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I am getting a random ignition cut for a split second when at higher RPM on my e420d. I have no turbo, the rev limit is set to cut fuel, which it does, all other limiters are set to over 8000RPM, or off, and all cut methods are not selected apart from the rev limit. What is triggering this? I have attached a log file, and my map. The map was changed to a 7400RPM rev limit, 7200RPM soft, and overrun fuel cut was disabled, but still should not cut ignition.
I also noticed that my injection timing is all of a sudden reading -260, where all of my other logs have read 0, since I have variable injection timing turned off?
I am getting a random ignition cut for a split second when at higher RPM on my e420d. I have no turbo, the rev limit is set to cut fuel, which it does, all other limiters are set to over 8000RPM, or off, and all cut methods are not selected apart from the rev limit. What is triggering this? I have attached a log file, and my map. The map was changed to a 7400RPM rev limit, 7200RPM soft, and overrun fuel cut was disabled, but still should not cut ignition.
I also noticed that my injection timing is all of a sudden reading -260, where all of my other logs have read 0, since I have variable injection timing turned off?
I looked through the file and couldn't find anything that to me stood out to be the cause of an ignition cut at high rpm. You do have something funky I haven't seen before setup as a rpm based AUX 8 output with a low/high threshold of 6800/6900 rpms. I only looked at the file in wari and not eugene so I don't know if the newer software would shed more light on what this output is actually doing, but I dont know what in an engine control system requires an output at 6800/6900 rpms but I'm open to learn if someone can enlighten me...
I forgot about that, I pre wired for a shift light/buzzer, but its not connected yet. I'm also emailing adaptronic, and he had me disable input 4, which is my launch control enable, also pre wired, but not connected. Going to test tonight. I left these set up so I knew what they were, the wires are labeled behind the dash, but not used yet.
I forgot about that, I pre wired for a shift light/buzzer, but its not connected yet. I'm also emailing adaptronic, and he had me disable input 4, which is my launch control enable, also pre wired, but not connected. Going to test tonight. I left these set up so I knew what they were, the wires are labeled behind the dash, but not used yet.
I gotcha. I guess you could have been hitting a launch control ignition cut but the tune fine I saw had the launch control turned off and even then it was set to be inactive above 1 mph and if I remember correctly the clutch has to be engaged to trigger the cut. Either way...unless the ecu is malfunctioning and doing something it shouldnt be, the the cut shouldnt be related to the launch control.
Everything seems fine after I removed my launch control enable input from the software. Now I have to figure out why it was interfering. I had the same issue with my flat shift, it was causing a random ignition cut above 4000rpm as well. I don't have a speed sensor connected to the ecm so it doesn't know speed, maybe that was the launch control issue? I have 2 clutch switches set up, one on the clutch pedal, and one connected to the transmission neutral switch, both independently connected to the ecm. I wonder if one is going bad?
Everything seems fine after I removed my launch control enable input from the software. Now I have to figure out why it was interfering. I had the same issue with my flat shift, it was causing a random ignition cut above 4000rpm as well. I don't have a speed sensor connected to the ecm so it doesn't know speed, maybe that was the launch control issue? I have 2 clutch switches set up, one on the clutch pedal, and one connected to the transmission neutral switch, both independently connected to the ecm. I wonder if one is going bad?
Its my understanding that only 1 of the sensors should actually be tied to the ecu. The one that is on the firewall isnt so much a "clutch switch" used for signaling the ecu that the clutch is depressed but rather is a "clutch bypass switch" that prevents the starter from getting power and turning the motor over while the car is in gear with the clutch engaged which essentially prevents you from being able to crank the car without the clutch pedal depressed.
The sensor that is under the dash that is depressed when the clutch pedal is released is what should be signaling the ecu.
I have been going back and forward with them. I just have to find someone to help me watch my inputs while I drive to see if I have noise causing random cuts.
I have been going back and forward with them. I just have to find someone to help me watch my inputs while I drive to see if I have noise causing random cuts.
Datalogs should specify the cut reason when a cut is applied, or at least they used to when I was logging using wari and a s6 pnp select.
Right, so is the plunger adjusted properly on the sensor and pedal assembly? This sounds like a mechanical adjustment of that.
Your car might need the clutch pedal assembly to be adjusted.
Here's an example from my daily driver which depicts the clutch pedal switch perfectly.
I don't think its an issue with the adjustment of the clutch pedal, obviously something was triggering an ignition cut when it shouldn't be...
It seems to me like an issue with the hardware/software that somehow links launch control ignition cuts to something else internally that triggers it when it shouldn't. Hell I recently had a friend who found out the trigger errors he was experiencing was tied to the fact that the ECU internal logging was turned on....so any screwed up logic is possible. I'd check the cut logic in the logs and see what rationale the ECU was applying the cut based off of, at the end of the day the cuts are triggered when an electrical discrete is issued based on a 1 or 0 across multiple conditions. If all that **** is turned off and it is still sending out discrete cut signals, something deeper than tune is wrong. If if it the clutch sensor triggering from improper adjustment of the switch, the log will tell.
