whats considered high intake temp?
Humm, I get pretty hot air intake temps also. Iwas told its a flaw with the design of the PFS "cool air " box. I also have his SMIC and I see air intake temps creep up to 70c when its hot in traffic .It drops back to the high 50's once I move for a mile or two. But the restriction on air really makes my temps rise .My dyno runs really showed how mush HP loss I was having due to heat soak and high intake temps .My solution is to replace my PFS equipment .It doesnt seem to be designed for applications above 300 hp.I also am installing a Mid pipe, I can see how this will reduce my EGT temps , but would it benefit my Air intake temps ?
I modded my PFS intake to draw air from beside the rad. like an M2/CWR etc., and it really worked well.
I've since switched to a CWR, and other than the extra room it offers for a bigger intercooler (i have not taken advantage of this yet, still running the PFS), i can discern no advantage in temps or flow from the CWR... and an M2 could really be any different.
The "Flaw" to which you refer is on that was also in reference to the stock system... that the suction of the intake could actually draw hot air BACK through the IC, since it sources air from the IC duct.... i think my extra duct in the PFS really minimized this.
The only flaw I couldn't fix was the fact that the two are tied together such that you had to practically remove the whole system to work on either piece...
I've since switched to a CWR, and other than the extra room it offers for a bigger intercooler (i have not taken advantage of this yet, still running the PFS), i can discern no advantage in temps or flow from the CWR... and an M2 could really be any different.
The "Flaw" to which you refer is on that was also in reference to the stock system... that the suction of the intake could actually draw hot air BACK through the IC, since it sources air from the IC duct.... i think my extra duct in the PFS really minimized this.
The only flaw I couldn't fix was the fact that the two are tied together such that you had to practically remove the whole system to work on either piece...
Originally posted by Nuvolari
Humm, I get pretty hot air intake temps also. Iwas told its a flaw with the design of the PFS "cool air " box. I also have his SMIC and I see air intake temps creep up to 70c when its hot in traffic .It drops back to the high 50's once I move for a mile or two. But the restriction on air really makes my temps rise .My dyno runs really showed how mush HP loss I was having due to heat soak and high intake temps .My solution is to replace my PFS equipment .It doesnt seem to be designed for applications above 300 hp.I also am installing a Mid pipe, I can see how this will reduce my EGT temps , but would it benefit my Air intake temps ?
Humm, I get pretty hot air intake temps also. Iwas told its a flaw with the design of the PFS "cool air " box. I also have his SMIC and I see air intake temps creep up to 70c when its hot in traffic .It drops back to the high 50's once I move for a mile or two. But the restriction on air really makes my temps rise .My dyno runs really showed how mush HP loss I was having due to heat soak and high intake temps .My solution is to replace my PFS equipment .It doesnt seem to be designed for applications above 300 hp.I also am installing a Mid pipe, I can see how this will reduce my EGT temps , but would it benefit my Air intake temps ?
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From: Waiting for Indykid to catch up
Originally posted by matty
i dont under understand why people say to duct the rad....isnt it right in the front of the car ..right in the line of nice fresh air?
i dont under understand why people say to duct the rad....isnt it right in the front of the car ..right in the line of nice fresh air?
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
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From: CT
Originally posted by radkins
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
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From: IN
Originally posted by radkins
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
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From: MD
Originally posted by radkins
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
Not when you have a front mount I/C. You need to be a little more creative to force air to it.
I ducted my stock position radiator by sealin off the sides and the bottom and it helped BIG TIME. I was seeing 110+ quickly on the same track SleepR1 spoke of, and now dont see more than 102 at worst.
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From: IN
Take some wall-unit A/C foam and use carpet tape to stick the the foam to the bottom of the rad core. Once you re-install the understray, the foam seals the bottom of the rad core to the undertray, thus forcing more air through the rad core. Make sure the A/C foam is thick enough and long enough to cover the bottom sides (ie, the form will curve upward from the bottom of the rad core).
What Ryan has done is sprayed liquid foam between the sides of the rad core and the engine bay.
With our setup, you're forcing air through the rad core rather around the rad core.
I have no pics to post at this time, so you'll just have to use your imagination LOL
What Ryan has done is sprayed liquid foam between the sides of the rad core and the engine bay.
With our setup, you're forcing air through the rad core rather around the rad core.
I have no pics to post at this time, so you'll just have to use your imagination LOL
Last edited by SleepR1; Jul 1, 2003 at 12:28 PM.
Originally posted by rynberg
I'm not sure that's a good idea. Yes, the sensor may get heat-soaked, but so does the UIM. If you relocate your IAT sensor, you are going to be reading a lower temp than what your motor is seeing. Your ecu will not retard the timing as much and then........
I'm not sure that's a good idea. Yes, the sensor may get heat-soaked, but so does the UIM. If you relocate your IAT sensor, you are going to be reading a lower temp than what your motor is seeing. Your ecu will not retard the timing as much and then........
A search for "air intake temp sensor relocation" will give more detail on the topic, see the Forum and Datalogit archives.
Jack
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From: Waiting for Indykid to catch up
Originally posted by matty
wow..thats impressive...what rad do you have and how did you duct it. Any pics?
wow..thats impressive...what rad do you have and how did you duct it. Any pics?
My ducting on my stock mount PWR works like this. If you are looking head on at the radiator, you can see that the air can go around and under the rad easier than through it. The idea is to give it no other option but go through it by building a high pressure zone in front of the rad. I used aluminum to block off the sides. You do this by taking the undertray off and making a cardboard template first. It takes some time to get right. The drivers side is the hardest because of the AC lines. Once you have them in place I used expanding liquid foam to fill in all the holes and hold the aluminum in place, especially on the drivers side because the is no way to get a good seal. For the bottom I noticed that my undertray was sagging, so all I did was tie a wire through one of the holes in the undertray and tie it up to the subframe that my M2 IC sits on. That was very simple, there is aleady a lip where the rad hits it so it seals very well with good tension. After that, shine a light from the back of the rad and see if there is light coming through. If there is, hit it with some expanding foam. I was very **** about the whole thing and it took me a good 5-6 hrs to get it perfect, but I can tell you the after I finished it was very obvious is was going to work great. I noticed results right away on the highway, and at the track I was very pleased.
What sort of foam are you guys using? Just the spray insulation stuff at Home Depot that expands when you spray it on? I do like the idea of using roll bar padding too, hadn't thought of that one.
I have a Blitz fmic and I have been getting rather creative in ducting my radiator (Fluidyne) to improve cooling, especially when boosting for a bit on the freeway in warm temps.. or under load for a bit like when climbing a hill. It isn't out of control yet since I have the sides completely ducted with aluminum sheets/tape but I don't like seeing my water temps climb steadily from the mid 80's to mid 90's within a few minutes. I am about to cut the bottom of the underbelly pan down and extend an air scoop of sorts under the fmic and up to the front of the car, taking in air from under the 99 front lip if that is making any sense. We'll see how that works, also considering drilling my T-stat for the summer.
Sorry to get off topic, I know this thread was originally about intake temps.
Matt
I have a Blitz fmic and I have been getting rather creative in ducting my radiator (Fluidyne) to improve cooling, especially when boosting for a bit on the freeway in warm temps.. or under load for a bit like when climbing a hill. It isn't out of control yet since I have the sides completely ducted with aluminum sheets/tape but I don't like seeing my water temps climb steadily from the mid 80's to mid 90's within a few minutes. I am about to cut the bottom of the underbelly pan down and extend an air scoop of sorts under the fmic and up to the front of the car, taking in air from under the 99 front lip if that is making any sense. We'll see how that works, also considering drilling my T-stat for the summer.
Sorry to get off topic, I know this thread was originally about intake temps.
Matt
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From: Kalifornia
You guys are seeing way TOO high water temps. Ducking the radiator is mandatary. Many ways to do this. Use your imagination. Just make sure the air is forced through the radiator and not around. I am also using a large griffin radiator mounted vertically 27" X 15" X 3" with a large front mount intercooler in front of it ( APEX'i GTR core ). Intake temps have gotten as high as 195F. Stop and go traffic 105F outside air temp. Rarely have I seen temps above 186F when moving.( 185F thermostat ) I also have 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans. Currently set to turn on at 187F. No track time as of yet but if anyone is seeing temps around 220 -223F I would suggest they fix the problem right away. A larger radiator will help but it must be ducked properly or it will just take a little longer for the water to heat up and longer to cool down.
I relocated my air intake sensor to my Greddy throttle body and insulated it with Delron / Teflon ( It is what I had left in my scrap pile. ) I welded an aluminum fitting to my Greddy elbow tapped it and then turned the Delron down on a lathe and threaded it in and out. It seems to have isolated the sending unit from the heat of the throttle body fairly well. Intake temps were more constant. Especially after sitting in traffic on a hot day. Readings came down very quickly. If I were to do it again I would put it in the end tank of my intercooler. My intake filter is currently sitting right behind my radiator. I have seen intake temps around 117F stop and go traffic. Way too high for power. I am planning on making a carbon fiber box for it with a fresh air intake.
I don't have a pic of my elbow but hear are some old pics of my car. I have since changed it for the better. -
I relocated my air intake sensor to my Greddy throttle body and insulated it with Delron / Teflon ( It is what I had left in my scrap pile. ) I welded an aluminum fitting to my Greddy elbow tapped it and then turned the Delron down on a lathe and threaded it in and out. It seems to have isolated the sending unit from the heat of the throttle body fairly well. Intake temps were more constant. Especially after sitting in traffic on a hot day. Readings came down very quickly. If I were to do it again I would put it in the end tank of my intercooler. My intake filter is currently sitting right behind my radiator. I have seen intake temps around 117F stop and go traffic. Way too high for power. I am planning on making a carbon fiber box for it with a fresh air intake.
I don't have a pic of my elbow but hear are some old pics of my car. I have since changed it for the better. -
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From: Kalifornia
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 80-CU.IN.T
[B]You guys are seeing way TOO high water temps. Ducking the radiator is mandatary. Many ways to do this. Use your imagination. Just make sure the air is forced through the radiator and not around. I am also using a large griffin radiator mounted vertically 27" X 15" X 3" with a large front mount intercooler in front of it ( APEX'i GTR core ). Intake temps have gotten as high as 195F. Stop and go traffic 105F outside air temp. Rarely have I seen temps above 186F when moving.( 185F thermostat ) I also have 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans. Currently set to turn on at 187F. No track time as of yet but if anyone is seeing temps around 220 -223F I would suggest they fix the problem right away. A larger radiator will help but it must be ducked properly or it will just take a little longer for the water to heat up and longer to cool down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have read my post before posting it. The temps above are water temps . Second paragraph is air temp.
[B]You guys are seeing way TOO high water temps. Ducking the radiator is mandatary. Many ways to do this. Use your imagination. Just make sure the air is forced through the radiator and not around. I am also using a large griffin radiator mounted vertically 27" X 15" X 3" with a large front mount intercooler in front of it ( APEX'i GTR core ). Intake temps have gotten as high as 195F. Stop and go traffic 105F outside air temp. Rarely have I seen temps above 186F when moving.( 185F thermostat ) I also have 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans. Currently set to turn on at 187F. No track time as of yet but if anyone is seeing temps around 220 -223F I would suggest they fix the problem right away. A larger radiator will help but it must be ducked properly or it will just take a little longer for the water to heat up and longer to cool down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have read my post before posting it. The temps above are water temps . Second paragraph is air temp.
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From: San Lorenzo, California
With the mods in my sig, I am getting the following intake air temps on an 80-85F day.
stop-and-go: 50-60C
highway: 45-50C
The UIM heatsoaked to 86C when I stopped the car (yikes!), but cooled down to 60C reasonably quickly.
Last night (low 60s), my highway and town intake air temps were 39-46C.
EDIT: 80-cu.in.t: That's a hell of a radiator set-up you have....very nice!
stop-and-go: 50-60C
highway: 45-50C
The UIM heatsoaked to 86C when I stopped the car (yikes!), but cooled down to 60C reasonably quickly.
Last night (low 60s), my highway and town intake air temps were 39-46C.
EDIT: 80-cu.in.t: That's a hell of a radiator set-up you have....very nice!
Last edited by rynberg; Jul 1, 2003 at 06:35 PM.
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From: CT
Originally posted by 80-CU.IN.T
You guys are seeing way TOO high water temps. Ducking the radiator is mandatary. Many ways to do this. Use your imagination. Just make sure the air is forced through the radiator and not around. I am also using a large griffin radiator mounted vertically 27" X 15" X 3" with a large front mount intercooler in front of it ( APEX'i GTR core ). Intake temps have gotten as high as 195F. Stop and go traffic 105F outside air temp. Rarely have I seen temps above 186F when moving.( 185F thermostat ) I also have 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans. Currently set to turn on at 187F. No track time as of yet but if anyone is seeing temps around 220 -223F I would suggest they fix the problem right away. A larger radiator will help but it must be ducked properly or it will just take a little longer for the water to heat up and longer to cool down.
I relocated my air intake sensor to my Greddy throttle body and insulated it with Delron / Teflon ( It is what I had left in my scrap pile. ) I welded an aluminum fitting to my Greddy elbow tapped it and then turned the Delron down on a lathe and threaded it in and out. It seems to have isolated the sending unit from the heat of the throttle body fairly well. Intake temps were more constant. Especially after sitting in traffic on a hot day. Readings came down very quickly. If I were to do it again I would put it in the end tank of my intercooler. My intake filter is currently sitting right behind my radiator. I have seen intake temps around 117F stop and go traffic. Way too high for power. I am planning on making a carbon fiber box for it with a fresh air intake.
I don't have a pic of my elbow but hear are some old pics of my car. I have since changed it for the better. -
You guys are seeing way TOO high water temps. Ducking the radiator is mandatary. Many ways to do this. Use your imagination. Just make sure the air is forced through the radiator and not around. I am also using a large griffin radiator mounted vertically 27" X 15" X 3" with a large front mount intercooler in front of it ( APEX'i GTR core ). Intake temps have gotten as high as 195F. Stop and go traffic 105F outside air temp. Rarely have I seen temps above 186F when moving.( 185F thermostat ) I also have 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans. Currently set to turn on at 187F. No track time as of yet but if anyone is seeing temps around 220 -223F I would suggest they fix the problem right away. A larger radiator will help but it must be ducked properly or it will just take a little longer for the water to heat up and longer to cool down.
I relocated my air intake sensor to my Greddy throttle body and insulated it with Delron / Teflon ( It is what I had left in my scrap pile. ) I welded an aluminum fitting to my Greddy elbow tapped it and then turned the Delron down on a lathe and threaded it in and out. It seems to have isolated the sending unit from the heat of the throttle body fairly well. Intake temps were more constant. Especially after sitting in traffic on a hot day. Readings came down very quickly. If I were to do it again I would put it in the end tank of my intercooler. My intake filter is currently sitting right behind my radiator. I have seen intake temps around 117F stop and go traffic. Way too high for power. I am planning on making a carbon fiber box for it with a fresh air intake.
I don't have a pic of my elbow but hear are some old pics of my car. I have since changed it for the better. -
My road temps vs track temps are two completely different numbers. Track is hard on the car....full braking , full boost, 85 ambiant....think about it.
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From: Kalifornia
If you read my post, 
No track time with this car. I have thought about it though. That is why I put a huge Chevy Radiator in it vertically. The car needs suspension, BRAKES, 4 point, rims, tires and a tune. I have already pushed the car harder than I would on most tracks. 14 - 15 lbs of boost / constant -MAXIMUM - acceleration and deceleration between corners. I had a fcked up side seal so I did not care if it croked. All by myself and no one to take out if I made a mistake. #14 Angeles Crest highway California early hours. Brakes went away because of my miss-judgment on a high speed corner and I almost wet myself. No fun drifting at 130+ when you don't want to. Outside air temp was cool so no definant numbers for H20 or Air temp. The engine has been rebuilt since then and I have installed 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans to keep the temps in check when putting around town with my air on. I need somebody COMPETENT to tune my PFC. I haven't found anyone yet. The last person who tried Fcked up my side seal. I built this car as an everyday driver. 2800 LBS and hopefully 415 to 425 RWHP in the near future with my setup. It should see some track time but it is way too heavy and low on power to be designated as a track car. Yes my temps should rise on a hot day pushing the vehicle but I would not run my car if the temps were around 200 to 230F. I would pull over to let it cool down and when I got home I would figure out how to fix the problem.
No track time with this car. I have thought about it though. That is why I put a huge Chevy Radiator in it vertically. The car needs suspension, BRAKES, 4 point, rims, tires and a tune. I have already pushed the car harder than I would on most tracks. 14 - 15 lbs of boost / constant -MAXIMUM - acceleration and deceleration between corners. I had a fcked up side seal so I did not care if it croked. All by myself and no one to take out if I made a mistake. #14 Angeles Crest highway California early hours. Brakes went away because of my miss-judgment on a high speed corner and I almost wet myself. No fun drifting at 130+ when you don't want to. Outside air temp was cool so no definant numbers for H20 or Air temp. The engine has been rebuilt since then and I have installed 2 - 11" Spal medium profile fans to keep the temps in check when putting around town with my air on. I need somebody COMPETENT to tune my PFC. I haven't found anyone yet. The last person who tried Fcked up my side seal. I built this car as an everyday driver. 2800 LBS and hopefully 415 to 425 RWHP in the near future with my setup. It should see some track time but it is way too heavy and low on power to be designated as a track car. Yes my temps should rise on a hot day pushing the vehicle but I would not run my car if the temps were around 200 to 230F. I would pull over to let it cool down and when I got home I would figure out how to fix the problem.
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From: Kalifornia
AHHHH HHUUG. I seem to have a problem with typing / reading - temps should read 220F to 230F. I would not want to run my engine at or over these temps.
I love Sears Point to. It doesn't love me. Bought 2 cars there in same place. - turn 7B - Great track though I haven't been on it since it's revamp for NASCAR. Willow Springs is a very nice track also. Very fast but very, very hot is the summer. I haven't played anywhere for quite a while. Hopefully that will change soon.
I love Sears Point to. It doesn't love me. Bought 2 cars there in same place. - turn 7B - Great track though I haven't been on it since it's revamp for NASCAR. Willow Springs is a very nice track also. Very fast but very, very hot is the summer. I haven't played anywhere for quite a while. Hopefully that will change soon.
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