The Monsterbox 4 Rotor
04-07-16, 03:15 PM
#126
For that price I would be worrying even by the thought of wiring 30+k ahah.
Can go one of two way....you lose that money...or you get your parts.
What protection did you have with wiring that money?
I'm assuming PPRE isn't going to not give you the the 4-rotor, but I wouldn't have sent anything unless I knew I was protected ahah.
Let's hope they give you what you paid for and a race suit for waiting that long Ahahah
Can go one of two way....you lose that money...or you get your parts.
What protection did you have with wiring that money?
I'm assuming PPRE isn't going to not give you the the 4-rotor, but I wouldn't have sent anything unless I knew I was protected ahah.
Let's hope they give you what you paid for and a race suit for waiting that long Ahahah
04-07-16, 07:44 PM
#128
I'm not sure if this will make you feel any better, but "behind schedule" is a worldwide standard for large projects.
There are varying degrees of this represented on the forum here...
On a scale of Widefoot-Swaybar-Mounts to Rotary-Extreme-Vmounts, I'd say you're miles closer to the better end of the scale.
There are varying degrees of this represented on the forum here...
On a scale of Widefoot-Swaybar-Mounts to Rotary-Extreme-Vmounts, I'd say you're miles closer to the better end of the scale.
04-07-16, 08:49 PM
#129
I don't get number 2?
Ok guys so little update:
1. PPRE is 2x later than the quoted delivery. 9 weeks as of December 12 was the quoted delivery time. I wired $34,000 to them up-front. We are now at 18 weeks.
I spoke with him on the phone a few days ago and he assured me he'd send pics and get this engine out shortly. We'll see. But its time to start keeping tabs.
2. I don't know about you guys, but I"m fed up with the behavior of a certain few well-known cars, who are sponsored to the max, plastered with stickers, taking all the credibility in the industry for doing absolutely nothing, and helping the community in no way. I'm not going to name specifically, but its been entirely unnecessary, the behavior in my local community, which also extends nationally. Silver6port FD and a quite a few others are now coming forward to set the record straight, making sure credit is given were credit is due, and not to those who divide the community.
3. Shops / media who support this, realize that you may get away with this selective favoritism for the sake of exposure now, but the pendulum is swinging as the truth will soon begin to unfold.
This forum has been the best source of inspirations and motivations, help, and friendship. If it wasn't for spending 10 years with you guys, this build would never have been conceivable. The 3 rotor build thread was tremennnddoouuss. The amount of participation in helping to make that car run was astonishing. This is what its all about! This is the community that needs to be embraced.
Thank you guys for everything.
1. PPRE is 2x later than the quoted delivery. 9 weeks as of December 12 was the quoted delivery time. I wired $34,000 to them up-front. We are now at 18 weeks.
I spoke with him on the phone a few days ago and he assured me he'd send pics and get this engine out shortly. We'll see. But its time to start keeping tabs.
2. I don't know about you guys, but I"m fed up with the behavior of a certain few well-known cars, who are sponsored to the max, plastered with stickers, taking all the credibility in the industry for doing absolutely nothing, and helping the community in no way. I'm not going to name specifically, but its been entirely unnecessary, the behavior in my local community, which also extends nationally. Silver6port FD and a quite a few others are now coming forward to set the record straight, making sure credit is given were credit is due, and not to those who divide the community.
3. Shops / media who support this, realize that you may get away with this selective favoritism for the sake of exposure now, but the pendulum is swinging as the truth will soon begin to unfold.
This forum has been the best source of inspirations and motivations, help, and friendship. If it wasn't for spending 10 years with you guys, this build would never have been conceivable. The 3 rotor build thread was tremennnddoouuss. The amount of participation in helping to make that car run was astonishing. This is what its all about! This is the community that needs to be embraced.
Thank you guys for everything.
04-07-16, 11:26 PM
#132
Guys you know what I've been in bad spirits as of late and i don't want this to become the thread. Its not what this about and I regret having opened that discussion.
