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Old 05-08-19, 12:14 PM
  #1776  
Mazzei Formula

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thanks guys

just finished up dialing it in on the dyno,

power is WAY up.

980hp/570ftlbs 9100rpm, 13.1 psi. 3rd gear. Absolutely insane. Mustang dyno.

Its now running out of fuel injector at 13-14psi where it was running out at 20psi before fixing the manifold. Could turn up the base pressure but not really interested in more right now.

Dialed in the 12 position rotary switch on the dash, with the first 6 positions in power clicks of duty cycle. So we can do 650hp, 700hp, 750hp, 800hp, 850hp, and 900hp, going to stay away from the 900+ as its just not needed. I want to keep this thing safe, and not break ****.

Its so amazing it does not even begin to spin the tires or even put heat in them. The load is just so effortlessly, linearly, and smoothly applied on this setup its like an electric engine lol. Cold racing slicks, no added weight to the back end, and it doesn't even spin on the dyno. Unbelievable. Power is so smoothly delivered. I've taken the duty cycle for the boost and ramped it across a 2psi spread from 6k to 9k deliberately, so it doesn't try to rip the tires off when boost comes in. The name of the game is usable power and driveability, and it feels much like a sport bike or formula 1 engine, where the load is applied with resolution of RPM instead of smacking it all down in a short power band and breaking parts. My favorite part is the ability to make 20% more horesepower than the 20b, but with 50tq less, and almost 15lbs less boost!

EGT's are down to around 1600-1800f range now at this power level, AFR is right on target at a dead 11.0. Deviation is sometimes .1 leaner or up to .2 richer depending on the temperature of the IAT. Hard to pin down as it seems to be an evaporation affect of the alcohol. When IAT gets up over 135* mysteriously the power goes up lol. Also found it makes more power at 185F coolant temps vs 175f coolant temps. So nice to finally have time to run it and dial it in without chasing bullshit mechanical issues. Happy to say this monster is screaming reliably and its so ******* intense with so little effort. Coolant temps stay around 185 and oil at 190f if I'm just rolling along on dyno. 91f in the shop. If I start going bang out on it doing back to back combat runs, decel, back on throttle, punishment, it will hang on for a good 5 to 10 mins without creeping over 200f, and oil under 220f. IAT never get over 140f and this is with no airflow over the rear mounted core. **** is amazing. Has to be 100x better on the street with real airflow

Now just need to keep working out a few transient bugs on tip in. It like to go lean then rich then follow target. Its just so hard to control, with such a big throttle and low velocity of the pport runners at low rpm before boost hits. I've found some new settings to mess with, where I might be able to make it decay away faster, so that the enrichment lasts shorter, and then i can get away with increasing it further. Its like the enrichment covers too much time duration. So when you go to add the ridiculous amount of fuel the car needs on stabs, it works, but it works too well and rich misfires after the fact.

After this its off to race alignment shop, then for racing pads and fluids, install the fire suppression and its ready for the track!

Last edited by Monsterbox; 05-08-19 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 05-08-19, 02:09 PM
  #1777  
It Just Feels Right

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Originally Posted by Monsterbox
...going to stay away from the 900+ as its just not needed.
However, 850HP....

This thing is built more for a flying mile than a road course
Old 05-08-19, 09:46 PM
  #1778  
Rx7 Wagon

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Videos, or we'll know you photoshopped the whole project. A brilliant facade.
Old 05-15-19, 01:43 PM
  #1779  
Mazzei Formula

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Not quite out of the woods yet,

almost finished up with getting the car dialed in for cruising and trimming fuel/boost per gear to get it all uniform, and I notice rotor number 1 intake clamps has been leaking and evaporating on the manifold.

So, at this point, I'm totally beside myself, as I've spent over 50+ hrs taking manifold on / off, straightening runners, replacing o-rings to Viton, trying brand new replacement nitrile from the OEM plazmaman, trying everything. Now that runner 4 doesn't leak, number 1 starts leaking fuel. Totally ridiculous.

