached to a rubber diaphragm. There simply is not much to wear out.

Finally, the Synapse unit opens in 25 milliseconds, much quicker a diaphragm type unit. The diaphragm type design requires that boost pressure be used to "stretch" the diaphragm before the valve can even begin to move. It makes for slow response time when it comes to boost control.

Here is a good article on the differences:

Read more: Synchronic Wastegates - Turbo Magazine

 

^ I see your point about the removal of the flexible diaphragm. But there still needs to be a method to secure the stem to the piston. That is what failed on my wastegate. Not sure how they secure it in the synapse.

 

Center lock pin thru the stem or hex-screws or both

 

So I received the wastegates back within a few days Tial had about a 24 hour turnaround time which was nice. I installed the gates but have not really done any highway pulls to confirm the proper control of boost. I have really only driven the car about 10 miles since the Carlisi meet. The weather up here in the NE was brutal cold and snowy for about 2 months straight. Plus my Fd is not inspected nor registered so I gotta take care of that soon before I drive it anywhere. lol.

This is the only pic I have taken of it this year when I took it for a quick drive after sitting for 2 months. Car started right up with a tank of E-70.




I have been busy working on my Ford Ranger with I am swapping in a Cummins 4bt diesel motor into. Plan is to use the truck for DD as well as towing my Fd when I go to the track. This has been taking up all of my time.








Specs on the truck are as follows

Engine : 120hp Cummins 4bt (will be turned up once truck is driveable)
Turbo: Holset "super" HX30W
Transmission: Ford smallblock ZF5-42
Transfercase: NP205
Rear Axle: Ford 8.8 out of an explorer.
Driveshafts: Both custom for application
Brakes: Ford mustang hydroboost
Intercooler: 3.5" evo 8/9 FMIC
Wheels: Some **** off of a jeep
Tires: 33" BFG's

 

[QUOTE=RENESISFD;11897744]




Our FDs were twins separated at birth ...

 

FD is looking clean. Digging the Ranger build too.