Is that the reason why some have argued the point that water yields more of its benefit as an injectant in the combustion chamber itself (where it'll hit that 100*C prize) rather than in the intake charge?

B

 

Bingo! Or pre-turbo given the outlet air is reaching the magical 100*c.
-J

 

So water cools better than methanol but can you run over 18psi+ on water injection compare to methanol on pump gas?

 

Reread post above yours... Water can't make BTUs under 100*c but it expands at a rate of 1600 times the volume of liquid water (@ atmospheric pressure) above that point (when it turns into steam 100*c+). Methanol can't match that no matter what the temp is. So all in all I would say the best thing to do is use both of them in stages that are armed by IAT (given you're temps get that high). This is why pre-turbo WATER injection on a turbo that is running "hi" boost (out of it's efficiency range (say above 100*c) work sooo well. It is changing the compressor map do to making it more efficient @ a higher boost level
-J

 

been watching this (go-around for about a year) gorilla is getting close! water is by far the way to go for extreme performance. but i still think,as i said a yr ago, that you need much higher injection pressuresof the the water. as close to the chamber as possible,then as combustion starts to take place, the expansion rate of water could reach 1700 times its liquid volume, that is what will push the rotor around, not the fuel,the fuel will be the catylist to make the super heated steam. it is all to simple, try not to complcate things. the technology for the concept is over 100yrs old, but the russians have been using the tech for about 50 yrs, and china is really getting into it as we speak! anyway have fun with your projects.

DAH!! a steam engine. RON

 

Choo Choo!

 

all aboard

 

Chugga Chugga Chugga Chugga Choo Choo!!

 

I think i can........

 

Cozmo - remember me? in Scotsdale with the BB RX7 and the minivan? I moved to Northern CA (San Jose) and I never have to worry about running hot any more. My IC temp at 80mph with outside air of 75F shows 34C, under boost it's 45C. Water temp doesn't go above 105C now. And I don't need the AC, which never worked anyway.

 

Of course I remember you. How do you like San Jose?

I don't see above 85C coolant temps anymore (with my new ducting), we will see in the summer, but that has been a long road...My a/c works great when it has freon in it! And of course my intake temps are all over this thread.

 

Pixs!

 

cozom,

Aftre following this thread for a while and talking to you. I am totally convinced the IC causes more heat problems than it solves.

 

If you are totally convinced that definately says something!

Elliot at Turblown convinced me to make the change after trying countless initiatives to cool the engine, we came to this setup. The way my car is setup is 99% of the reason why it works. As I have said ealier in the thread, it wasn't cheap...and I am sure Elliot would charge more to do it again. I am over $2000 into this experiment if you count the water injection system. SO I could have a pretty nice intercooler setup, but in my opinion, even the nicest intercoolers don't solve the problem. They just make the problem less severe...but it is still there.

The proof will be in the pudding. I am on the dyno after I get paid this week, and I will log that. Sustained, boosted, load will tell the ultimate tale as to what we can do with timing and fuel. With all my ignition and electrical issues out of the way I hope to make some REAL progress on this front.

Then I will have a log of a track day out at PIR and we will see how it performs there. If it is up to the task, that should be enough proof for all, and this thread will then have some pretty strong conclusions.

That will be soon!

I will post pics as soon as I can.

 

Will you be running 100% methanol?

 

Definately not 100%...probably not even 50%. I really want a nonflamable mixture. I might keep 25% of the methanol in there for freeze protection, but that isn't a big concern here in Phoenix, but you you never know if you drive somewhere outside the valley.

I would ideally run 100% water...that is what I am going to tune with first.

 

Hey, I hear you know RICE?

The man is a god of water injection ! just look at the video's of WI cars on his web page

 

Pete is that you in disguise trying to plug your own self or is this a rice groupy, J/K

 

My name if Patrick Hernandez

RICE IS GOD

 

Theres Rice Racing Kit, its much cheaper and also proven (on intercooled cars); however you have been the first (that I know of) in this part of the world, to use a non intercooled setup on pump gas

 

He has an improved version. Still the proven RICE design & custom specification, but more variable to suit big ranges of application. Pure WI and no other charge cooler is not a problem, what this man knows about WI and his results are amazing, he is GOD of this stuff A few of the boys here can vouch for that

 

fixed.

I used that same IC with WI and it still had issues...I now run an IC similar to howard coleman's and have far better results. I'm not finished tuning but should have results by the years end.

cozmo sorry to hear about the tough times...makes me rethink my "budget" street tuning.

 

It wasn't the water injection kit that cost the money (well it cost a pretty penny but wasn't the largest portion of cost) it was the fabrication to move and duct the radiator, so that I had a true cold air induction setup while maintaining both oil coolers. Pictures will tell the story, so I will post tonight.

I PROMISE...

 

Take of RICE site

http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv

http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv

http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv

Enjoy

Patrick

 

Fun videos. So, it looks like you set those cars up with water injection before the turbo ? Do you set them all up l ike that ? Better results like that ?

Which nozzles do you use ?