Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

got a single run in today just before the rain arrived.

did 19.8 psi on pump knock between 5 and 1

details details.

16.61------18.75-------19.82--------19.58--------18.67--------18.32 psi

1252------1167--------1135--------1197---------1246-----------1286 egt preturbo F

10----------9.2-----------9.1-------------9.2--------9.3--------------9.1 AFR

4.0------------2.3--------5.0-------------1.5--------1.0--------------1.0 Power FC knock

58.3-----------59.3------59.3-----------58.8------55.4------------59.3 Fuel Press

49.2----------70.3-------77--------------86.3-----86--------------86.9 Duty C 850/1600

21 C----------------------------------------------------------------------air temp pre meth

15 degrees--------------------------------------------------------------Lead spark- 11 split


yes i am rich, but hey, it's the first run ever for me above about 16.5 psi.
now that i have my boost straightened out it is time to lean it and raise the egt to 1400 minimum. lean it out and lean on it.

once the rain goes away.

howard coleman

dubulup

what rpm are you hitting 19psi by?

what are ambient temps right now in Wisconsin?

your AIT's are fantastic.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i was in third and really didn't hammer it at all... i am sure i could hit 19 lots earlier. 5400.

it was 57 degrees in Packerland when i made the run.

howard coleman

BDC

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=50682&page=3

My results of the day.

B

ronbros3

FD 4 yrs. ago install SMC W/A system bought from a buick guy, any time I turn it on lose power! so one night racin this Mustang he got me, so turned off W/A, much faster, beatem and blew motor at same time. howcum you guys didnt have info then? HEY RICE about the 20B turbo marine power, 2 things you got to cool #1 engine, #2 aftercooler system, both would have a never ending OCEAN to cool them, I doubt if you can raise the Ocean temp much!! on an automobile cooling for extended time, heat soak with turbo, can be a problem.. now about that AUDI 24hrs. what kind of fuel tank did they have 1000 gals. must have been heavy! OH! they took time out to fuel it and cool it. I would like to hear about petrol gasoline engine that can take 30 psi boost for 24 hrs. straight. and still be able to fit race vehicle. NOW! a DIESEL engine can do that type of stuff!! as AUDI is showing the world of sports cars, Diesel runs much cooler combustion temps. gotta go suppers on the table ,, by the way great talking to you guys, and Howard keep after your PASSIONS.

PDViper77

iTrader: (9)

Howard, that is great keep posting your results. I will be redoing my alky setup this spring when I get home from school. Hopefully you guys will hve everythingn figured out by then.
Good Luck,
Phil

sdminus

Im not sure where you are shooting with this post.... Anybody who expects to bolt on WI or AI and get horse power in a box has really not payed attention in class. Would you just by a bigger turbo with out having it tuned or change injectors ??

As for the audi in the 24 hrs and the tank ?????? water would be the best in cylinder coolant for this application ie it cools better , you need less of it, Its proven to aid performance and longivity.

I think you should stick a diesel engine into your rex.

Scott

sdminus

Howard i see the egts are still quite low. At the moment you are adding quite a lot of incylinder cooling and i am wondering if you will have to take it back a long way.

Scott

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

we all decide whom we want to listen too. i primarily listen to Julio for alcohol related items and Jose Le Duc for rotary tuning ( 7.6 at 180 on meth 2 rotor). Jose says w my mix of pump and meth 1400 should be my conservative target. 1500-1550 for max power but still pretty safe. so i am shooting for 1400 initially.

my dataloglab showed 421 rwhp at 6004 rpm at 9.4 AFR, 17 psi and 1197 F preturbo. it really was a crappy run as it started late and either the wastegate cycled around 5500 or i lifted..... though the TPS says i didn't. i also was going up a fairly steep hill so it certainly would have read more if i was on the flat. julio says i should be tuning for mid tens and eventually low 11s.

howard coleman

SPOautos

Howard, any idea why your fuel pressure was down on that last section of data? The boost appears to be failry constant but your fuel pressure was down and your EGT's were up a little as compared to the 2 prior colums of data. Just thought I'd mention it incase you havent noticed.