I pulled the intake off yet again. And decided to measure the ferrules and the collar. For **** sake, the measurements are nearly identical to that published for the 2inch Adel Wiggin clamp. I went ahead and ordered an actual Wiggins clamps, to drive the point home and make certain they are the same design. The only difference I notice is the outside "clamshell" that secures it in place is a different design.

If we suppose that the ferrules, o-ring grooves, and collars are the same dimensions, then there's only one thing left, the o-ring dimensions. So I contacted Adel Wiggins, and requested the exact O-ring specification.

1. The plazmaman O-ring is a 52mm x 3.0mm Metric
2. The Wiggins is a 226 USA Standard O-ring 47mm x 3.53mm
3. Science says that if you calculate the percentage difference in diameter, this same degree in % change, correlates to the % change in o-ring thickness when stretched. Therefore, when the 226 O-ring is stretched to the same dimensions as the Metric O-ring, the effective cross section ends up around 3.2-3.4mm which is at least 5-10% thicker than the metric!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went picked up a set of 226 vitons, and installed them the other night. Holy **** it was a major PITA trying to force the clamps back on, using the thicker o-rings. Nearly impossible. Yet, this is how it "should" feel according to friends with the actual Wiggins clamps. If its easy to push them over the o-rings, then there is going to be compression set failure the moment that the clamps experience any articulation !

Back on the dyno again, a few full power runs and knock on wood no more leaks! Going to give it another run, 24hrs later, full heat cycle, and see if it hold up again before I make the final stamp of approval!
Old 05-15-19, 01:50 PM
  #1780  
Rx7 Wagon

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Devil's in the details. Good on ya.
Old 05-15-19, 01:52 PM
  #1781  
Mazzei Formula

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Another update in response to the haltech transient issues:

I've learned that the software has a "hidden" decay rate. Its located in the settings menu, "load acceleration deadband". Jacked the **** out of this from 500% to 3000% (0-6000%) range. This effectively clips the transient throttle enrichment duration to a very short burst, maybe only 50ms or so. This eliminates the rich trail that follows the lean spike. After getting rid of the rich tail/dip, the transient fuel amounts could be significantly increased, to further treat the lean spike, as now we do not have the fuel sticking around after. Doing so solved the transient lean spikes/hiccups entirely in 3rd and 4th gear! The downside is the increased amount of transient fuel required to fix the lean spikes on this huge throttle and port design negatively affects the free-rev tremendously! Works great in gear, but the moment I snapped the throttle to rev match, it floods the plugs and misfires horribly!

So, again after scratching my head for another 12hrs, I had a thought:

What if I add a 3rd dimension to the transient enrichment table, graph the Vehicle Wheel Speed / RPM, so that the 3rd dimension can be gear position. Now, the ECU can scale the amount of transient enrichment, while using the same decay rate settings, but varying in overall severity of enrichment amount per gear. 4th gear, lots of load, snapping open the throttle, should naturally require more fuel burst, than first gear, snapping the throttle and moving much faster in rate of acceleration per load. And free rev, with engine disconnected from trans, only revving a fly wheel/clutch would be SIGNIFICANTLY less load than being in gear!

After setting up the table, graphing the speeds/rpm, and adding the 3rd dimension, the car revs like a sport bike now, and its about 90% on point in each gear. Everything over 4k rpm is just so snappy and perfect. Need to do the same with Asychronous fuel, and add just a tad more burst for the lower rpms on the higher gears and she's spot ******* on!
Old 05-15-19, 01:54 PM
  #1782  
burn to burn

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I use Adel Wiggins clamps for my radiator hard lines.. You're right, these things can be an absolute nightmare to install and remove.. so I know first hand what you mean. After installed I have not had a leak though.. so hopefully you're home free.
Old 05-15-19, 02:05 PM
  #1783  
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Originally Posted by Monsterbox
Not quite out of the woods yet,

almost finished up with getting the car dialed in for cruising and trimming fuel/boost per gear to get it all uniform, and I notice rotor number 1 intake clamps has been leaking and evaporating on the manifold.

So, at this point, I'm totally beside myself, as I've spent over 50+ hrs taking manifold on / off, straightening runners, replacing o-rings to Viton, trying brand new replacement nitrile from the OEM plazmaman, trying everything. Now that runner 4 doesn't leak, number 1 starts leaking fuel. Totally ridiculous.

