Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
I know I need to take some pics and post them up and I will do that by this weekend. Still working away on the car but I guess we are never done.
11-28-16, 09:50 AM
#4378
Have meant to post up for some time now but wanted to be "finished". We all know that is a relative term when it comes to the FD. 
In any event, ever so close to being done and I will post up a lot more then. For now though, a few teaser shots and a video:
Car at recent Cars and Coffee event:
Close to current state of engine bay:
Car during recent dyno tuning (low boost):
More to come very soon!
In any event, ever so close to being done and I will post up a lot more then. For now though, a few teaser shots and a video:
Car at recent Cars and Coffee event:
Close to current state of engine bay:
Car during recent dyno tuning (low boost):
More to come very soon!
11-29-16, 10:48 AM
#4382
Thanks guys! I am scheduled to pick up the car on Thursday so we shall see how that goes. Had in a more local shop for tuning. That uncovered a fuel pump and meth pump issue. The fuel issue has been resolved and the meth pump replacement just showed up so we can now turn up the boost.
If all goes well, I will soon post up the story, pics, and videos. Stay tuned!
If all goes well, I will soon post up the story, pics, and videos. Stay tuned!
12-02-16, 06:06 PM
#4386
^ Not good but much better than it happening out on the road or the track. I took it as the rotary gods telling me to swap out to ID injectors so that is what is happening. 1000s on the primaries and 2000s for the secondaries with the FFE sleeves.
Will be a much better solution than the RC Engineering injectors. Should provide better tunability and a smoother idle.
Will be a much better solution than the RC Engineering injectors. Should provide better tunability and a smoother idle.
12-02-16, 10:43 PM
#4387
^ Not good but much better than it happening out on the road or the track. I took it as the rotary gods telling me to swap out to ID injectors so that is what is happening. 1000s on the primaries and 2000s for the secondaries with the FFE sleeves.
Will be a much better solution than the RC Engineering injectors. Should provide better tunability and a smoother idle.
Will be a much better solution than the RC Engineering injectors. Should provide better tunability and a smoother idle.
12-03-16, 04:01 PM
#4389
In the meantime, a few shots of the car on the dyno:
12-11-16, 10:44 AM
#4392
Thanks Neil. Not in Jax, up in Asheville. Going to any track events soon?
Still waiting. The injectors were swapped out for the ID units and the car has been drivability tuned. Boost tuning will happen early this week, barring another issue. Think we will have success now as we've amped up the fuel system with two new Walbro pumps and new wiring as well as the CJ Motorsports fuel pump hanger, the meth pump has been replaced with one from Devil's Own and wired into the Haltech ECU, and finally, new ID injectors and FFE sleeves.
More to come - and hopefully very soon.
Still waiting. The injectors were swapped out for the ID units and the car has been drivability tuned. Boost tuning will happen early this week, barring another issue. Think we will have success now as we've amped up the fuel system with two new Walbro pumps and new wiring as well as the CJ Motorsports fuel pump hanger, the meth pump has been replaced with one from Devil's Own and wired into the Haltech ECU, and finally, new ID injectors and FFE sleeves.
More to come - and hopefully very soon.
12-11-16, 11:26 AM
#4393
David I'm thinking you need alottafuelpumps, maybe 3 or 4! Also not sure if you have them joined but I read an article many years ago that explained why I failed badly when trying to T two supra pumps together and how inefficient that setup is.
Large run on sentence: Essentially since the pumps are limited by the fp regulator, when you have them joined together they get complacent and neither of them puts in their best effort, they are capable of so much more each alone, kind of like the opposite of hillary clinton's campaign slogan, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Large run on sentence: Essentially since the pumps are limited by the fp regulator, when you have them joined together they get complacent and neither of them puts in their best effort, they are capable of so much more each alone, kind of like the opposite of hillary clinton's campaign slogan, not that there's anything wrong with that.
12-11-16, 11:54 AM
#4394
^ Hey Yanni! Good to hear from you. The two Walbro pumps should be more than enough for my setup. With the old setup (2 Denso pumps) we could see fuel pressure start at 40 PSI, rise to 60 PSI when the second pump kicked in (under boost) but then drop down quickly to 35 PSI. This only happened when we tried to boost above 13 PSI or so.
What most likely was occurring was the primary fuel pump was wired as a stock pump and it wasn't getting proper voltage under load, so it couldn't keep up with the demand. This is a guess as we didn't test this but the wiring was not up to snuff and was most likely the root cause of the problems.