Stephen

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i have a Dataloglab dynosheet (hp & tq) that i will post when Scott explains how to transport the window... it shows a choppy top which appears to be perhaps a brief cycle in the wastegates. my tps shows foot on the floor but the data shows a dip in the top area before i lifted at around 6200. (it was the end of a hill). this was new boost territory for my avcr so maybe it was in a learning process.

i always appreciate input. 'good to hear from you stephen,

howard coleman

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

scott,

thanks for your help in transporting my Data-lab-log dyno sheet. believe it or not this is my first attachment in 1200 posts.

smoothing is on the 2 scale. temp/hum correction was .992. car total weight 2950. frontal area 19.26 sq ft and .3 drag coeff.

so you can see in detail what happened up top on the run. i do think it was the boost controller in new boost territory and it opened and closed around 18-19. the secondary injector backed off and the on though the TPS says my foot was on the floor. obviously i am rich (though no misfires or knock) and it took the wind out of the top part of the run. i was also going up a hill during the entire run.

i took another 5% out of the fuel at about 16 psi and up and was going to do a run today but i have had a voltage leak noise in one of my two amps and i just decided i should deal with it. i am going to carefully check the amps for any wiring/external leakage. if i don't find any i will remove the faulty amp and send it in for service. since it will take a week i think i will wire the one amp to the two leading coils and we will just see if we really needed the second amp.


howard coleman

crispeed

You're certainly listening to one of the gurus there.

sdminus

I should think you coud feal the car bucking at high end !

What did the wategate cycle box show during all of the high end ?

I think things would look a touch more uniform if you started the pull at 2500 rpm ( but you probobly realise that )

Scott

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i think i can now understand what happened on my last run...

i had been looking at the TPS and VTA1 numbers at the one decimal point scale. i looked a little more closely using 2 and 3 decimals and found that there was a small amount of throttle lift. i remember seeing the boost gauge at what looked like 20 psi out of the corner of my eye (it is left on the A pillar and i am generally looking right at the lapstop on the pass seat). my brain was sending me a cautionary signal since it was my first trip to 20 psi as to whether the wastegate would do it's job and i must have just eased the pressure on the pedal. i see it in the secondary injector cycling down and back up as well as PIM.

of course you can see around 5200 the motor stopped it's acceleration rate due to being really rich. it will be interesting to see where i land lamba-wise. i'd rather be in a leaning phase w the motor intact than going the other way from too lean.

i pulled the various things out of my car to give my electronics a careful look to find out which amp was making the electronic leakage sounds and it appears they both are and at the exact same time. probably not the amps, probably my wiring. i am going deeper into my wiring today for the answer. so far it seems that the spark has not been effected.

generally i have found it always advantageous to take things apart. often you learn something and have the opportunity to make an improvement as you reassemble it.


howard coleman

BDC

Last run for today. 71/29 ratio at 15+psi of 93octane to Sunoco Racing Alcohol (methanol). Stock top mounted intercooler (Turbo II) with 60-1 HIFI and half-bridgeport motor:






Alcohol!

B

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

after taking the seats, tunnel plastic and the rear compartments plastic (fd= plastic) out i took a good look at my wiring and finally found that by pressing on the carpet located just below the driver's knee i could trigger the leak sounds at the 2 amps. bingo. the four output to coil wires run thru the area and there are 4 splices. i just have to dive in there and find the leak. then it is back on the road.

i am out of town sat/sun so it will be a monday deal.

can't wait to get some heat in the egts. the 64 dollar question is what's it going to take boost-wise, ignition-wise and afr-wise before i start seeing knock????????

suspicion..... alot.

stay tuned.

howard coleman

RICE RACING

I'd be interested to see if your cars car run at 0.89 Lambda (13.1:1 for petrol scale) @ WOT and 7500rpm AND 23 ~ 28 psi??? Or maximum power setting, or do you always have to run it really rich to make it safe ?