I pulled the intake off yet again. And decided to measure the ferrules and the collar. For **** sake, the measurements are nearly identical to that published for the 2inch Adel Wiggin clamp. I went ahead and ordered an actual Wiggins clamps, to drive the point home and make certain they are the same design. The only difference I notice is the outside "clamshell" that secures it in place is a different design.

If we suppose that the ferrules, o-ring grooves, and collars are the same dimensions, then there's only one thing left, the o-ring dimensions. So I contacted Adel Wiggins, and requested the exact O-ring specification.

1. The plazmaman O-ring is a 52mm x 3.0mm Metric
2. The Wiggins is a 226 USA Standard O-ring 47mm x 3.53mm
3. Science says that if you calculate the percentage difference in diameter, this same degree in % change, correlates to the % change in o-ring thickness when stretched. Therefore, when the 226 O-ring is stretched to the same dimensions as the Metric O-ring, the effective cross section ends up around 3.2-3.4mm which is at least 5-10% thicker than the metric!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went picked up a set of 226 vitons, and installed them the other night. Holy **** it was a major PITA trying to force the clamps back on, using the thicker o-rings. Nearly impossible. Yet, this is how it "should" feel according to friends with the actual Wiggins clamps. If its easy to push them over the o-rings, then there is going to be compression set failure the moment that the clamps experience any articulation !

Back on the dyno again, a few full power runs and knock on wood no more leaks! Going to give it another run, 24hrs later, full heat cycle, and see if it hold up again before I make the final stamp of approval!

If you haven’t already, you might want to grab a copy of Parker’s O-ring Handbook. Lots of good information in there with respect to o-ring gland sizing and fluid compatibility for various o-ring materials.

https://www.parker.com/Literature/O-...ORD%205700.pdf
Old 05-17-19, 09:39 AM
  #1784  
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Found the cause of the high EGT on runner #3 finally.

I tried everything. Thinking it could have been too much airflow bias. Maybe bad injector so flow tested injectors and cleaned them. Etc etc. Down to the point of just accepting the fact and adding 10% more fuel to rotor 3 to bring down the temps.

However, adding this fuel caused number 3 to misfire and skewed the AFR rich, requiring me to pull out fuel from the overall map. Its been like this since December, and luckily no hard driving. Last night I took apart the ignition system to find that the leading wire on Number 3, on the underside of the boot where it attaches to the plug was split and arching through to the coolant fitting next to the spark plug! Could not have possibly seen this without physically removing the entire wire and inspecting it!

So, Rotor #3 was essentially running on reduced leading spark, with primarily the trailing spark firing the mixture, which caused retarded timing of combustion thus leading to high EGT!

Last night, after replacing the wire, I was able to pull the +10% back out from rotor 3, and balance the other rotors, and overall mixture to a true balanced AFR reading of 11.3. Car picked up even more power and transient reponse, all EGT average under 1660f at 9k rpm with a spread of under 100F across all 4, and engine is making over 575ftlbs on 10.5psi in 3rd gear according to mustang dyno peak reading! I think she's good to go now!
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Old 05-17-19, 05:37 PM
  #1785  
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary

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Originally Posted by Monsterbox
Found the cause of the high EGT on runner #3 finally.

I tried everything. Thinking it could have been too much airflow bias. Maybe bad injector so flow tested injectors and cleaned them. Etc etc. Down to the point of just accepting the fact and adding 10% more fuel to rotor 3 to bring down the temps.

However, adding this fuel caused number 3 to misfire and skewed the AFR rich, requiring me to pull out fuel from the overall map. Its been like this since December, and luckily no hard driving. Last night I took apart the ignition system to find that the leading wire on Number 3, on the underside of the boot where it attaches to the plug was split and arching through to the coolant fitting next to the spark plug! Could not have possibly seen this without physically removing the entire wire and inspecting it!

So, Rotor #3 was essentially running on reduced leading spark, with primarily the trailing spark firing the mixture, which caused retarded timing of combustion thus leading to high EGT!

