FD Rebuild from "Down Under" (with pics)
12-03-06, 05:08 AM
#1
FD Rebuild from "Down Under" (with pics)
Hey Guys, I finally accepted defeat today and began my engine rebuild. I will post pics and updates as I complete the build. I have never rebuilt a rotary before, but have a bit of experience with (those other) types of engines.
I will be using the Bruce Turrentine DVDs on R&R and rebuilding the 13B. I have a TV in the shed I pinched from the games room in the house and a DVD player so I can watch Bruce do it, pause, then do it myself. Couldn't be easier!
I work full time so I will be doing the project most evenings during the week, and hopefully most weekends. I plan on keeping my FD for a long time so I want to do things right the first time, not that I'm a perfectionist, just want reliability so will be paying attention to all the small details.
Progress will be steady as I am prohibited from using noisy air tools & compressors, etc whilst my 14 month old daughter sleeps.
I had a good days work getting the engine out and partially stripped of the turbos, air pump, etc. A nice easy day and didn't go out to break any records!
I will be using the Bruce Turrentine DVDs on R&R and rebuilding the 13B. I have a TV in the shed I pinched from the games room in the house and a DVD player so I can watch Bruce do it, pause, then do it myself. Couldn't be easier!
I work full time so I will be doing the project most evenings during the week, and hopefully most weekends. I plan on keeping my FD for a long time so I want to do things right the first time, not that I'm a perfectionist, just want reliability so will be paying attention to all the small details.
Progress will be steady as I am prohibited from using noisy air tools & compressors, etc whilst my 14 month old daughter sleeps.
I had a good days work getting the engine out and partially stripped of the turbos, air pump, etc. A nice easy day and didn't go out to break any records!
12-03-06, 06:57 AM
#2
Good work, I will be watching this one, keep the piccys comming.
Wonder if you could help.
A friend of mine is rebuilding atm, hes got to the stage of pulling the engine apart from the gearbox but it wont part, hes opend the access hole in the gearbox taken the bolts out the clutch rotating the engine to get to each and removed the housing bolts all the way round but it will only part about 1 inch wont seperate any further.
Any ideas as to what may be keeping it there ?
Wonder if you could help.
A friend of mine is rebuilding atm, hes got to the stage of pulling the engine apart from the gearbox but it wont part, hes opend the access hole in the gearbox taken the bolts out the clutch rotating the engine to get to each and removed the housing bolts all the way round but it will only part about 1 inch wont seperate any further.
Any ideas as to what may be keeping it there ?
12-03-06, 09:46 AM
#4
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Nice little workspace you've got there, I really like the set-up. Looks like this might be another good reference re-build thread.
Are you planning on doing a write-up at all? If you don't have the time to take all the pics and transmit the info. necessary for one, you can just list the wrong doings and solutions for future reference help for all us DIY'rs. Can never have too much.
Good luck
Are you planning on doing a write-up at all? If you don't have the time to take all the pics and transmit the info. necessary for one, you can just list the wrong doings and solutions for future reference help for all us DIY'rs. Can never have too much.
Good luck
12-03-06, 03:29 PM
#5
Veger, I had to give the clutch a good few pumps then fiddle with the angle of the hoist when seperating. Also I used a block of wood to support the gearbox not a trolley jack as instructed in the Turrentine DVD. Good luck to your friend and get stuck into it!
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12-05-06, 04:35 AM
#9
I had a good nights work tonight. Got all accessories and ancillaries off and tucked them away until cleaning and re-assembly.
I just want to say that every vacuum line i had to remove was absolutely as hard as a ROCK! Brittle and fought me all the way. I was careful and gentle and managed to get them all off without breaking any fittings on check valves, etc. I have silicon replacement hosing so will be replacing all hoses on re-assembly.
I also carefully collected each nut and bolt as I removed them and placed them in a small freezer bag and wrote what part they were off to make re-assembly a little easier. (see attached pics below)
There is a fair amount of sludgy deposits evident around the LIM area of the rear rotor housing so I definately have suspisions about something abnormal there. I have peeked inside the exhaust ports with a torch and as far as I can tell the front housing looks nice and unscored........shortly I will know the full story.
At the moment progress is halted until I can borrow / buy a 54mm socket to remove the flywheel and crack the engine apart.
