tdp1957

ok guys im new to the rx7, I have a 91 red convertable and wondering what I can do to boost power. what exactly is a aem, I asume engine moduale but what is a and where can I purchace this

Evil Aviator

Here is the Plug & Play AEM for the 3Gen. You will need the Race model with the wiring harness.
http://66.216.67.51/product.asp?0=208&1=297&3=265

AEM's web site:
http://www.aempower.com/ems.htm

1morpostr

Right now AEM only makes an EMS for the 93-95 RX-7, they haven't said if they are planning to do the earlier models or not.

You can't use a "Race" version because they are not available. If you wanted, you may be able to adapt the 93-95 over to your system, it wouldn't be any more difficult to use one of these than it would be to use the RACE version, they are pretty much the same unit anyway.

jetenginedoctor

So, is the AEM 'Race Model' still vaporware, or has it finally been released? If so, what is it priced like? Any feedback?

Frankly, I've read a lot about the AEM system on various boards, and I'm not impressed. Everyone seems to rave about it's Plug-and-Play convenience, and that it's so easy to tune. However, from the perspective of somebody who is comfortable with installing and tuning systems, I fail to see the reason for the excitement.

You guys need to understand and keep a few things in mind. Be VERY cautious with any product that claims to have Plug-and-Play compatability with your car. Be VERY-VERY cautious with any engine management system that claims to be self-tuning. No amount of gizmos and features can replace a knowlegeable operator, PERIOD.

I hate to see folks crowd around this thing or jump on the bandwagon like a bunch of sheep. It's still an unproven product, and word is that a lot of so-called AEM factory sponsored 'racers' are trashing this system and putting MoTeC or other systems back on. There was a pretty good thread on another forum discussing this subject a while back, I'll see if I can find a link to share. Excersize due-dilligence when shopping for engine control computers, and remember that in most cases, you get what you pay for.

BK

Damon1

Whatever! Obviously you haven't used one. Plug N Play by definition means plug and begin playing, not plug N forget. It needs to be tuned, obviously. I'll take the AEM over a MoTec any day, and any one who has switched from an AEM to a MoTec obviously hasn't looked what they could have done with the AEM. I have yet to actually hear of anyone doing this.

Evil Aviator

Plug N Play is terminology first made popular as used by Microsoft to describe a product which can be installed in the computer and immediately recognized by the computer without the user configuring the system. Prior to Plug N Play, although the product may hook right up to the computer, the user still had to program the computer to work with the product. So, by the Microsoft definition, the AEM EMS is not actually Plug N Play. However, there are several different trademarks for "Plug N Play" and derivatives therof, so I guess AEM can just make up whatever definition they like. Hehehe, Heath Kit could even make an EMS which requires 2-3 years to fabricate and 2 years of programming before it worked on your car, and still call it "Plug N Play".

Hehehe, nice banner waving, but anybody who knows a lot about engine management would choose the Motec M8 series in a heartbeat. However, I do agree that a simple product like the AEM would be better for a novice in most cases.

1morpostr

Would you elaborate on why you feel the M8 is the choice of knowledgeable tuners?

Evil Aviator

Rotary race teams/fabricators using Motec:
1) Downing Atlanta
2) Mandeville Auto Tech
3) Team Spencer

Actually, some race teams use the Motec M4 and M48, so the M8 series isn't always the choice.

The last time I checked, the number of top-ranked race teams at the upper-echelon of road racing who used the AEM EMS was zero. Please correct me if I missed anybody.

Damon1

That's a pretty ignorant comparison, it's kind of like saying in late 1992 that the new rx7 is junk, no one is racing it, everyone is running genII cars. AEM just came out, what race team is going to dump what they are currently using for something that was just released, and they are unfamiliar with. Hell, there are still race teams using carbuerators. THere is a good thread on Supraforums comparing the two, I would post a link, but the Supraforums is too slow right now to search it.

1morpostr

I think if you check the "Top-ranked/upper-echelon of race teams you will find very few, if any, Motec units. I've not seen any on CART, IRL or the Prototype AMLS or Grand-AM (or whatever it's call this year) cars. That category is filled with EFI Technology, Delfi, Marelli and all the Factory systems.

This is not to say Motec is a bad unit, in fact it is a very good system. I also don't think you will see an advertisement from AEM that says it is a "race" ready system. If you take a look at one you will see it is not designed to stand up to hard core racing.

Every system has its market, to beat on one and say it isn't a good system because it doesn't show up in the upper ranks of racing is a bit ridiculous.

In fact I think you will be hard pressed to find a truly bad engine management system on the market. There may not be many that fit your particular expectations or needs but that doesn't mean it doesn't fit someone else’s perfectly.

Closed mindedness and ignorance is the hardest thing to get over in this business. Peoples opinions carry a lot of weight, regardless if they know what they are talking about.

Evil Aviator

I don't think that comparison is ignorant at all. Like you said, none of the top tuners are going to dump their proven EMS for something new and unproven. That's part of my point. My statement was an answer to the question of why I feel the M8 is the choice of knowledgeable tuners. Well, it's because every knowledgeable rotary road race team that I know of uses the Motec.