I'm not worried anyone really about the engine, just going to give it some time. And I don't want to bring negativity to any of this. Lets just see what happens. These guys are some of the best in the world, and its hard to have so much contact and be dealing with so many projects. They have been heroes
Just been alot of questionss and pressure as of late
No no2 is totaly unrelated
SOmetimes you just get to a point mentally where youre so invested financially, mentally, and physically into a build that it begins to tunnel the vision and make it less about the hours and the dream and more about things that shouldn't be given so much weight
The personal aspect of a build is really pretty deep for me. It consumes everything and is alot of mental, I don't want my reactions or thoughts at this moment in the timeline to define what will become comprehensive build one way or another.
The internet is also a good and bad place. The bad thing is emotions become solidified in a post. Thinking back its just unnecessary to worry about these things in context.
I"m going to remove these posts. Just going to think positive and keep pushing.
Thanks guys
I'm not worried anyone really about the engine, just going to give it some time. And I don't want to bring negativity to any of this. Lets just see what happens. These guys are some of the best in the world, and its hard to have so much contact and be dealing with so many projects. They have been heroes
Just been alot of questionss and pressure as of late
No no2 is totaly unrelated
SOmetimes you just get to a point mentally where youre so invested financially, mentally, and physically into a build that it begins to tunnel the vision and make it less about the hours and the dream and more about things that shouldn't be given so much weight
The personal aspect of a build is really pretty deep for me. It consumes everything and is alot of mental, I don't want my reactions or thoughts at this moment in the timeline to define what will become comprehensive build one way or another.
The internet is also a good and bad place. The bad thing is emotions become solidified in a post. Thinking back its just unnecessary to worry about these things in context.
I"m going to remove these posts. Just going to think positive and keep pushing.
Thanks guys
Last edited by Monsterbox; 04-07-16 at 11:33 PM.
04-08-16, 06:47 AM
#134
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Keep your chin up, your builds have been motivating many of us! As Silver stated this is something that no one else is doing, they're probably giving your 4 rotor the same attention to detail you've been giving that amazing paint job!
04-09-16, 11:32 AM
#135
Thanks guys,
getting back on it today. Installing all the brake lines and starting on the oil cooler and water-to-air coolers, and ice box/pump setup. Then onto fuse boxes and trigger wiring, then to device power wires.
Next will be body panels, buff the wetsanded areas, install main fuel pump, filter, lines, and oil cooler lines
Then the body will be literally finished, besides windshield, which going to leave out, maybe even permanently haha only thing left is wait for the engine/mechanical stuff
getting back on it today. Installing all the brake lines and starting on the oil cooler and water-to-air coolers, and ice box/pump setup. Then onto fuse boxes and trigger wiring, then to device power wires.
Next will be body panels, buff the wetsanded areas, install main fuel pump, filter, lines, and oil cooler lines
Then the body will be literally finished, besides windshield, which going to leave out, maybe even permanently haha only thing left is wait for the engine/mechanical stuff
04-09-16, 05:29 PM
#136
Thanks guys,
getting back on it today. Installing all the brake lines and starting on the oil cooler and water-to-air coolers, and ice box/pump setup. Then onto fuse boxes and trigger wiring, then to device power wires.
Next will be body panels, buff the wetsanded areas, install main fuel pump, filter, lines, and oil cooler lines
Then the body will be literally finished, besides windshield, which going to leave out, maybe even permanently haha only thing left is wait for the engine/mechanical stuff
getting back on it today. Installing all the brake lines and starting on the oil cooler and water-to-air coolers, and ice box/pump setup. Then onto fuse boxes and trigger wiring, then to device power wires.
Next will be body panels, buff the wetsanded areas, install main fuel pump, filter, lines, and oil cooler lines
Then the body will be literally finished, besides windshield, which going to leave out, maybe even permanently haha only thing left is wait for the engine/mechanical stuff
04-10-16, 11:11 AM
#138
Going to install the coolers for the water-to-air and the oil and run the lines through the car and get the fittings chosen, then just wait until engines here to finalize the lines to/from engine
04-10-16, 11:34 AM
#139
I've made products for retail before and as much as I've wanted to be able to provide the items within a promised date that I passed on to my customers; I was at the mercy of the ability of the machine shops to make those deadlines.
I will say this. I've learned a lot about how things actually work in that world. They give unrealistic or best case scenario dates in order to secure the work. They do that so they never run out of work. It's better for them to be behind with due dates then to be early and run out of work. That's just how things work in that business. Those types of shops won't survive if they are sitting idle. They always take on more than they can do. They are always behind.