Opening this up in Eugene... Here are the following mistakes/errors:
Whoever tuned this is a total piece of ****.
Full Throttle Set to 80% on TPS.
Knock Offset is Entirely Turned off from 0-8000 RPM (No Knock Sensor)
Wideband is set to AEM UEGO (Please be sure that's what you're using - Having this setup incorrectly on it's 0-5v sweep is incredibly valuable information)
Digital Input 1 and 2 are both set to Clutch (Active Low)
Digital Input 4 is set to Launch Control Enable (Active Low)
Dwell Time is locked at 3ms (LAME.)
Injectors are Setup as ALTERNATE! WHAT THE FLYING ****! 12-34-12-34 instead of Fully Sequential (1-2-3-4)
Injectors are both set to 460cc/min
Base Fuel Pressure is set to 370kPa (53.66psi?!?!)
Injector Deadtimes are NOT matched to each other or to Factory Specifications
Soft Fuel Rev Limit at 6800 RPM, Hard Fuel Cut at 7000 RPM
Cold and Hot Rev Limits Disabled (STUPID)
Throttle Overrun Values FAR too High
Launch Control Disabled, but set at 4000 RPM and 1 mi/hr limits, which are pretty good.
OMP, Twin Turbo, AC Control, Blow Off Valve, Turbo Timer, etc are either disabled or poorly setup
Last cell of Fuel Map is only up to 7500 RPM and has a MASSIVE 500 RPM step in it beforehand. You're far from tuned around that region
Closed Loop is enabled up to 6000 RPM and only after operating temp reaches 176F... Dumb.
Open Loop Transients Enabled (Dumb).
Maximum Transient Advanced/Retard = 12 Degrees of Timing (HOLY **** KABOOM)
This is some extra retard ****. Sure, I guess this is okay... Not optimizing efficiency or power, just blah.
I'll be happy to sit your tuner down over coffee and educate them on a few Greg Banish and Bosch Engine Calibration books for you. This is absolutely unacceptable and for someone to offer this as a service to others in the community, they should be ashamed of themselves. This is GARBAGE and charging for this kind of work is unbelievable.
Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 09-12-18 at 03:09 AM.
He might be tuning it himself and it may be his first time. Constructive criticism is helpful, and you guys are very knowledgeable, but calling the guy names probably won't help
He might be tuning it himself and it may be his first time. Constructive criticism is helpful, and you guys are very knowledgeable, but calling the guy names probably won't help
You're right. I didn't think about it being self tuned.
Either way, that's a start for whoever did tune it, there's massive amounts of errors.
I'll fix it all myself and post a file once I know the cars actual injector, fuel pressure, wideband o2, etc.
Eh even then its not the worst, Ive seen some "professional" Vargas tunes that make this look stellar. I guess I only saw half of the tune since I opened it in wari. I really hate eugene but I guess its a necessary evil at this point.
Opening this up in Eugene... Here are the following mistakes/errors:
Whoever tuned this is a total piece of ****.
Full Throttle Set to 80% on TPS. - This is a standard OEM setting, figure anything over 80% will enable clear flood on cranking, and over 80% is not a cruising throttle setting.
Knock Offset is Entirely Turned off from 0-8000 RPM (No Knock Sensor) - No knock sensor installed
Wideband is set to AEM UEGO (Please be sure that's what you're using - Having this setup incorrectly on it's 0-5v sweep is incredibly valuable information) - Have an AEM wideband gauge connected to my serial in, is working fine, 0-5V analog input is not used
Digital Input 1 and 2 are both set to Clutch (Active Low) - Read somewhere that this is how its set up on the plug n play units, input 1 is my clutch pedal switch, input 2 is my neutral switch in the transmission
Digital Input 4 is set to Launch Control Enable (Active Low) - Pre wired for future installation of a switch, just have a terminated wire going to drivers side footwell labelled launch control, its set for that so that I remember, but does nothing right now
Dwell Time is locked at 3ms (LAME.) - Just replaced the stock FC coils/ignition with LS square coils last month in a hope it was causing my misfire, kept the dwell low and standard since I am not boosted and dont need a high dwell yet, dont want to max out dwell and introduce new problems
Injectors are Setup as ALTERNATE! WHAT THE FLYING ****! 12-34-12-34 instead of Fully Sequential (1-2-3-4) - This is how the S4 engine basemap set up the injectors, I have not changed it
Injectors are both set to 460cc/min - That is what I have installed, stock 86 S4 low impedance NA 460cc fuel injectors in primary and secondary
Base Fuel Pressure is set to 370kPa (53.66psi?!?!) - Running 36psi fuel pressure with pump running, engine off, not sure why thats off, just looked, and I am unable to change it in WARI, its greyed out.