I agree, except that the rotary-engine teams use Motec units, and I would imagine that some of the piston-powered cars also use Motec. Also, most of those other EMS units are not available or not affordable to the general public, unlike Motec. Besides, my original statement was intended to compare Motec to AEM, as in the statement that I responded to.
http://www.teamspencer.com/cars/index.html
http://www.downingatlanta.com/

From the AEM website:

I wouldn’t put anything in my customer’s cars that I wasn’t using in my own racecar, and I’ve made more power and gone faster—the first time out—with the AEM EMS than with any other system I’ve used...the AEM EMS delivers the best bang for the least buck!”
Rafael Estevez, Drag Race Technologies (DRT), Woodside NY

IMPORTANT:
AEM Programmable Engine Management Systems are legal in California for off-road vehicles only and should NEVER be used on public highways.

It sounds like it's intended for racing to me. Then again, I guess they decided not to produce the non-vehicle specific "Race" EMS.

Yes, but to imply that a budget EMS is superior to a Motec is also ridiculous. I happen to be a fan of the Wolf EMS, but at least I try to live in reality as much as possible.

I totally agree. As I stated earlier in the thread, I'm sure that the AEM EMS would be a good EMS for a novice, since that seems to be the intended consumer for a "plug & play" EMS. Although it is a superior EMS, I hardly think that an $8,000+ Motec M880 EMS which requires a mechanical engineering degree to install and tune is exactly the best choice for the average person.

Damon1

First, let me say this, the AEM does way more than the MoTec, just browse through the thread on Supra forums that even the National sales manager for MoTec USA was in. There is alot the AEM can do, that the MoTec can't. If something is new, does not mean it is un-proven, is the gen3 seven better than the previously available 2nd gen car, HELL YA, they simply improved on what was previously available, SAME WITH THE AEM. They took what was currently available, and made a superior unit. I have tuned both, and you can't touche the AEM with the MoTec. Saying it costs more, so it must be better is complete horse @#@!!! There are alot of cars that costs alot more than the FD, and don't touche it on the race track! What does that tell you? I think before you start making statements like well, they use it so it must be better, you might want to use both and then make those statements. I have!!!

Damon1

BTW, of course AEM states that the EMS is only for off-road use, anything that allows you to adjust the state of tune of the engine will never get a C.A.R.B. order.

Evil Aviator

Ah yes, the old EMS rhetoric. It's getting old, folks. I don't see why every new EMS on the market needs to enlist rabid supporters to try and convince the public that their product is better than Motec. Why can't the EMS manufacturers simply state the particular features of their product, rather than trying to pretend that it is better than Motec? It's not like many people can afford or tune a Motec, anyway, so I really don't see the point. Trying to convince the consumers that your product is better than Motec is only going to make you look foolish. The AEM EMS has several advantages over the other EMS products, and I think that even nubies can realize this.

Hehehe, I must admit that the attempt to discredit the top rotary tuners was an interesting new twist. Yeah, they would all use the AEM if they just knew about it. LOL, right. I also liked the class warfare attempt, especially with the RX-7 analogy thrown in there. When you use that in the future, though, you may want to compare RX-7's in general to other cars, since quite a few people consider the FD as the worst of the RX-7's. I guess it would work for you as long as your product is only available to FD owners, though.

Please post a link to the Supraforums discussion. It sounds amusing.

BTW, did you see this old thread about the EMS that I'm selling? It's better than a Motec.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=60392

Damon1

Here is where you are missing the point. I have used both, and the AEM does do way more. What you are stating is an opinion, not facts. What makes the MoTec better? The fact that who you think is some of the top "rotary" tuners use it doesn't make it better. So what does? To me, it is quite simple, what can MoTec do that AEM can't? The answer, not near as much as the AEM can do that the MoTec can't. In fact, the only thing I can see that the MoTec can do is run low impedance injectors without a ballast resistor (big deal). There are dozens of things the AEM can do that the MoTec cannot. Make a point, not an opinion.

Here is the link (finally! I had to do the search manually)
http://www.supraforums.com/showthrea...threadid=90570

Read the whole thread, it is very informative, and strictly based upon fact, not opinions.

Evil Aviator

I stated the facts by pointing out the top rotary tuners who use the Motec. You can give them a call if you would like to ask them why they use the Motec EMS. If your opinion is that the AEM works better for you, then that's great.

More doesn't necessarily mean better, otherwise we would all be driving Yugos loaded with big stereo systems, power windows, and all the other typical add-on junk.

Thanks, that must have been a pain to find.

Actually, that thead is better than I thought it would be. I think that this pretty much sums up my opinion:

"Motec is NOT the answer to everyone's needs or concepts. Trying to compare systems is futile. Motec does not sell deliberately into a market segment where legal issues, (re:emissions)come into play. Also, Motec controllers can,do,and will always be "ahead" of the market for state of the art electronic controls; racing,industrial,aircraft,etc."

