worth it?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: usa
worth it?
I've stumbled upon a pristine conditioned 93 black touring, with 5 speed manual and the tan interior. it has the original motor in it at 127,000 miles (a lot, i know) and the guy selling it says he is the second owner for 13 years. it seems like he took pretty good care of it.
however, he states that he sees no reason why the engine could not last another 50,000 miles because he has not performed any modifications to the engine or car or raced it. he wants 12K for it, which is right around the NADA value. is this worth it? i'm thinking that the engine will still go pretty soon since it's at such high mileage. he will be running a compression test on it next week, but even then, isn't it more than likely that the engine will go soon? 12K would seem more appropriate if it included a rebuilt motor in my opinion.
just to show the condition, here are some links to pics he sent me (they're kind of big so follow the link):
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_005.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_006.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_007.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_009.jpg
however, he states that he sees no reason why the engine could not last another 50,000 miles because he has not performed any modifications to the engine or car or raced it. he wants 12K for it, which is right around the NADA value. is this worth it? i'm thinking that the engine will still go pretty soon since it's at such high mileage. he will be running a compression test on it next week, but even then, isn't it more than likely that the engine will go soon? 12K would seem more appropriate if it included a rebuilt motor in my opinion.
just to show the condition, here are some links to pics he sent me (they're kind of big so follow the link):
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_005.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_006.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_007.jpg
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ahoh/mazda/mazda_009.jpg
Last edited by spaceman_spiff; Jan 19, 2008 at 01:20 PM.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,049
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From: orlando fl
The motor should last quite a while more if you take care of it. The water seals is what i would be worried about if it still has the stock downpipe though.
I bought mine from the original owner with 105xxx miles on it not to long ago. drives great, always starts up, its stock except for intake exhaust and dp. I would say 12 would be an awesome deal.
do it.
I bought mine from the original owner with 105xxx miles on it not to long ago. drives great, always starts up, its stock except for intake exhaust and dp. I would say 12 would be an awesome deal.
do it.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 96
From: Bay Area, CA
They look too small.
It looks very nice. If you are comfortable with idea of dropping $5-$7k for a rebuilt engine and turbos in the near future, then it is not an absolutely terrible deal I suppose. In my mind, this is then a $20k car though - and you can get a pretty nice FD (with a recent engine and low miles) for that price.
It looks very nice. If you are comfortable with idea of dropping $5-$7k for a rebuilt engine and turbos in the near future, then it is not an absolutely terrible deal I suppose. In my mind, this is then a $20k car though - and you can get a pretty nice FD (with a recent engine and low miles) for that price.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 96
From: Bay Area, CA
how much do you guys think its really worth then if the engine is about to go?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: usa
then assuming it has been given proper maintenance all it's life (129,000 miles), how much longer do you think the rotary would last? i know not all engines are the same, but roughly how many more miles do you think it could last?
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I win
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,875
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From: NJ
Get a compression test done if you are worried about how long it will last so then you can be reassured about the condition of the motor. Also look up the champane test if you are worried about the coolant seals. Be sure to have a backup vehicle just incase, my 7 treated me well for a while.... now its receiving another motor and turbo setup.
I'm one of those
(Only with the FD though. I blame the car!). I keep ALL my receipts and any and every paperwork I have for the car including tickets...LoL.
Constant threat
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 39
From: near Wichita, Kansas
A very quick search on the subject showed that MOST coolant seal related failures were happening between 60,000 miles and 100,000 miles. A stock or relatively stock engine is unlikely to blow an apex or corner seal on the rotors, and frankly as your compression ratio falls a bit with age and your turbos don't boost quite like they used to, you gain a certain 'safety factor' on having to not worry about leaning out and breaking the engine that way. Of course, this IS pretty much offset by aging fuel pumps, fuel filters, and injectors....lol!
If it was me, I would get a compression test done and then have a full cooling system leak-down test performed. You CAN get coolant samples analyzed for hydrocarbon traces, indicating a leaking coolant seal...though I don't know of any shops personally that do that.
Even with a totally blown motor, that car is worth $7K or $8K, to someone wanting to put a new/rebuilt engine in it.
As others have stated, it is not a question of 'if' you have to rebuild, but simply 'when'. You WILL have to spend between $1500 and $6K on this car's engine at some point. You can take a fairly inexpensive route by using one of Rotary Resurrection's rebuilds, which a LOT of people have had VERY good results with. Kevin is a good guy and knows his cars and engines.
Or you can put literally however much money you want into a new or rebuilt engine and turbos. Some of us have spent $5K - $6K, some have spent twice that on exotic single turbo setups with customized engine management systems and state of the art instruments like wide band 02 sensor set ups, etc.
Do NOT buy the car if it has to be your ONLY car. That simply will not work out well, trust us.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: usa
I have to say that your #1 worry for this engine HAS to be blowing the coolant seals. For sure, you should get a compression test done, but I will bet it will show great compression for its age. The compression test is to insure there isn't a broken apex or corner seal, for the most part anyway. But you just seriously cannot know how long a coolant seal is going to last.
