Is running NON-INTERCOOLED an option ?
11-27-07, 08:33 PM
#126
BDC Motorsports
Aleks, you are right that water is better. The Latent Heat of Vaporization for ethanol is 855 J/g, for methanol; nine hundred something J/g (as best as I remember), but water absorbs 2272 J/g, almost 2½ times as much. The catch is that it has to hit 100Cº to collect the prize.
Barry
Barry
B
11-29-07, 08:57 AM
#128
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Methanol boiling point is 64.7degrees C
water 100 degrees C
I can see between 65 - 99 degrees C methanol could be cooling better job due to the fact that energy is being used to convert liquid into vapor.
So temperatures below 64 degrees C water should still be doing a better job?
The only way I can see methanol cooling better is when its used in large volumes; as fuel. But thats not we are talking about here. If you are talking about using water injection to replace your intercooler then straight water would have to do a better job.
water 100 degrees C
I can see between 65 - 99 degrees C methanol could be cooling better job due to the fact that energy is being used to convert liquid into vapor.
So temperatures below 64 degrees C water should still be doing a better job?
The only way I can see methanol cooling better is when its used in large volumes; as fuel. But thats not we are talking about here. If you are talking about using water injection to replace your intercooler then straight water would have to do a better job.
11-29-07, 06:39 PM
#129
-J
11-30-07, 07:39 PM
#130
Rotary Enthusiast
peter and howard, you guys are somthing else
been watching this (go-around for about a year) gorilla is getting close! water is by far the way to go for extreme performance. but i still think,as i said a yr ago, that you need much higher injection pressuresof the the water. as close to the chamber as possible,then as combustion starts to take place, the expansion rate of water could reach 1700 times its liquid volume, that is what will push the rotor around, not the fuel,the fuel will be the catylist to make the super heated steam. it is all to simple, try not to complcate things. the technology for the concept is over 100yrs old, but the russians have been using the tech for about 50 yrs, and china is really getting into it as we speak! anyway have fun with your projects.
DAH!! a steam engine. RON
DAH!! a steam engine. RON
12-05-07, 12:55 AM
#135
in CA tonight... I saw 75-80C oil temps 86C coolant temps and 43C IAT. In boosting to 7PSI i never saw more than 50C IAT without water injection. With the injection these temperatureswent down to 20C and below. Amazing what you people in the non-HELL climates see for temps.
12-05-07, 01:15 AM
#136
Darkside FD
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Of course I remember you. How do you like San Jose?
I don't see above 85C coolant temps anymore (with my new ducting), we will see in the summer, but that has been a long road...My a/c works great when it has freon in it! And of course my intake temps are all over this thread.
I don't see above 85C coolant temps anymore (with my new ducting), we will see in the summer, but that has been a long road...My a/c works great when it has freon in it! And of course my intake temps are all over this thread.
12-05-07, 11:22 AM
#139
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If you are totally convinced that definately says something!
Elliot at Turblown convinced me to make the change after trying countless initiatives to cool the engine, we came to this setup. The way my car is setup is 99% of the reason why it works. As I have said ealier in the thread, it wasn't cheap...and I am sure Elliot would charge more to do it again. I am over $2000 into this experiment if you count the water injection system. SO I could have a pretty nice intercooler setup, but in my opinion, even the nicest intercoolers don't solve the problem. They just make the problem less severe...but it is still there.
The proof will be in the pudding. I am on the dyno after I get paid this week, and I will log that. Sustained, boosted, load will tell the ultimate tale as to what we can do with timing and fuel. With all my ignition and electrical issues out of the way I hope to make some REAL progress on this front.
Then I will have a log of a track day out at PIR and we will see how it performs there. If it is up to the task, that should be enough proof for all, and this thread will then have some pretty strong conclusions.
That will be soon!
I will post pics as soon as I can.
Elliot at Turblown convinced me to make the change after trying countless initiatives to cool the engine, we came to this setup. The way my car is setup is 99% of the reason why it works. As I have said ealier in the thread, it wasn't cheap...and I am sure Elliot would charge more to do it again. I am over $2000 into this experiment if you count the water injection system. SO I could have a pretty nice intercooler setup, but in my opinion, even the nicest intercoolers don't solve the problem. They just make the problem less severe...but it is still there.
The proof will be in the pudding. I am on the dyno after I get paid this week, and I will log that. Sustained, boosted, load will tell the ultimate tale as to what we can do with timing and fuel. With all my ignition and electrical issues out of the way I hope to make some REAL progress on this front.
Then I will have a log of a track day out at PIR and we will see how it performs there. If it is up to the task, that should be enough proof for all, and this thread will then have some pretty strong conclusions.
That will be soon!
I will post pics as soon as I can.
12-05-07, 12:06 PM
#141
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Definately not 100%...probably not even 50%. I really want a nonflamable mixture. I might keep 25% of the methanol in there for freeze protection, but that isn't a big concern here in Phoenix, but you you never know if you drive somewhere outside the valley.
I would ideally run 100% water...that is what I am going to tune with first.
I would ideally run 100% water...that is what I am going to tune with first.
12-05-07, 11:12 PM
#142
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i am running pre-turbo water injection... our dyno won't be installed for another couple of weeks so data will be held off until then, but i will say this.. i am more than happy i removed my 4" thick fmic and went back to a stock TII tmic but the goal is to run no i/c at all 
setup:
bridgeported TII block
9.7:1 rotors
haltech e6k
550/1600 combo
MP T70 1.00 q-trim 3.5" outlet
4" dp and exhaust
PRE-TURBO WI only. making use of a special nozzle from the aussies, no pump
all my buddies run water/meth with amaaaazing success! i will see how pure water does and probably even try out meth as well just to see what is best in my situation.
this thread is fuggin fantastic!
setup:
bridgeported TII block
9.7:1 rotors
haltech e6k
550/1600 combo
MP T70 1.00 q-trim 3.5" outlet
4" dp and exhaust
PRE-TURBO WI only. making use of a special nozzle from the aussies, no pump
all my buddies run water/meth with amaaaazing success! i will see how pure water does and probably even try out meth as well just to see what is best in my situation.
this thread is fuggin fantastic!
The man is a god of water injection ! just look at the video's of WI cars on his web page
12-05-07, 11:25 PM
#143
InsaneRotaries.com
J/K
12-05-07, 11:58 PM
#144
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12-06-07, 08:26 AM
#146
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A few of the boys here can vouch for that 
12-06-07, 09:35 AM
#147
development
I used that same IC with WI and it still had issues...I now run an IC similar to howard coleman's and have far better results. I'm not finished tuning but should have results by the years end.
cozmo sorry to hear about the tough times...makes me rethink my "budget" street tuning.
12-06-07, 06:59 PM
#148
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I PROMISE...
12-06-07, 07:32 PM
#149
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It wasn't the water injection kit that cost the money (well it cost a pretty penny but wasn't the largest portion of cost) it was the fabrication to move and duct the radiator, so that I had a true cold air induction setup while maintaining both oil coolers. Pictures will tell the story, so I will post tonight.
I PROMISE...
I PROMISE...
Take of RICE site
http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv
http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv
http://www.riceracing.com.au/Videos/...-injection.wmv
Enjoy
Patrick
12-06-07, 07:43 PM
#150
*** Bless The USA
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Which nozzles do you use ?
Last edited by Viking War Hammer; 12-06-07 at 07:50 PM.