Damon1

I am not denying the fact that you know people who are tuning rotaries with MoTec's, the opinion part is that they are the top tuners.

Of course MoTec is going to state they are the state of the art electronics.

IF more isn't better, what exactly is making the MoTec better if it doesn't do more? The stock ecu in cars built in the mid 80's are still working perfectly fine today, and I guarantee you the parts used in any EFI system today (including the AEM) are way better than the parts used 20 years ago, so what is making the MoTec better? Price? If Mazda charged 120k for the RX7 does that instantly make it a better car? Of course not.

What I am trying to say is this. If you haven't used both, reserve judgement for yourself, or talk to someone who honestly has. I'm not talking someone who has had a MoTec for 5 years, and knows the thing front and back, and played with the AEM once. Of course they are going to get a bit frustrated, it's a completely different software set. The first time I used windows 95 from 3.1 I couldn't find anything, can you imagine using 3.1 now? Talk to someone who has "time" on both units. I know the answer you will get. Several of the Supra guys have played with both, and the ones who have actually taken the time to get to know the software, like the AEM much better.

Evil Aviator

Oh, I see, you are new to RX-7's. Those are the top Mazda road racing tuners. I didn't include the top drag racing tuners because drag racing does not tax an EMS to its full potential. Also, I did not include the top street tuners (PFS, Pettit, etc.) because they are in the same category as the road race tuners, but one level down in my opinion, although I do realize that they race occasionally.

Better quality, and better flexibility. Like 1morpostr stated, you can just look at the AEM EMS and see that it's not of the same quality as the Motec. However, whether this is worth the extra cost and difficulty of tuning a Motec is another story.

Damon1

I am actually not new to RX7's at all, I have had one in various forms for the past 10 years. But I doubt you are qualified to say who is the best tuner. Just because those people do well, doesn't mean they are the top notch people. And just becuase they use X brand, doesn't mean it's the best. If that were the case, all of the "top" tuners would be spending 50+k on Magnetti Marrelli units (F1). I know people who I would say are very good tuners, and if you talk to them, they will tell you they can tune anything as long as the software does what you tell it to do, after all, tuning is nothing more than getting the fuel and timing right at the right time.

Again quality of what? I have had my M48 apart, and my AEM apart, completely different design, but what makes the MoTec higher quality, I don't see gold plating inside, all of the components are pretty much of the same series.

Evil Aviator

Have you been to this web site yet?
http://www.cpusa.org/

They view things pretty much the same as you do, in that everything is equal, regardless of success or quality differences. With them, Rick Engman and the shadetree teenage mechanic down the street are viewed as equal tuners. I think you will find more people there who are receptive to your sales pitch.

BTW, don't you think that the F1 teams are wasting their money on the MM EMS when they could be using an AEM for a $48K+ savings? Afterall, they both have circuit boards and run the engine, right?

Damon1

First, this isn't any kind of sales pitch, it's not like I make money if you buy an AEM. You will simply be glad you did.

Second, the F1 teams aren't wasting a bunch of money. The money they are paying isn't for the $1000 cost box they are buying, it's the software. They have specific software needs that you and I couldn't even imaging. If you follow the industry at all, you would know that after about 15 YEARS f1 technology trickles down to road cars. F1 teams use proprietary companies specifically because they do NOT want their technology getting out before it is outdated and everyteam has figured it out anyway. Completely different reasons. You might want to do your homework a little more before you type.

enzo250

Im sorry but i have to agree with EVIL on this one... I have used AEM and didn't like it. I also didn't put in ton's of time learning the software either. One thing i really hated is the dam thing keeps getting fucked up. Every one i've seen in cars had to be sent back for re-flashing. Complete pain in the ***. And tuning the dam thing really sucks.

The only computers that i would even think to compare to Magnetti, Bosch, EFI, Ztec, etc is a Motec or Autronic.

It's also funny how every ems on the market is always trying to claim it's better then a Motec.

Damon1

Sucks your having problems, I have been lucky enough to not have any problems. I know people have had problems, just not me. Just out of curiosity, what OS are you on, and what type of laptop were you using. Microsoft claims compatability between 98 and up versions, but I have found several instances where this isn't the case, one of the problems with windows. Also were you using a USB or serial com. Apparantly all usb adapters are not created equal, and this will cause problems as well.

I can't understand how you could think the AEM is hard to tune, it took me all of 45 minutes to tune mine from the base map, and nothing on my car is close to stock. I felt the software was almost to easy to use.

Xcessive

The AEM instructions state that you are to use a resiter in line with the low impeadence injectors. What this tells me is the AEM cant even fire a peak hold injectors 4A/1A ,just saturated injectors at 1amp switching.
This says that it cant controll the manufacturers specs on large injectors.

Damon1

SOrry, that is incorrect. If that were the case, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and Toyota wouldn't use this method from the factory. The control is perfectly fine, I run 1000cc 2 ohm injectors on mine without a hitch.