Last night, after replacing the wire, I was able to pull the +10% back out from rotor 3, and balance the other rotors, and overall mixture to a true balanced AFR reading of 11.3. Car picked up even more power and transient reponse, all EGT average under 1660f at 9k rpm with a spread of under 100F across all 4, and engine is making over 575ftlbs on 10.5psi in 3rd gear according to mustang dyno peak reading! I think she's good to go now!
....David, you need a Co-Pilot just to monitor engine operating conditions. Sheesh! Have you got warning lights on all critical parameters?
Old 05-18-19, 02:29 PM
  #1786  
Rotary Enthusiast

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As always very awesome. I've run into something similar on some 3 rotor builds RE: fuel/egt delta and if I find I need to add 5% or more to a rotor to even out EGTs I'm almost immediately doing a complete overhaul of all systems. Not all that easy when you've shoehorned a 4 rotor into an FD though :P
Old 05-18-19, 04:10 PM
  #1787  
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Man it's always the dumb little things like this that cause the biggest ripple effects. Glad you found the source of that headache!
Old 05-19-19, 09:09 AM
  #1788  
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^Tell me about it. It's always the little things. Things like this is why I'm trying to figure a coil on plug solution.

Last edited by t-von; 05-19-19 at 09:16 AM.
Old 05-20-19, 12:01 PM
  #1789  
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I'm really interested on how the Mech pump is treating you thus far and if you would have preferred it sooner on your older 20B setup.

Awesome findings thus far and sounds wicked on your last IG posts.
Old 05-20-19, 12:17 PM
  #1790  
Mazzei Formula

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Mechanical pump is just pure magic. Best mod ever. The cable drive works perfect. I've opened the pump a few times to inspect and relubricate. Zero wear, at all. It keeps 1:1 with base pressure always 100% of the time. I dont even log fuel pressure anymore. And fuel rails/fuel heat is so much less than before. No more amperage heat introduced into fuel.

More vids coming guy

Did some blasts on 7psi, it's so incredible lol. I cant even believe the power and how well it sticks to the ground. The wing helps so much. 12kg springs in back, making 700+ and it just dead hooks at 100% deliberate throttle blast at 7k rpm in 2nd gear. When lifting between shifts, the rear stays planted from the aero!
Old 05-22-19, 01:23 AM
  #1791  
Mazzei Formula

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Old 05-22-19, 12:52 PM
  #1792  
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Originally Posted by t-von
^Tell me about it. It's always the little things. Things like this is why I'm trying to figure a coil on plug solution.

I've been mocking up R35 coils for COP on my own project, there's another company I'm forgetting the name of that started doing them that I totally bit the idea off of. I am, however, looking to do some sort of single piece rather than multi piece that contraption setup. Sorry to hijack.

Edit: Here they are, not sure if these are the original manufacturers or if they're just reselling them https://performancepartsecus.com/col...azda-coil-kits

Last edited by dguy; 05-22-19 at 12:55 PM. Reason: stuff
Old 05-22-19, 01:11 PM
  #1793  
The bomb is in the toy!1!

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Amazing. Must feel so good. Very happy for you!

Do you have a spreadsheet someone that reflects the current work and parts that have been done to this car? Would be very interested to see that if you've got it
Old 05-23-19, 01:06 PM
  #1794  
Mazzei Formula

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Originally Posted by cloud9
Amazing. Must feel so good. Very happy for you!

Do you have a spreadsheet someone that reflects the current work and parts that have been done to this car? Would be very interested to see that if you've got it
Chassis:
-1993 Mazda RX-7 R1 No-Sunroof
-Shineauto/Feed Rear Fenders
-Shineauto/Feed Front Fenders
-VIS Hood Modified Compressor Inlet Ducting and Wastegate Tube Exits
-RE Japan Sleek Headlights / Modified Bracketry and LED Light System
-Chassis Mount Spoiler Adjustable Wing Angle
-Mazzei Formula ABS Splitter
-Quick-Disconnect Tubular Front Core Support
-NASCAR Cage by Kirk Racing
-RE-A Rear Diffuser and Shineauto Side Skirts
-Mazda 99 Spec Bumper
-Molded Turn Signal Vents/Brake Ducting, License Plate Oil Cooler Fabrication
-LED Bar Turn Signals and Relocated License Plate
-Modified Rear Bumper / Fuel Cooler
-Modified Side Exit Front Fender Burn-Plate and Chassis Reinforcement
-Rear Polycarbonate Windshield / NACA Ducting
-Hatch Mounted Intercooler Water-to-Air Heat Exchange System
-Aerocatch Hood Pins
-Quicklatch Rear Hatch Pins