So take it for what it's worth, its better you accept the way the business is run and just wait it out. The end product is what will matter most given their reputation of what little I've heard about them.
I will say this. I've learned a lot about how things actually work in that world. They give unrealistic or best case scenario dates in order to secure the work. They do that so they never run out of work. It's better for them to be behind with due dates then to be early and run out of work. That's just how things work in that business. Those types of shops won't survive if they are sitting idle. They always take on more than they can do. They are always behind.
So take it for what it's worth, its better you accept the way the business is run and just wait it out. The end product is what will matter most given their reputation of what little I've heard about them.
04-10-16, 12:37 PM
#140
I see your point zoomzoom. However, theres no excuse for not providing updates and assurance to a customer.
I work in commercial real estate appraising. We sign an engagement letter that states our fee and due date, so that the client can depend on the deadline for loan closing etc.
If we are late, we are charged for each day a penalty.
Part of business is being able to project your work schedule. If you are 2x, 3x later than the projection, then what is the point of the projection to begin with?
Id rather be told 1 yr and have the product in 6 months, then be told 2 months and have the product in 6 months.
The concern is not that the product is late, its that the word/trust is diminished.
If this is somehow an industry standard that I've missed, then no wonder this industry is dying.
I work in commercial real estate appraising. We sign an engagement letter that states our fee and due date, so that the client can depend on the deadline for loan closing etc.
If we are late, we are charged for each day a penalty.
Part of business is being able to project your work schedule. If you are 2x, 3x later than the projection, then what is the point of the projection to begin with?
Id rather be told 1 yr and have the product in 6 months, then be told 2 months and have the product in 6 months.
The concern is not that the product is late, its that the word/trust is diminished.
If this is somehow an industry standard that I've missed, then no wonder this industry is dying.
04-10-16, 02:12 PM
#142
I wouldn't say the timing thing is industry standard, but it is certainly common. Most people running shops are not businessmen. So they don't necessarily have the skill or time to run it like a commercial real estate business.
Not saying it's right. But that's why there are always a few terrible reviews for even the best known shops. It just happens.
Not saying it's right. But that's why there are always a few terrible reviews for even the best known shops. It just happens.
04-10-16, 03:04 PM
#143
I see your point zoomzoom. However, theres no excuse for not providing updates and assurance to a customer.
I work in commercial real estate appraising. We sign an engagement letter that states our fee and due date, so that the client can depend on the deadline for loan closing etc.
If we are late, we are charged for each day a penalty.
Part of business is being able to project your work schedule. If you are 2x, 3x later than the projection, then what is the point of the projection to begin with?
Id rather be told 1 yr and have the product in 6 months, then be told 2 months and have the product in 6 months.
The concern is not that the product is late, its that the word/trust is diminished.
If this is somehow an industry standard that I've missed, then no wonder this industry is dying.
I work in commercial real estate appraising. We sign an engagement letter that states our fee and due date, so that the client can depend on the deadline for loan closing etc.
If we are late, we are charged for each day a penalty.
Part of business is being able to project your work schedule. If you are 2x, 3x later than the projection, then what is the point of the projection to begin with?
Id rather be told 1 yr and have the product in 6 months, then be told 2 months and have the product in 6 months.
The concern is not that the product is late, its that the word/trust is diminished.
If this is somehow an industry standard that I've missed, then no wonder this industry is dying.
04-11-16, 12:05 AM
#145
Guys,
I'm not blasting them or trying to give a bad review/wrap here.
I'm just hoping for the best and that everything works out.
Yes, I understand a lot of shops may not operate like a real estate business.
Simply put, its a bit stressful, having made such a large investment and just waiting to see what happens. Questions pop up like, go ahead and order the fuel and ignition components? Or wait to see if any problems arise? And no, have not yet received pictures. I'm sure the stress will settle when I see the updates. I take everything very serious about a build, time is cost. I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
Just going to keep pushing and see what happens. More then likely, as some have already stated, its just nature of the process and it will surely work out.
I'm not blasting them or trying to give a bad review/wrap here.
I'm just hoping for the best and that everything works out.
Yes, I understand a lot of shops may not operate like a real estate business.
