Is running NON-INTERCOOLED an option ?
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 930
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From: Slidell, LA
Eric, one approach for water would be to go to http://not2fast.com/ and calculate how much water that you need pre-compressor to keep your turbo output temp below 212ºF. That would be the minimum amount of water needed.
Injecting methanol around the scroll output area would give the most time for evaporative cooling but having an even distribution from the angle you are using may be difficult. Plus this would require a second pump system.
If you use your E-85 idea in the four barrel assembly this should give good fuel distribution to both rotors. Dual AFR sensors would confirm this.
My 2¢,
Barry
Injecting methanol around the scroll output area would give the most time for evaporative cooling but having an even distribution from the angle you are using may be difficult. Plus this would require a second pump system.
If you use your E-85 idea in the four barrel assembly this should give good fuel distribution to both rotors. Dual AFR sensors would confirm this.
My 2¢,
Barry
BMW and a few others used to have the meth nozzles in the plenum pointing at the air flow (ie opposite airflow) they did this because after extensive testing they found that it cooled the whole plenum down noticeably better as well as actually atomized better. These were meth only cars though, not auxiliary injected cars. Running a IC is always going to perform better than no IC. But yes you can run no IC and just do chemical intercooling. I'm a water guy for street, meth guy for race.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Saint Louis / Illinois
No real cost factor just can't beat water for det suppression and for most street cars the owner base needs to be a bit dummy proof. Tune the car add a small amount of water and go. For power meth is the way to go. But you will need to tune for it. I'm not very big on tuning for water. Yes you can do it and do it well. I just feel if your actually out there looking for power, get setup properly and run the alcohol. You will not beat it's cooling properties. Again I'm a street=water power/track=alcohol guy.
~S~
~S~
Last edited by Zero R; Jul 9, 2008 at 12:40 PM.
A little water for saftey and a bit of cooling suits my needs. Plus, ease. I can grab a big bottle of wate at the gas station when I fill up and top up the tank. Although I think the local gas station suspects I've got a big leak in my rad
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,140
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From: Saint Louis / Illinois
No real cost factor just can't beat water for det suppression and for most street cars the owner base needs to be a bit dummy proof. Tune the car add a small amount of water and go. For power meth is the way to go. But you will need to tune for it. I'm not very big on tuning for water. Yes you can do it and do it well. I just feel if your actually out there looking for power, get setup properly and run the alcohol. You will not beat it's cooling properties. Again I'm a street=water power/track=alcohol guy.
~S~
~S~
I'm not looking for something to add without tuning. I had planned on getting the car tuned with it anyhow. I'm just trying trying to figure out which is easier/better.
Alright, so methanol makes more power. Do you have any examples ? Like, are we talking 10 hp here ?
I'm not looking for something to add without tuning. I had planned on getting the car tuned with it anyhow. I'm just trying trying to figure out which is easier/better.
I'm not looking for something to add without tuning. I had planned on getting the car tuned with it anyhow. I'm just trying trying to figure out which is easier/better.
My plan is us to use pre turbo WI, and AI JUST for the chemical cooling properties (no intercooler here). FJO systems lets you run their system by a % IDC.
What injection system will you be using?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,140
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From: Saint Louis / Illinois
I like turning ***** more than understanding computers
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,140
Likes: 0
From: Saint Louis / Illinois
I think you could expect to see more like 50Hp from adding AI, especially methanol. I dont know about the difference in HP between water and meth, but from my experiment, 100% meth did much more than 100% water. However, I like the 50/50 or 40/60 (either way) mix. Get the benifits of both...
My system is controlled through MoTeC. It's quite simple right now. The pump turns on at X amount of boost. It's all or nothing. I imagine adding varied spray would be pretty easy. I would just need some type of pulsing soliniod that the MoTeC would control.
My system is controlled through MoTeC. It's quite simple right now. The pump turns on at X amount of boost. It's all or nothing. I imagine adding varied spray would be pretty easy. I would just need some type of pulsing soliniod that the MoTeC would control.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,140
Likes: 0
From: Saint Louis / Illinois
I think you could expect to see more like 50Hp from adding AI, especially methanol. I dont know about the difference in HP between water and meth, but from my experiment, 100% meth did much more than 100% water. However, I like the 50/50 or 40/60 (either way) mix. Get the benifits of both...
My system is controlled through MoTeC. It's quite simple right now. The pump turns on at X amount of boost. It's all or nothing. I imagine adding varied spray would be pretty easy. I would just need some type of pulsing soliniod that the MoTeC would control.
My system is controlled through MoTeC. It's quite simple right now. The pump turns on at X amount of boost. It's all or nothing. I imagine adding varied spray would be pretty easy. I would just need some type of pulsing soliniod that the MoTeC would control.
Supply power and ground to control unit.
Run vac line to control unit.
Run power wire from control unit to pump.
Adjust **** 1 for turn on PSI, adjust **** 2 for full pressure PSI (control unit will ramp up pressure between the two PSI points)
hook pump/tank/nozzle up and go do burnouts.
Run vac line to control unit.
Run power wire from control unit to pump.
Adjust **** 1 for turn on PSI, adjust **** 2 for full pressure PSI (control unit will ramp up pressure between the two PSI points)
hook pump/tank/nozzle up and go do burnouts.
Your putting my two statements together. I prefer methonal as the ONLY fuel source not as a power adder. If I'm going to have aux inj. It's water only for me. Make more sense? IMO you have zero need for aux inj. if your planning on running E85. It being 85 percent alcohol already it does the work for you
Your going to want to look at different oils for premix though. ~S~
Here are the pictures of the pretty much finalized radiator/ducting/intake and water injection setup. Click them for larger view.
Here is the Back of the radiator with the newly made top panel. I have replaced one of the fan motors as well.
Front shot of the radiator panel
A/C Condenssor w/ air filter and front underpanel, see the AL panel behind to help seal things
This is the other side, toward the front of the car from my relocated oil filter. The A/C drier was mounted lower so that we could completely seal this area.
This is the side with the turbo and how the intake tube seals fairly well with the panel. Then just a couple of misc. shots below
Here is the Back of the radiator with the newly made top panel. I have replaced one of the fan motors as well.
Front shot of the radiator panel
A/C Condenssor w/ air filter and front underpanel, see the AL panel behind to help seal things
This is the other side, toward the front of the car from my relocated oil filter. The A/C drier was mounted lower so that we could completely seal this area.
This is the side with the turbo and how the intake tube seals fairly well with the panel. Then just a couple of misc. shots below
Darkside FD
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,175
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From: AZ
Yeah...I think I do. Send me an email to this address: cozmokraemer@gmail.com and I will send them to you.
Gasoline can make more power per unit volume than methanol... but if you take volume out of the equation, like they do with meth specific setups, the meth seems to work better. Those seem to be race only though, because of the obscene fuel consumption. I think gasoline with a 50/50 mix is the way to go for the street. I might be back in the AI game here in a little bit with an FI BMW engine, fooling around with an HFS-6 from aquamist. We will see how things go.
Gasoline can make more power per unit volume than methanol... but if you take volume out of the equation, like they do with meth specific setups, the meth seems to work better. Those seem to be race only though, because of the obscene fuel consumption. I think gasoline with a 50/50 mix is the way to go for the street. I might be back in the AI game here in a little bit with an FI BMW engine, fooling around with an HFS-6 from aquamist. We will see how things go.
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trickster
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
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Jul 1, 2023 04:40 PM
ai, alchohol, car, difference, drag, dyno, injection, intercooled, intercooler, ls1, nonintercooled, precompressor, rotary, turbo, vtec