The Denso pumps had been in the tank for around 10 years so we didn't want to take chances on an inexpensive part, so out they came and were replaced by the Walbros. The shop happened to have a CJ Motorsports hanger in stock and it's a great looking unit, so I opted to have that installed as well. Too bad you can't see it as it really is a work of art compared to the OEM hanger. The shop then inspected and replaced the primary fuel pump wiring. Since doing the above, we now have constant fuel pressure with no drops.
I am pretty sure the pumps are set up independently with the main pump feeding the primary fuel rail and the second pump, the secondary rail, but I only have one FPR so I am confused.
In any event, the setup seems to be working well.
With the new ID injectors and the fuel pumps, I no longer have a cold start issue. Under cold starting, the car had a spot or two that caused it to stumble and die and no tuning would fix it. With the new setup, no issues at all. Most likely the ID injectors but thought I mention it.
What most likely was occurring was the primary fuel pump was wired as a stock pump and it wasn't getting proper voltage under load, so it couldn't keep up with the demand. This is a guess as we didn't test this but the wiring was not up to snuff and was most likely the root cause of the problems.
The Denso pumps had been in the tank for around 10 years so we didn't want to take chances on an inexpensive part, so out they came and were replaced by the Walbros. The shop happened to have a CJ Motorsports hanger in stock and it's a great looking unit, so I opted to have that installed as well. Too bad you can't see it as it really is a work of art compared to the OEM hanger. The shop then inspected and replaced the primary fuel pump wiring. Since doing the above, we now have constant fuel pressure with no drops.
I am pretty sure the pumps are set up independently with the main pump feeding the primary fuel rail and the second pump, the secondary rail, but I only have one FPR so I am confused.
In any event, the setup seems to be working well.With the new ID injectors and the fuel pumps, I no longer have a cold start issue. Under cold starting, the car had a spot or two that caused it to stumble and die and no tuning would fix it. With the new setup, no issues at all. Most likely the ID injectors but thought I mention it.
12-11-16, 12:05 PM
#4395
David I'm glad to hear that it's working! I bet there are a lot of parts on your car like the fuel pump hanger if you think about it, that are over engineered and nobody knows they're even there.
I just imagined a 3 rotor would require so much fuel but I also didn't ask how much boost and power you're trying to make. I think we've said before that you want a power range that's impressive but nothing where it becomes unusable or unreliable.
What kind of power are you looking for and how much boost do you think you'll have to run?
I'd be hard pressed to have a 3 rotor and not put the most massive turbo on there and try to push the limits of high hp, still immature I guess. I recently drove my friends 700rwhp supra on pump but with huge turbo that makes 1200 on high boost for a few hours and it was a blast. The turbo lag did get kind of old though. I think a fast spooling turbo with no power gets old too though, so you are probably right that there's a sweet spot for enjoyability.
I just imagined a 3 rotor would require so much fuel but I also didn't ask how much boost and power you're trying to make. I think we've said before that you want a power range that's impressive but nothing where it becomes unusable or unreliable.
What kind of power are you looking for and how much boost do you think you'll have to run?
I'd be hard pressed to have a 3 rotor and not put the most massive turbo on there and try to push the limits of high hp, still immature I guess. I recently drove my friends 700rwhp supra on pump but with huge turbo that makes 1200 on high boost for a few hours and it was a blast. The turbo lag did get kind of old though. I think a fast spooling turbo with no power gets old too though, so you are probably right that there's a sweet spot for enjoyability.
Last edited by Snook; 12-11-16 at 12:07 PM.
12-11-16, 02:24 PM
#4396
^ Yes, on the over engineered parts. Want things to be up to my standard but don't we all?
Not going over 20 PSI or so at high boost as that amount makes more HP than I am capable of driving. The last time we did this, with the old turbo, we made around 675 WHP at 18.5 PSI. I would expect to make more this time but we shall see.
Frankly, I drive the car at the 13 PSI setting, or about 575 WHP. That is plenty for me. If I could master this at the track, then I'd turn up the boost, but for now, it's a nice level to gain more expertise on.
Not going over 20 PSI or so at high boost as that amount makes more HP than I am capable of driving. The last time we did this, with the old turbo, we made around 675 WHP at 18.5 PSI. I would expect to make more this time but we shall see.
Frankly, I drive the car at the 13 PSI setting, or about 575 WHP. That is plenty for me. If I could master this at the track, then I'd turn up the boost, but for now, it's a nice level to gain more expertise on.
12-12-16, 08:18 AM
#4397
I think your standards are way up there!
It's rare to find others at that level as you know.
Those hp goals are totally reasonable. After all we are talking about an FD, which with 400rwhp traps 125mph. 500, 600 or 700 with better Tq and Hp Power Bands and the higher peak Hp of the 3 rotor.. Im sure goes well enough!
Of course I know youre talking about the real track, a road coarse not 1/4, where outrageous power is not what gets you results.