Engine:
-4 Rotor Full-Peripheral Port Block Built By Eccentric Motorsports
-Chips Motorsports Peripheral Port Coolant Modification / O-ringed Inserts
-Chips Motorsports Lightened/Balanced/Clearance Rotating Assembly
-Wiggins/Plazmaman Peripheral Port Intake Clamps with Viton O-Rings
-Aluminum Garrett Integrated Intercooled Water-To-Air Intake Manifold
-Plazmaman 100mm Throttlebody Unit with Progressive Throttle Cam
-Aluminum Fabricated Water Filler Neck

Forced Induction:
-Garrett Gen2 GTX5533R 98mm Dual Ceramic Ball-Bearing Turbocharger
-T51R Compressor Inlet Modification with Gold Plated Inlet
-Twin Turbosmart 50mm Pro-lite wastegates
-Turbosmart Inlet Pressure Relief Valve
-Plazmaman/Wiggins Inlet Clamshell Clamps
-MpFab Equal Length Large Primary 321 Schedule 10 Exhaust Manifold
/ Collector to 787b Specs Merge Angle/Order/Lengths
-MpFab Titanium Wastegate Exhaust Tubes
-MpFab Stainless Side Exit Exhaust
-MpFab Stainless Intake/Fuel Rail/Exhaust Heatshield
-DEI Gold Reflective Thermal Barrier Tape
-Lavarock Titanium Turbine Heat Blanket
-3-Port Mac-Valve Boost Control Unit

Fuel:
-4x Bosch 210lb / 4x Bosch 100lb Injectors
-Billet Fuel Rails / Stainless MP Fabrication Exhaust Heat Shielding
-Weldon Large 10an Return Style Regulator
-Full-Race Sump Modified OEM Fuel Tank
-Sump Mounted Remote Weldon 8GPM Mechanical Fuel Pump
-Waterman NASCAR Cable Drive System
-10-Micron Engine Bay Rail-Proximity Fuel
Filter
-AEM Water Injection Pump / Haltech Triggered
-Flex Fuel Sending Unit
-In-Tank EFI Primer Pump

Oil:
-Peterson R4 External G-Rotor Oil Pump / High Pressure Unit
-Built2Apex Billet Oil Pan / Internal Baffled / Trap Door
-Moroso Oil Accumulator System/




Electronics:
-Haltech Elite 2500 ECU
-Guldstand Pro EFI Mil-Spec Wiring Harness
-AEM Smart Coil Direct Fire Ignition
-4-Channel Exhaust Gas Temperature CAN-Bus Unit
-AEM X-Series Wideband Oxygen Sensor LSU 4.9 Bosch
-AEM 12-pot Adjustable Radial Boost Adjustment Switch
-Racepak/Haltech CAN-Dash
-Defi Tachometer / MAP / Oil Auxillary Gauges
-Carbon Switch Panels
-Remote Mount Battery Isolator Kill-Switch
-200Amp Alternator with External Adjustable Voltage Regulator
-16v Charging System / Battery XSPower
-Chassis Rewire/Wire Tuck / Hatch Mounted Fuse and Relay Boxes

Suspension:
-14kg/12kg Fortunate Auto 510 Series Adjustable Coil-overs
-Adjustable Camber Front Upper Control Arms
-Bump stop Adjustable Tie-rod End-links
-Manual Converted Steering Rack / Poly Rack Bushings
-Aftermarket Anti-Roll Bar Front and Adjustable Spherical Bearing Links
-Spherical Bearing Rear Trailing Arms
-Spherical Bearing Rear Toe Links

Cooling:
-CBR Racing Custom High-Density Front Mounted Radiator with Integrated Water-Pump Inlet
-SPAL 11” Off-Road Extreme CFM Fans with HD Upgraded Wiring and Circuit Breaker System
-Mezziere High-Flow Electric Water Pump with Feedback Closed-Loop Thermostatic Control
-Auxiliary Rotor Housing Spark Plug Cooling System for Rear Rotors
-Dual 30-Row Oil Coolers with SPAL Fan, Additional 15-Row Bumper Mounted Oil Cooler
-30-Row Return Line Fuel Cooler, Rear Bumper Mounted/Diffuser Exit
- Hatch Mounted Intercooler Water-to-Air Heat Exchange System / Two Auxiliary 25-Row Coolers Behind Seats
- 1 Gallon Intercooler Water Capacity Tank / Integrated Intercooler Water Pump

Brakes:
-Brembo Gran Turismo GT1/Ferrari F50 4 Piston Front Brake System
-Drilled Rotors Front/Rear with Stainless PTFE Lines
-Hawk DTC60/30 Front/Rear Racing Pads
-Reinforced Spring-Loaded 2.5” Brake Ducting
-Tig-Welded Stainless Steel Front Brake Rotor Ducted Backing Plates
-Chase Bay’s / Wildwood Master Cylinder and Brake Bias Adjustment System

Drivetrain:
-Carbonetic 1.5Way 32-Pack Carbon Clutched Differential
-Exedy Triple Plate Clutch
-PAR Dog-ringed Straight-Cut Gear Set
-Billet Transmission High Capacity Pan by Built-to-Apex

Wheels/Tires:
WORK Meister S1 3-Piece
Yokohama 250/640/18 Front and 300/680/18 Rear Full-Racing Slicks Medium Compound

Safety:
-10lb Fire-Suppression System / Cable-Pull Activation
-Halon Secondary Extinguisher / Driver Arm Rest
-SABELT 6pt Ferrari Challenge Harnesses
-BRIDE Fiberglass One-Piece Racing Seats
-Adjustable Ball-Bearing Seat Rail Sliders
-SFI Roll-Cage Padding

Paint:
-PPG Deltron Base/Clear

Last edited by Monsterbox; 05-23-19 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 05-23-19, 05:12 PM
  #1795  
Mazzei Formula

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Old 05-28-19, 12:47 PM
  #1796  
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Old 05-28-19, 12:50 PM
  #1797  
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Now that she's closer to dialed in 100%, it seems like the engine is taking a lot more fuel and making alot more power. Almost at 90% injector duty, at only 11-12psi boost. Same duty cycle as before at 18-20psi. Revving it out now to 9250, with limiter at 9500, and its making shitloads more power over 8500. The last 750rpm is just ridiculous, almost feels like its going to start spinning at the top of 3rd at 135mph. Wheel speed is just incredible now at the end of each gear. Have to get used to winding out this far. The last setup would roll over on power after about 8200rpm. The 20b used to go to around 7500 before I needed to shift. This thing just goes and goes. I'd love to turn it up but its just blistering now. Hope you guys enjoy!
Old 05-28-19, 10:58 PM
  #1798  
Built Not Bought

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Be careful. It would suck to see this get wrecked by some random person changing lanes not seeing it coming.
Old 05-29-19, 10:30 AM
  #1799  
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Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
Be careful. It would suck to see this get wrecked by some random person changing lanes not seeing it coming.

youre right! My stanky right foot gets tunnel vision and has a mind of its own Its hard to pull out when it feels so good.

No more pulls with people around. Only deserted areas from now on, and hopefully hit the track soon! Althought I dont think there's really any tracks around here that you can stretch its legs all the way top of 4th unless you have brakes the size of Manhattan
Old 05-29-19, 10:35 AM
  #1800  
Mazzei Formula

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Time for some race compound pads, DTC70/60 or 60/30 is the debate right now, any takers?

Then for some Castrol SRF fluid, coolant, diff, and trans flush, and ready for a send.

SPEC might be doing a clutch swap in next 2 weeks for a Carbon Triple, so we can lighten the assembly a bit and replace the Exedy. Its doing ok but sometimes it overheats and grabs way to harsh mid pedal and chatters really loud. Would be nice to have a look.


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