Injector Deadtimes are NOT matched to each other or to Factory Specifications - Where can you find factory specifications, only thing I could find was on a Miata forum, someone measured them, and I searched for part number, overlooked the secondary setting, but it wasn't until 2 weeks ago that I found a way to make the secondary's come on, before they would not come on until 6700RPM
Soft Fuel Rev Limit at 6800 RPM, Hard Fuel Cut at 7000 RPM - Nothing wrong with this, was set higher, but lowered, I do have 3mm apex seals in this motor, and read that they are not as good at high RPM
Cold and Hot Rev Limits Disabled (STUPID) - Disabled recently after I found out that some of my cut was happening because of the flat shift cutting on randomly, since it improved but not fully fix, I turned off all cuts to test.
Throttle Overrun Values FAR too High - Just turned back on, keep getting issues of exhaust loading up with fuel on overrun, or just coming out of overrun, igniting, and making a extremely loud bang, doing this in residential areas is not good, it was turned off so that I could tune transitions better, now it has stopped.
Launch Control Disabled, but set at 4000 RPM and 1 mi/hr limits, which are pretty good. - Cable speedometer only on my truck, which is why I have no launch control, will enable once I get a speed sensor installed, after my rear axle swap, which the new one has a pickup on the ring gear.
OMP, Twin Turbo, AC Control, Blow Off Valve, Turbo Timer, etc are either disabled or poorly setup - Because none are installed on the engine, running premix, and N/A right now, decided to install standalone and learn it on a more forgiving NA rotary than learn turbos and standalones on a rotary at the same time and spend lots of money.
Last cell of Fuel Map is only up to 7500 RPM and has a MASSIVE 500 RPM step in it beforehand. You're far from tuned around that region - Hard to tune when it misfires like crazy above 4000RPM, its way out as I was adding fuel and removing fuel to try to fix
Closed Loop is enabled up to 6000 RPM and only after operating temp reaches 176F... Dumb. - Whats wrong with that, I did have it only up to 1200RPM so that I could tune off idle without closed loop interfering
Open Loop Transients Enabled (Dumb). - ? My latest map has it turned off
Maximum Transient Advanced/Retard = 12 Degrees of Timing (HOLY **** KABOOM) - The gain is set to -10, it says a negative number here means retard, so it retards up to 12 degrees of timing, cant put a negative number in the Maximum Transient Advanced/Retard box.
This is some extra retard ****. Sure, I guess this is okay... Not optimizing efficiency or power, just blah.
I'll be happy to sit your tuner down over coffee and educate them on a few Greg Banish and Bosch Engine Calibration books for you. This is absolutely unacceptable and for someone to offer this as a service to others in the community, they should be ashamed of themselves. This is GARBAGE and charging for this kind of work is unbelievable.
I answered your questions above in blue, I have tuned this myself, first time with a standalone. Some of my values are way off, as I have been fighting with this misfiring issue since I installed this engine last spring, before, I had a NA 6-port, and never had the issue, so I was trying to find my issue in the tune. Keep in mind, this is not in an RX7, and it is not an e440D that is offered with the plug n play, but the e420D, which has no auto tune feature. Wiring harness is all custom made.
I use WARI to tune, Eugene is very slow on my computer, takes a good 15-30 seconds to load a window.
I answered your questions above in blue, I have tuned this myself, first time with a standalone. Some of my values are way off, as I have been fighting with this misfiring issue since I installed this engine last spring, before, I had a NA 6-port, and never had the issue, so I was trying to find my issue in the tune. Keep in mind, this is not in an RX7, and it is not an e440D that is offered with the plug n play, but the e420D, which has no auto tune feature. Wiring harness is all custom made.
I use WARI to tune, Eugene is very slow on my computer, takes a good 15-30 seconds to load a window.
Very good rationale on all points made. I'll read back through and comment when able but I don't see anything wrong with your intent, methods or reasoning.
I answered your questions above in blue, I have tuned this myself, first time with a standalone. Some of my values are way off, as I have been fighting with this misfiring issue since I installed this engine last spring, before, I had a NA 6-port, and never had the issue, so I was trying to find my issue in the tune. Keep in mind, this is not in an RX7, and it is not an e440D that is offered with the plug n play, but the e420D, which has no auto tune feature. Wiring harness is all custom made.
I use WARI to tune, Eugene is very slow on my computer, takes a good 15-30 seconds to load a window.
Eugene is buggy, but it'll at least show you this stuff that WARI fails to. It's going to be a necessary evil.
I'll report back by the end of the week with all of my fixes on your map and a posted ECU file.
Turns out that my intermittent WOT cut-outs were caused by the same issue. I'm glad I found your thread so I could eliminate them easily
As soon as I disabled launch control and flat shift, they were gone completely.
Turns out that my intermittent WOT cut-outs were caused by the same issue. I'm glad I found your thread so I could eliminate them easily
As soon as I disabled launch control and flat shift, they were gone completely.
This still doesnt make sense to me...why those channels on the ecu were sending out some sort of signal when none of the conditions were met suggests to me that something isnt right.
I had a very similar problem on my Select Pnp. Turn on launch control and it would be slow to react and cause very minor misfires. Although, it's most likely because my speed sensor doesn't give an accurate signal. Kinda just knows when the car is moving and when it isn't. Haven't had any issues on my Integras Infinity with these features so there must be something about the old Adaptronic units that don't like those features.
09-04-18, 10:35 PM