It's rare to find others at that level as you know.
Those hp goals are totally reasonable. After all we are talking about an FD, which with 400rwhp traps 125mph. 500, 600 or 700 with better Tq and Hp Power Bands and the higher peak Hp of the 3 rotor.. Im sure goes well enough!
Of course I know youre talking about the real track, a road coarse not 1/4, where outrageous power is not what gets you results.
Last edited by Snook; 12-12-16 at 08:21 AM.
12-12-16, 04:22 PM
#4398
^ Thanks Yanni. Yes, road courses for me versus the 1/4. I'm just not a straight line kind of person. Would prefer to have as much available power as soon as possible versus chasing the HP high end. Of course, having a dyno graph with great results isn't bad for bragging rights.
Yes, road courses for me versus the 1/4. I'm just not a straight line kind of person. Would prefer to have as much available power as soon as possible versus chasing the HP high end. Of course, having a dyno graph with great results isn't bad for bragging rights.
12-15-16, 02:14 PM
#4399
Good way to go, E85. The cooling effect on the engine is a rotary positive. My problem here in Asheville is there aren't many places to find E85. The only station I know of is out at the airport and that is quite a hike from where I live. You might want to check that out before going to DGRR so you are not stranded. I don't know of a station out that way.
Luckily, I'm about 2 miles from E85 station. Not sure of the quality so I'll be running flex sensor and use dry lock fitting on the system so I can drain the E85 or pump gas easier. I'll be posting more about it soon.
12-21-16, 05:46 PM
#4400
Big Update - It's Done - A Christmas Miracle!
So, been waiting to post this update for some time. The car is now done, tuned and back on the road. A big thanks to Addicted Performance in Maryville TN for their professionalism, expertise and hard work. Thank you Zach and crew!
First, the numbers. We made 559 WHP and 429 lb ft of torque at around 15 PSI and 646 WHP and 503 lb ft of torque at 18 PSI and above. Here are the dyno sheets:
The max WHP numbers are down from the previous dyno runs I did a few years ago with the old Precision T78 turbo. Here they are for comparison:
While the max WHP is down, the new Borg Warner turbo outperforms the Precision in usable WHP and torque. Compare the before and after dyno charts to see I have a much broader band of torque available and also more WHP sooner in RPMs. The car is now much more "peppy" with the wider torque band. It really gets up and goes. I am going to send the dyno charts to Borg Warner for their analysis, but I'd guess the curves reflect my conversations with them and my desire to road track the car. Should be a blast to take out and test.
It was not easy getting to this point. I'll post up details and pics later, but a simple tuning event turned into:
1) Replacing and rewiring the fuel pumps
2) Replacing the AEM methanol system with a Devil's Own pump controlled thru the Haltech ECU
3) Properly rewiring the AEM coils
4) Repairing two boost/vacuum leaks where the UIM meets the throttle body
So, Addicted had the car for about two months, much longer than the originally scheduled day tuning event. I really appreciate them hanging in there and taking the time to diagnose the issues and repair as we went along. But it is done and I picked up and drove the car back on Monday evening.
Got to run out but will add more including pics taken over the last few months. Here though are a few shots I took with my iPhone of a video/pic session just done. Thanks to Chad of Addicted:
First, the numbers. We made 559 WHP and 429 lb ft of torque at around 15 PSI and 646 WHP and 503 lb ft of torque at 18 PSI and above. Here are the dyno sheets:
The max WHP numbers are down from the previous dyno runs I did a few years ago with the old Precision T78 turbo. Here they are for comparison:
While the max WHP is down, the new Borg Warner turbo outperforms the Precision in usable WHP and torque. Compare the before and after dyno charts to see I have a much broader band of torque available and also more WHP sooner in RPMs. The car is now much more "peppy" with the wider torque band. It really gets up and goes. I am going to send the dyno charts to Borg Warner for their analysis, but I'd guess the curves reflect my conversations with them and my desire to road track the car. Should be a blast to take out and test.
It was not easy getting to this point. I'll post up details and pics later, but a simple tuning event turned into:
1) Replacing and rewiring the fuel pumps
2) Replacing the AEM methanol system with a Devil's Own pump controlled thru the Haltech ECU
3) Properly rewiring the AEM coils
4) Repairing two boost/vacuum leaks where the UIM meets the throttle body
So, Addicted had the car for about two months, much longer than the originally scheduled day tuning event. I really appreciate them hanging in there and taking the time to diagnose the issues and repair as we went along. But it is done and I picked up and drove the car back on Monday evening.
Got to run out but will add more including pics taken over the last few months. Here though are a few shots I took with my iPhone of a video/pic session just done. Thanks to Chad of Addicted: