Ring Steel

My 93 Silver Touring had been getting harder to start and seemed to be a bit slower lately. I only drive it about once a month, so it's kinda hard to keep exact track of how it should perform. Today the motor had to spin for a LONG time before it fired up and it blew LOTS of blue smoke for 4 solid minutes. I let it warm up, smoke finally stopped, and went for a drive. I was seeing a blue smoke cloud in my rearview everytime I hit boost. Boost was great, peak at 13, but seemed slightly slower in building.

Came home, let it cool down, and pulled the spark plugs. They were fouled BAD, tons of black oil and carbon on them and they only have 400 miles on these new plugs. Checked my oil and I was 1 quart low, with 250 miles since my last oil change.

So, I'm guessing that I lost an oil seal in one of the turbos and I am getting oil into the intake. Does that sound correct?

Now I've got to make the decision on which turbo to buy. Upgraded high flow twins sound tempting, but I haven't found anyone with solid evidence of how much improvement they were.

Sigh. I think I can hear Crown and Seven calling me now.
Ring Steel

P.S. I would REALLY appreciate any info from anyone who has installed high flow twins in a RX-7.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

that doesn't sound like a turbo problem to me. how many miles on the engine. i would do a compression test and coolant pressure test. you may have INTERNAL engine oil seal failure. best way to figure out is take your car to a rotary specialist.... sounds like internal oil seal failure to me. my car had that and coolant seal failure looked like this.


just a bit of failure in my engine @ 87k miles

Ring Steel

currently 89000 on the original motor and turbos both.

Thanks for the pic. Mine looked exactly like that, but maybe a bit more smoke when I first started it.

RP in Dallas is gonna love to see me come back to their shop. :-) I always end up spending way too much money when I go there, but you can't take it with you.... and I refuse to live without my RX7.

Ring Steel

artguy

a bad side seal in your motor...dont know which housing though...low compression...possibly running on one rotor...or close to it.

good luck with your car.

if you do the rebuild...get it streetported. youll thank me later.


jason

edpaek

Actually, my car look way worse than that in the mornings... sometimes.. but it looks a lot more dense then that picture and alot more volume.

I have a question though... I've looked under my car and I've seen oil everywhere under the car... at the turbos and all over the bottom of my oil pan.... Is this JUST the engine seal (probably rear seal) or is it also the turbos? I'll get pics up soon...

Rated R1

IMO it sounds more like a turbo problem. Especially since you are blowing BLUE smoke and have oil everywhere under the car. Sounds like one of your turbos has thrown a seal. These are questions you need to answer if you think you may have lost an o-ring in the engine:

1. Are you losing coolant (add coolant light coming on)?
2. Is there any oily sludge-like residue in your coolant?
3. If your car is cold do you see a steady stream of champagne like bubbles at the filler neck when you start it?
4. Does the smoke have a coolant smell?

Investigate those questions before you make your mind up that an o-ring is gone. A compression test will not tell you if you have a bad o-ring it only gives an indication of how the apex and/or side seals are doing. A coolant pressure test will tell you how the o-rings are.

Good luck.

pweizman

Blue smoke under acceleration is usually an indication of the turbo seals going bye bye. Mine are doing the same thing.

However, I don't have the trouble starting the car like you do. If the smoke on startup smells like coolant...then you have a coolant o-ring going bye bye. Check your coolant usage, and smell the exhaust smoke. Also, if it is cool in the mornings...( you are in Texas...so maybe this isn't an issue) the car will smoke more.

Good luck.

Later,
Patrick

liamn56

Steel, drive your car everyday for a few days and I'll bet you won't have these problems. Not to offend anyone, but its opinions like these that give the RX7 a low reliability factor. I have been working on cars for 29yrs. I have learned a few things. One of them being that if you dont drive your car for a while, once you start to, engine will burn oil until everything sttles in its place. Like any piston with a few miles on it, the rotary that does'nt get driven that much will "burn" oil until it becomes driven on a regular basis. Do to the fact that you don't drive the 7n that much the oil never gets to a constant sealing/lubricating point. I bought my FD in Jan 2000 with 108K. I put on a few miles that year, but last year(2001), I hardly drove the car. At the end of last year, I took the car for a 1300mile round trip, at the first stop for gas I check the oil. Guess what? I had to put 2 quarts of oil. When I reached my destination, she was half a quart low. I changed the oil and filter. After that, everything is back to normal. Since then, I start the car every other day and warm-up fully and drive once a week. I only put 13k in 2 years I had the car. 11k in the first yr.

Steel, your turbos might be going bad, but you will get a lot more miles before you have to replace them.

People, enough with these premature coclusions that causes you to spend money when you don't have to. This car is getting such a bad rap, its a shame.

Steel, you have nothing to lose. Put on a few miles on the car every week. PM in 2 weeks and let me know if you're still loosing oil and fouling the plugs.
Good Luck

pweizman

This is quite possible. I have a high mileage car also. Mine has 117K on it. I believe it is on its second engine, and I am not sure about the turbos.

I picked up a used set, and I am in no hurry to swap them. However, I know I have a seal problem on them. I am getting an external oil leak from them on the intake side, and I am blowing oil through the turbos.

Most people who own 3rd gens don't screw around...at the first sign of problems, they get things fixed...which cost a bunch of money. But, like Liamn56 says..you probably could drive it for quite a while before the turbos go completely.

I would make sure you know exactly what the problem is though, so you don't risk further damage in the result of a catastrophic failure. I don't think the turbos will hurt anything if they go though.

Please correct me if I am wrong...

Later,
Patrick

SleepR1

That's what I am buying to replace my tired 92,000-mile original turbos.

My R1 is a daily driver, so I agree with liamn56's comments. It's much easier to start it if you drive the FD every day. I've found that letting it sit for more than week, makes the car tough to start, and does blow smoke for awhile until the motor's nice-n-warm.

pweizman

Hey R1,

Are you going to just pick up used ones off the board and throw them on?

Are you installing them yourself, or are you letting AIM or someone else do it for you?

Thanks,
Patrick
paw@ite.com

SleepR1

Patrick,

Will be buying brand new JDMs (~$3000). I can't rebuild my current turbos due to the huge cracks where they bolt to the exhaust manifold...

AIM will be doing the install...

FWIW, I will probably wait until the motor pops (has 92,000 HARD miles), before installing new turbos. New turbos with the old original motor may actually HASTEN the motor's DEMISE!

AIM will also do the motor swap...with street ported Atkins motor...JDM twins, and full M2 Stage 3 build up.

Until then, I'll just have to live with the bad turbo oil seals...

Indo Audio

That could be turbo SEAL failure, the turbo's are pushing oil with the boost to the engine, and causing it to smoke and get all over the housings and then back through the turbo and smoking. It has happened to one of my cars, just undo one of the boost tubes, and see if it is excessively oily.