Stay tuned for pics of the engine and components once apart!!!!
I just want to say that every vacuum line i had to remove was absolutely as hard as a ROCK! Brittle and fought me all the way. I was careful and gentle and managed to get them all off without breaking any fittings on check valves, etc. I have silicon replacement hosing so will be replacing all hoses on re-assembly.
I also carefully collected each nut and bolt as I removed them and placed them in a small freezer bag and wrote what part they were off to make re-assembly a little easier. (see attached pics below)
There is a fair amount of sludgy deposits evident around the LIM area of the rear rotor housing so I definately have suspisions about something abnormal there. I have peeked inside the exhaust ports with a torch and as far as I can tell the front housing looks nice and unscored........shortly I will know the full story.
At the moment progress is halted until I can borrow / buy a 54mm socket to remove the flywheel and crack the engine apart.
Stay tuned for pics of the engine and components once apart!!!!
12-05-06, 08:23 AM
#12
Rotary Freak
Glad to see someone else doing this. I'm in the same position as you. I have now 2 torn down engines, compeltely apart. I had hoped to reuse the front plate of the 2nd engine for my rebuild because all other plates were witin the MAzda Workshop manual specs. Too bad I had to find out that somehow, one of the corner seals had severly scratch the front plate. I'm now considering to sell all my good plates and invest in completely new plates (and housings). So'ill end up with an allmost new engine (except for the rotors and exc shaft). New stat bearings and new rotor bearings will go in the new engine.
I don't know if you'r going to go with the seq turbo's again, but I have decided not to. I'll go non seq because I always drive the car in the upper 3000rpm area (find out yourself when you are under that rpm area and ask yourself the question why to stick with all the vacuum trouble). I have stripped the intake from all devices except for the BAC unit (automatic idle control) but I might even throw that out as well.
i can recommend the website www.rhdjapan.com for OEM parts. You can ask them anything (even for OEM Mazda parts not on the website) and they will provide a good quote.
I have the DIY 4 DVD series and it's very good as well. If you feel to go into detail, let me know (PM)
Neal
TIP: you'll need to reposition your engine stand to take the engine apart. You can do this with the paterial you have in the picture. You need to attach the engine stand to the front iron, where the AC/powersteering pump bracket is. Take the bracket of and use the 4 bolt holes in the front iron's side. You'll need 2 different bolt sizes and do might the lenght.
I can send you a picture of how to position the adapter arms on your engine stand to use them on the front plate.
speedworks@pandora.be
I don't know if you'r going to go with the seq turbo's again, but I have decided not to. I'll go non seq because I always drive the car in the upper 3000rpm area (find out yourself when you are under that rpm area and ask yourself the question why to stick with all the vacuum trouble). I have stripped the intake from all devices except for the BAC unit (automatic idle control) but I might even throw that out as well.
i can recommend the website www.rhdjapan.com for OEM parts. You can ask them anything (even for OEM Mazda parts not on the website) and they will provide a good quote.
I have the DIY 4 DVD series and it's very good as well. If you feel to go into detail, let me know (PM)
Neal
TIP: you'll need to reposition your engine stand to take the engine apart. You can do this with the paterial you have in the picture. You need to attach the engine stand to the front iron, where the AC/powersteering pump bracket is. Take the bracket of and use the 4 bolt holes in the front iron's side. You'll need 2 different bolt sizes and do might the lenght.
I can send you a picture of how to position the adapter arms on your engine stand to use them on the front plate.
speedworks@pandora.be
12-05-06, 08:40 AM
#13
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Originally Posted by Speedworks
I don't know if you'r going to go with the seq turbo's again, but I have decided not to. I'll go non seq because I always drive the car in the upper 3000rpm area (find out yourself when you are under that rpm area and ask yourself the question why to stick with all the vacuum trouble).
12-07-06, 03:56 AM
#14
OK So I got her stripped down to her undies tonight guys.........
The verdict is pretty bleedingly obvious even to me who hasn't seen alot of the insides of rotaries before.
The rear rotor has suffered an apex seal failure which supports the 2 low bounces of the needle when compresison tested. It has severly damaged the housing with deep scoring to the area just after the exhaust port and leading up to the trailing spark plug area. So I'm pretty clear I need a new housing but am a little unsure what to look for to determine if the rotor itself will need replacing as well.
Upon disassembly it also became clear that I will need to replace my oil pump chain as mine had the same amount of slack (1/2") as Bruce's on the video.
Enjoy the pics below. I will keep you guys updated as I get replacement parts and my rebuild kit which will consist of OEM seals & springs.
Right now I've got a lot of cleaning and checking to do to see if any other parts need replacing..............stay tuned!
The verdict is pretty bleedingly obvious even to me who hasn't seen alot of the insides of rotaries before.
The rear rotor has suffered an apex seal failure which supports the 2 low bounces of the needle when compresison tested. It has severly damaged the housing with deep scoring to the area just after the exhaust port and leading up to the trailing spark plug area. So I'm pretty clear I need a new housing but am a little unsure what to look for to determine if the rotor itself will need replacing as well.
Upon disassembly it also became clear that I will need to replace my oil pump chain as mine had the same amount of slack (1/2") as Bruce's on the video.
Enjoy the pics below. I will keep you guys updated as I get replacement parts and my rebuild kit which will consist of OEM seals & springs.
Right now I've got a lot of cleaning and checking to do to see if any other parts need replacing..............stay tuned!
12-11-06, 11:26 AM
#18
Good stuff dude, looking very good.
As far as the rotor goes for the rear - inspect it as per the FSM available on fd3s.net. If there are no dents, scores, scratches etc where they shouldnt be and the gaps spec up with new parts in, its ok to use.
I.e - clean it, inspect it for scratches etc. If thats good then dry build the rotor (as per bruces video) and get your feeler gauge out. Check your apex seal gaps (this is most imporatant with an apex seal failure) and check your side seal gaps, side seal end float, oil control ring dimensions, etc etc.
Pretty much if it looks ok and measures up, it is okay. However, im 99% sure it isnt im afraid. When you lose an apex seal, it pretty much fubars at least one apex seal groove and the trailing face of the rotor.
If your not sure, post a load of pictures of it and you can have our opinions!
Good luck, and fair play for getting stuck in - its a daunting task but not that difficult if you are meticulous, and once your boosting along at 150 on your home built motor youll **** your pants with pride :o)
P.s - regarding the rats nest, i made the mistake of pulling all the pipes off on my first rebuild. Now i just cut the crap out of the pipes until i can pull the bugger out withou having to actually remove any pipes. Makes it muh easier, getting the rats nest out of the car and THEN removing all the crappy brittle pipes.
Good luck!
As far as the rotor goes for the rear - inspect it as per the FSM available on fd3s.net. If there are no dents, scores, scratches etc where they shouldnt be and the gaps spec up with new parts in, its ok to use.
I.e - clean it, inspect it for scratches etc. If thats good then dry build the rotor (as per bruces video) and get your feeler gauge out. Check your apex seal gaps (this is most imporatant with an apex seal failure) and check your side seal gaps, side seal end float, oil control ring dimensions, etc etc.
Pretty much if it looks ok and measures up, it is okay. However, im 99% sure it isnt im afraid. When you lose an apex seal, it pretty much fubars at least one apex seal groove and the trailing face of the rotor.
If your not sure, post a load of pictures of it and you can have our opinions!
Good luck, and fair play for getting stuck in - its a daunting task but not that difficult if you are meticulous, and once your boosting along at 150 on your home built motor youll **** your pants with pride :o)
P.s - regarding the rats nest, i made the mistake of pulling all the pipes off on my first rebuild. Now i just cut the crap out of the pipes until i can pull the bugger out withou having to actually remove any pipes. Makes it muh easier, getting the rats nest out of the car and THEN removing all the crappy brittle pipes.
Good luck!
12-11-06, 01:31 PM
#20
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Have you ever driven a non-seq FD before? I agree that the rat's nest/solenoids/check valves makes the seq setup pretty daunting to reinstall on the car, but the difference between non-seq and seq in the 3000 to 4000 rpm range is pretty pronounced. You definitely lose a lot of boost response in that range, making the car less fun to drive in my opinion.
Hy Rich, you're right. I have never driven a non seq RX7 but lot's of other high power turbo cars (piston engine). either with large or small single turbo's.
I drove my old FD for the last 2.5 years with the seq turbo's working perfectly and it was great fun. Though from time to time it was also annoying that the car would always break out when just tapping the throttle.