A very quick search on the subject showed that MOST coolant seal related failures were happening between 60,000 miles and 100,000 miles. A stock or relatively stock engine is unlikely to blow an apex or corner seal on the rotors, and frankly as your compression ratio falls a bit with age and your turbos don't boost quite like they used to, you gain a certain 'safety factor' on having to not worry about leaning out and breaking the engine that way. Of course, this IS pretty much offset by aging fuel pumps, fuel filters, and injectors....lol!
If it was me, I would get a compression test done and then have a full cooling system leak-down test performed. You CAN get coolant samples analyzed for hydrocarbon traces, indicating a leaking coolant seal...though I don't know of any shops personally that do that.
Even with a totally blown motor, that car is worth $7K or $8K, to someone wanting to put a new/rebuilt engine in it.
As others have stated, it is not a question of 'if' you have to rebuild, but simply 'when'. You WILL have to spend between $1500 and $6K on this car's engine at some point. You can take a fairly inexpensive route by using one of Rotary Resurrection's rebuilds, which a LOT of people have had VERY good results with. Kevin is a good guy and knows his cars and engines.
Or you can put literally however much money you want into a new or rebuilt engine and turbos. Some of us have spent $5K - $6K, some have spent twice that on exotic single turbo setups with customized engine management systems and state of the art instruments like wide band 02 sensor set ups, etc.
Do NOT buy the car if it has to be your ONLY car. That simply will not work out well, trust us.
A very quick search on the subject showed that MOST coolant seal related failures were happening between 60,000 miles and 100,000 miles. A stock or relatively stock engine is unlikely to blow an apex or corner seal on the rotors, and frankly as your compression ratio falls a bit with age and your turbos don't boost quite like they used to, you gain a certain 'safety factor' on having to not worry about leaning out and breaking the engine that way. Of course, this IS pretty much offset by aging fuel pumps, fuel filters, and injectors....lol!
If it was me, I would get a compression test done and then have a full cooling system leak-down test performed. You CAN get coolant samples analyzed for hydrocarbon traces, indicating a leaking coolant seal...though I don't know of any shops personally that do that.
Even with a totally blown motor, that car is worth $7K or $8K, to someone wanting to put a new/rebuilt engine in it.
As others have stated, it is not a question of 'if' you have to rebuild, but simply 'when'. You WILL have to spend between $1500 and $6K on this car's engine at some point. You can take a fairly inexpensive route by using one of Rotary Resurrection's rebuilds, which a LOT of people have had VERY good results with. Kevin is a good guy and knows his cars and engines.
Or you can put literally however much money you want into a new or rebuilt engine and turbos. Some of us have spent $5K - $6K, some have spent twice that on exotic single turbo setups with customized engine management systems and state of the art instruments like wide band 02 sensor set ups, etc.
Do NOT buy the car if it has to be your ONLY car. That simply will not work out well, trust us.
Great advice, thanks. I always wondered about going the route of just purchasing a used lower mileage engine or a used rebuild and dropping in the chassis once the original motor goes. But I see people all the time talking about how they are getting their motors rebuilt instead of just purchasing a used one. It seems that the price of a rebuild is actually far greater than purchasing at 13B with lower milege on ebay (I've seen them go for like $2.5K). Wouldn't it make more sense financially for people to just do that instead of rebuilding their own motor again? How much do the engines are Rotary Resurrection cost?
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 96
From: Bay Area, CA
A reman from, say, Ray Crowe is going to be close to $3k shipped. A used engine is a risk, especially from eBay. You have no idea how it has been treated and have no way of verifying that the miles are indeed low. A Rotary Resurrection rebuild is going to be $1500+ or so. Go to their web site to get a break down.
If I were you, I'd get a compression test done, and make it clear to the seller that as the engine gets closer to death the closer the compression test gets to failing.
If it tests out at 6.5 to 7.0 where 9.0 is brand new and 6.0 is failing, the guy has to be pretty obtuse to not consider a price break. You can very fairly state that even with excellent care, going beyond 127k is quite unlikely.
I would also get the coolant tested for hydrocarbons, and explain that water seal failure is also a very high risk.
If the guy won't discount the price for any reason then he doesn't want to sell to you and would rather wait for a less informed buyer to stumble around. Personally I wouldn't pay more than $10k for that, and I still would be nervous with any price over $8k.
Dave
If it tests out at 6.5 to 7.0 where 9.0 is brand new and 6.0 is failing, the guy has to be pretty obtuse to not consider a price break. You can very fairly state that even with excellent care, going beyond 127k is quite unlikely.
I would also get the coolant tested for hydrocarbons, and explain that water seal failure is also a very high risk.
If the guy won't discount the price for any reason then he doesn't want to sell to you and would rather wait for a less informed buyer to stumble around. Personally I wouldn't pay more than $10k for that, and I still would be nervous with any price over $8k.
Dave
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