Simply put, its a bit stressful, having made such a large investment and just waiting to see what happens. Questions pop up like, go ahead and order the fuel and ignition components? Or wait to see if any problems arise? And no, have not yet received pictures. I'm sure the stress will settle when I see the updates. I take everything very serious about a build, time is cost. I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
Just going to keep pushing and see what happens. More then likely, as some have already stated, its just nature of the process and it will surely work out.
Last edited by Monsterbox; 04-11-16 at 12:09 AM.
04-11-16, 11:31 AM
#146
Rotary Enthusiast
I've made products for retail before and as much as I've wanted to be able to provide the items within a promised date that I passed on to my customers; I was at the mercy of the ability of the machine shops to make those deadlines.
I will say this. I've learned a lot about how things actually work in that world. They give unrealistic or best case scenario dates in order to secure the work. They do that so they never run out of work. It's better for them to be behind with due dates then to be early and run out of work. That's just how things work in that business. Those types of shops won't survive if they are sitting idle. They always take on more than they can do. They are always behind.
So take it for what it's worth, its better you accept the way the business is run and just wait it out. The end product is what will matter most given their reputation of what little I've heard about them.
I will say this. I've learned a lot about how things actually work in that world. They give unrealistic or best case scenario dates in order to secure the work. They do that so they never run out of work. It's better for them to be behind with due dates then to be early and run out of work. That's just how things work in that business. Those types of shops won't survive if they are sitting idle. They always take on more than they can do. They are always behind.
So take it for what it's worth, its better you accept the way the business is run and just wait it out. The end product is what will matter most given their reputation of what little I've heard about them.
Email them everyday for status and don't get pissed when they don't respond. It lets them know that you are serious about getting your engine on the short end of the timeline. Also, I am sure they dont want to send you and email saying "didn't touch your engine this week, got busy with other larger customers."
They will most likely email you when they have a good update.
04-11-16, 12:11 PM
#147
My industry is Military Aircraft MRO. The key to success is to not to have a full production halt when your waiting on overdue material to arrive. I realize that you are probably running on the short end of the list of things to do before the engine arrives, but dont let that discourage you.
^^^ My work life too.
It is a short crank 4 rotor so you can get trashed housings from your friends and assemble your own dummy motor with some metric all-thread holding it together in corners opposite the dowels.
This will get you to where you can fabricate the sub-frame and engine mounts.
This won't help with intake, but you can get your exhaust done.
You should know what front cover/water pump you are going to use so you can get the oil and coolant plumbing done (unless your engine guy is supplying the front cover and you can't get it early.).
I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
You are a bad ***!
^^^ My work life too.
It is a short crank 4 rotor so you can get trashed housings from your friends and assemble your own dummy motor with some metric all-thread holding it together in corners opposite the dowels.
This will get you to where you can fabricate the sub-frame and engine mounts.
This won't help with intake, but you can get your exhaust done.
You should know what front cover/water pump you are going to use so you can get the oil and coolant plumbing done (unless your engine guy is supplying the front cover and you can't get it early.).
I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
You are a bad ***!
04-11-16, 01:05 PM
#148
Please excuse the camera. I'll buy a new one soon as the good stuff arrives haha
What your looking at is two oil coolers with fans utilized as heat exchangers for the water-to-air setup. The box is the water cell with a Rule bilge pump installed internally. This holds 3 gallons of water and ice if desired.
Behind the coolers, squares are cut out of the storage bin metal. For now it vents directly outside, and is sealed to the storage bin metal with weather stripping.
I'm sure people will think this is nuts, but I love it.
-No fmic, no vmount, no extra weight on the nose of the car, and nothing blocking the radiator whatsoever
-To add to the coolers, a simple 700-1000CC of water injection in conjunction will surely do the trick.
12an lines will run too and from the water-to-air core that's suppose to be built into the intake manifold of the engine and return back to the water cell. The lines will pass through the firewall at the existing heater core line holes tucked behind the engine.
Next up is the Fuel pump/filter/surge tank setup.
04-11-16, 01:09 PM
#149
My industry is Military Aircraft MRO. The key to success is to not to have a full production halt when your waiting on overdue material to arrive. I realize that you are probably running on the short end of the list of things to do before the engine arrives, but dont let that discourage you.
^^^ My work life too.
It is a short crank 4 rotor so you can get trashed housings from your friends and assemble your own dummy motor with some metric all-thread holding it together in corners opposite the dowels.
This will get you to where you can fabricate the sub-frame and engine mounts.
This won't help with intake, but you can get your exhaust done.
You should know what front cover/water pump you are going to use so you can get the oil and coolant plumbing done (unless your engine guy is supplying the front cover and you can't get it early.).
I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
You are a bad ***!
^^^ My work life too.
It is a short crank 4 rotor so you can get trashed housings from your friends and assemble your own dummy motor with some metric all-thread holding it together in corners opposite the dowels.
This will get you to where you can fabricate the sub-frame and engine mounts.
This won't help with intake, but you can get your exhaust done.
You should know what front cover/water pump you are going to use so you can get the oil and coolant plumbing done (unless your engine guy is supplying the front cover and you can't get it early.).
I sleep in the storage unit 4 nights a week to maintain the budget and certainly don't plan on giving up.
You are a bad ***!
Thanks man!!!
and good points!!
the primary concern is not that I don't have the parts to keep building ahead, but the worry that parts will not be delivered and/or costs issues may arise later. Don't want to spend all the reserves until the parts are here if you know what I mean.
Rob dahms got lost by ups
Ill just keep kicking around with small things for the mean time haha
Last edited by Monsterbox; 04-11-16 at 02:04 PM.
04-11-16, 01:59 PM
#150
Just want to clear something up and share a thought:
A lot of personal builds we see in the car world take long amounts of time. Some builds even lasting 10 years. In the case of 3 rotor cars, I used to read build threads on here and feel discouraged for years by the timelines it took people to complete these swaps. But its really just a difference in personality and preference.
It seems the vast majority of personal builders are doing it because they just like building. They like the time to think and tinker with the car. To spend time with their friends and family and then make a few hours here and there. Or maybe they are saving money to finance the build and spend it along the way. And I think because this is the most common style, we assume that everyone thinks this way. And there's nothing wrong with that, some amazing cars are built this way. Not rush, time spent in all avenues on the best parts.
A build to me may not seem that important to others, because I'm not a shop doing this work for a customer, I'm not developing new parts, nor am I a race team.
But when it comes down to it, my driving motivation is the sacrifice. I've saved since 2006 to do this build. Sold the last car to fund it, which took 10 years to reach. Sacrifice free time, family, friends, entirely to do things, because in my opinion, that's what it takes to get there. So to me, time is sacrifice. I look at a build this way, 700 hours, life is on pause until those have passed. The longer it takes to complete the goal, the more is sacrificed. The more life we can't get back.
The goal is not to build a 4 rotor. The goal is to drive the 4 rotor. And until that goal is met, life stops. Call me crazy, but this train isn't stopping until the job is done.
And so I don't think any of us should have to lower our expectations of ourselves and of others, for any reason.
A lot of personal builds we see in the car world take long amounts of time. Some builds even lasting 10 years. In the case of 3 rotor cars, I used to read build threads on here and feel discouraged for years by the timelines it took people to complete these swaps. But its really just a difference in personality and preference.
It seems the vast majority of personal builders are doing it because they just like building. They like the time to think and tinker with the car. To spend time with their friends and family and then make a few hours here and there. Or maybe they are saving money to finance the build and spend it along the way. And I think because this is the most common style, we assume that everyone thinks this way. And there's nothing wrong with that, some amazing cars are built this way. Not rush, time spent in all avenues on the best parts.
A build to me may not seem that important to others, because I'm not a shop doing this work for a customer, I'm not developing new parts, nor am I a race team.
But when it comes down to it, my driving motivation is the sacrifice. I've saved since 2006 to do this build. Sold the last car to fund it, which took 10 years to reach. Sacrifice free time, family, friends, entirely to do things, because in my opinion, that's what it takes to get there. So to me, time is sacrifice. I look at a build this way, 700 hours, life is on pause until those have passed. The longer it takes to complete the goal, the more is sacrificed. The more life we can't get back.
The goal is not to build a 4 rotor. The goal is to drive the 4 rotor. And until that goal is met, life stops. Call me crazy, but this train isn't stopping until the job is done.
And so I don't think any of us should have to lower our expectations of ourselves and of others, for any reason.
Last edited by Monsterbox; 04-11-16 at 02:06 PM.