Some may find it fun (those who like to burnout or show of in the city for the girls)
Where I live you are either in the city or on the highway. Before I decided to go non seq I tried to watch my rev limiter a lot and I noticed how little time the engine was spending below 3000 rpm.
True, the response will be different, even at this rpm level but a lighter flywheel can compensate for some part here.
I know this has been discussed before and this thread is not the place to argue about this again. I totally understand your point and respect that.
But for those people who are rebuilding, having trouble with the vac ssytem, non seq sure is an option and the new boost pattern doesn't need to be a disadvantage. Also fuel consumpton will benefit (we're talking RX7 here
) from this.Greetz
Neal
12-13-06, 04:52 PM
#22
thanks for the comments guys.
I will be persisting with the sequential setup on the car once rebuilt as the class I will be competing in requires the standard setup to be retained. Also, I want the maximum torque for hillclimbing and turbo lag needs to be kept to a minimum, especially with a standard gearbox and non-close ratio setup or lower diff ratio. I might consider things differently if I was going to drive the car on the street but my car has been imported for RACING USE ONLY and can never be registered in Australia.
Bobfish, thanks for the advise. I will post some pictures of the rear rotor shortly to get all your expert opinions but I'm pretty sure it is going to become a nice clock!!!!
Hey, by the way you guys, I keep getting comments about my Avatar.......would people like me to post a high res version?
I will be persisting with the sequential setup on the car once rebuilt as the class I will be competing in requires the standard setup to be retained. Also, I want the maximum torque for hillclimbing and turbo lag needs to be kept to a minimum, especially with a standard gearbox and non-close ratio setup or lower diff ratio. I might consider things differently if I was going to drive the car on the street but my car has been imported for RACING USE ONLY and can never be registered in Australia.
Bobfish, thanks for the advise. I will post some pictures of the rear rotor shortly to get all your expert opinions but I'm pretty sure it is going to become a nice clock!!!!
Hey, by the way you guys, I keep getting comments about my Avatar.......would people like me to post a high res version?
12-13-06, 05:32 PM
#23
Eye In The Sky
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Three questions:
(1) What AFR were you running to have that much carbon build up?
(2) Even the cooling pasages are dirty! Don't you use distilled water?
(3) And after all these years, why didn't it have a metal intake gasket?
(1) What AFR were you running to have that much carbon build up?
(2) Even the cooling pasages are dirty! Don't you use distilled water?
(3) And after all these years, why didn't it have a metal intake gasket?
12-13-06, 08:47 PM
#24
Three Answers:
1. I have no idea about what AFR the car was running. I have never driven it. I took ownership of it when it landed from Japan here in Australia with 133,000 kms on the clock and a blown engine that I knew before I bought it. Car is completely standard and original except I have since fitted a boost gauge, 3 inch mandrel exhaust from the dump pipe and an Apexi intake kit. I will be removing a fair bit of the pollution gear including air pump as I have no smog requirements to meet on the track! :-)
2. See above, I have only just purchased the car! Never driven it! Yes I will be using distilled water!
3. I have no idea, I new to the whole FD scene! Go easy on me mate! :-)
1. I have no idea about what AFR the car was running. I have never driven it. I took ownership of it when it landed from Japan here in Australia with 133,000 kms on the clock and a blown engine that I knew before I bought it. Car is completely standard and original except I have since fitted a boost gauge, 3 inch mandrel exhaust from the dump pipe and an Apexi intake kit. I will be removing a fair bit of the pollution gear including air pump as I have no smog requirements to meet on the track! :-)
2. See above, I have only just purchased the car! Never driven it! Yes I will be using distilled water!
3. I have no idea, I new to the whole FD scene! Go easy on me mate! :-)
12-13-06, 11:56 PM
#25
OK Gurus here's some better pictures of my broken bits:
You might not be able to tell but the corner seal near is stuck in as well but no visible damage to the intermediate housing.......
I'm cleaning these bits at the moment and then taking them to a local rotary specialist : http://www.rxengineering.com who is going to give me the full story.........
You might not be able to tell but the corner seal near is stuck in as well but no visible damage to the intermediate housing.......
I'm cleaning these bits at the moment and then taking them to a local rotary specialist : http://www.rxengineering.com who is going to give me the full story.........