^ ANY data on this or are they all running very heavy on fuel to live?

dubulup

Your motor and turbo seem quite happy and pretty peppy!

what is your fuel set-up(very low DC% at good boost)? and WTF is up with your TPS reading, you were WOT...right?

how much air do you think you are moving at that psi...with that motor? eff. island?

A neat thing I've been logging with Haltech is AFR with a wideband voltage via the O2 feedback...makes tuning a snap, as you just have to know the voltage vs lambda then adjust the cell (bar/range) accordingly. I find it pretty accurate in logging response as well.

BDC

I wasn't in it full throttle because I was in 4th gear getting just over 100mph, doing all this by myself.

Also, the DC% is because I'm running a nearly 70/30 ratio of fuel to methanol in those loads.

B

BDC

Copied from my blog over on TeamFC3S:

Hit 20psi last night. Was pretty easy seeing as how the boost controller was basically already there from earlier in the afternoon. I took my buddy Mario out for a ride and had him watch the EGT's. No change; still 1300*F. AFR's high 10's:1. However, we both heard the motor misfire once fairly hard. It knocked and I'm not sure why. The only thing I can come up with is the 5yr old Jacobs Race Wires I've got. I purchased them in summer of '01, just around the time when I quit racing the car. I hadn't done it since I'd purchased those wires and I've never changed them. Basically, this past week was the first time to really flog the car hard so I've got no idea whether or not these plug wires are even any good. They do put off a hell of alot of noise (the kind of noise that makes the car next to you's radio get fuzzy) so there's no telling. I've been having odd misfiring at varying RPM's for awhile now, especially down low while cruising (I don't flog the car much so it mainly sees below 3500rpm), so perhaps the issue is the plug wires. I also have them tied very closely to one another to avoid the 7 or so stainless-steel braided lines on the driver's side of the engine bay. Perhaps they're crossfiring. I plan on either purchasing a set of Magnecor wires or a set of NGK stock ones very soon. Until then, I'm not getting on this thing until it's for certain solved.

Here's the Alky40 Datalog. Check out those IAT's!






B

Xcentric

I hit just under 30psi on 91 octane plus 50/50 water and methanol. It was a spike
and not a sustained pull. I'm not going to try it until next year[30 psi pull]. Even
then I will add a few gallons of c16 on a full tank so I have 93 or 94 octane base.
I run 11.5 race plugs all the time and they never load up b/c of the cleaning
the h2o provides- I love w+m injection!

Xcentric

oops' spoke too soon- my blitz says i was at 1.71bar, maybe only 25psi- sorry but still
we're getting there.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i think i need something to calm me down.

last thursday i did my first higher boost (targeting 1.4 bar 20 psi) run w alcohol. it ended up that the 3rd gear part was up a hill. medium grade i'd guess. i use the DataLabLog (DLL) as a hp/tq measurement device. i consider it accurate as i backed up some DLL logs on the dyno last year. it does get part of it's data from speed and time. going up a hill stretches both. even considering i was going up hill the DLL posted 421 rwhp and 378 ft pounds of torque and i bailed out of the run w a slight lift at 5250 and then lifted at 6000. i ran out of hill and wanted to take it easy to see if my boost controller was going to do the job.

get this... my afrs were 9.1, 9.2 from 5600 on!

the point of this post is that up til today i did think that if you mixed alcohol and pump you were looking for a lower afr. Rice finally got thru to me. i should probably be in the mid elevens with my mix, maybe even leaner. we will let the knock and egt call that tune. i was headed towards higher afrs and was just watching the knock and egts so i would have eventually gotten there, but thanks to Rice it will be a shorter trip.

i just fixed an ignition leak and should be out tuning tomorrow.

if it made 400+ at 9.1 afr what's it going to do at 11.7? w 84 pounds per minute of turbos.

now you see why i am revved up.

howard coleman

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I have been running 11.5 across the board on my Alchy injection since the beginning. Seems to be the magic number for me.