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Trouble getting the car started after rebuild

Old 03-21-20 | 07:32 PM
  #176  
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I thought you were wearing a black nitrile glove - nope, that's just dirty!

I screwed up a LOT of stuff on my first rebuild. Big thing is you learn and move forward. It's always easiest just to pay someone to do it for you, but what's the fun in that?

I have a feeling you're going to be looking at some sort of bearing damage and possibly an oil pump that isn't functioning. Pull it apart, document it, and we'll be here to help.

Dale
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Old 03-22-20 | 04:46 PM
  #177  
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From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by DaleClark
I thought you were wearing a black nitrile glove - nope, that's just dirty!

I screwed up a LOT of stuff on my first rebuild. Big thing is you learn and move forward. It's always easiest just to pay someone to do it for you, but what's the fun in that?

I have a feeling you're going to be looking at some sort of bearing damage and possibly an oil pump that isn't functioning. Pull it apart, document it, and we'll be here to help.

Dale
You're sort of right! Someday I'll be able to show other people how that engine works I guess...

Alright! So my rebuilding diary begins.



I guess this could be normal.


Some sludge on the oil drain plug, no metal shavings (picture was taken after I washed it).


This is my main question now. I've got the Banzai oil pan brace. Do you guys think it could have been the "major oil leak" right there?


Old 03-22-20 | 05:32 PM
  #178  
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Was your oil pan flat? The brace will no fix a bent oil pan. That looks like a good chance for an oil leak for sure though.
I am interested to see what you find.
Old 03-22-20 | 10:09 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Red94fd
Was your oil pan flat? The brace will no fix a bent oil pan. That looks like a good chance for an oil leak for sure though.
I am interested to see what you find.
Oil pan was bent for sure, I have bent it when I took it off before (1st) rebuild (years ago).

I have read somewhere that the brace will fix a bent oil pan. Or did I?

Thanks for the interest, I bought 2 96" x 32" tables especially for the project this afternoon.

I'm already blocked, I need to buy a 54mm socket for the flywheel tomorrow.
Old 03-23-20 | 04:55 PM
  #180  
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I couldn't find a 54mm socket locally (throughout Canada). I'll try some more tomorrow. It is getting very difficult to order something from USA. I've got an address in NY but I cannot cross the border anymore... Now I think my project could be coming to a halt for a good while...
Old 03-23-20 | 05:10 PM
  #181  
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I'm not sure where you are specifically, but if you have a local heavy equipment shop, they might lend it to you. I once brought an engine to the local town's equipment maintenance facility (like where they maintain snow plow trucks), and they buzzed off the nut for me in a couple minutes.

Might be an option if you can't buy one.
Old 03-23-20 | 06:26 PM
  #182  
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Princess Auto will have them although Ontario is shutting down tomorrow at midnight.
Old 03-23-20 | 10:20 PM
  #183  
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From: Trois-Rivieres (QC)
Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
I'm not sure where you are specifically, but if you have a local heavy equipment shop, they might lend it to you. I once brought an engine to the local town's equipment maintenance facility (like where they maintain snow plow trucks), and they buzzed off the nut for me in a couple minutes.

Might be an option if you can't buy one.
There are some local heavy equipment shops, there's one called "Traction" that is supposed to call me back tomorrow. I HATE to borrow stuff, for sure I would prefer to buy the socket!

Originally Posted by Rotary Alkymist
Princess Auto will have them although Ontario is shutting down tomorrow at midnight.
You are right! There's a Princess Auto 90 miles away from home, but I'm not sure that it is going to be open tomorrow.

They've got a 2.125'' (54mm) x 1'' drive socket for $35 CAD shipped, however the breaker bar is $89.99 + shipping...

Mazdatrix got the tool for only $45 USD + shipping (takes way too long to ship from USA to Canada at the moment) and they say "During re-assembly, this tool will allow you to accurately re-torque the nut to the required 350 foot-pounds." I don't understand why they say that I can accurately re-torque the nut to the requires 350 ft-lbs with that tool. Is there something I don't get?


Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 03-23-20 at 10:23 PM.
Old 03-24-20 | 07:44 AM
  #184  
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I've been using a Craftsman 2 1/8" socket for YEARS. It has a step-down adapter, I think it's 1" drive and stepped down to 1/2". Used it COUNTLESS times on FC's and FD's with impact guns and by hand.

The torque spec on that nut really isn't that critical. You just get it as tight as you possibly can. I typically just hit it with the impact gun until it absolutely doesn't move any more. Never had a single problem.

Not sure why Mazdatrix says "accurately" - that will do the job but no accuracy there.

Dale
Old 03-24-20 | 08:24 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by MuRCieLaGo
..."During re-assembly, this tool will allow you to accurately re-torque the nut to the required 350 foot-pounds." I don't understand why they say that I can accurately re-torque the nut to the requires 350 ft-lbs with that tool. Is there something I don't get?...
I think what they're trying to say is that the bar is long enough that you can, with reasonable effort, apply enough torque to do the job properly.
Old 03-24-20 | 08:43 AM
  #186  
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If it's one foot long, all you need to do is put 350 lbs on the end of it - and there's your accuracy
Old 03-24-20 | 05:19 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by DaleClark
I've been using a Craftsman 2 1/8" socket for YEARS. It has a step-down adapter, I think it's 1" drive and stepped down to 1/2". Used it COUNTLESS times on FC's and FD's with impact guns and by hand.

The torque spec on that nut really isn't that critical. You just get it as tight as you possibly can. I typically just hit it with the impact gun until it absolutely doesn't move any more. Never had a single problem.

Not sure why Mazdatrix says "accurately" - that will do the job but no accuracy there.

Dale
That's very good to know there. So basically, I only need the damn socket. I'll just buy a reducer from 1'' to 1/2'' if needed!

Originally Posted by DaveW
I think what they're trying to say is that the bar is long enough that you can, with reasonable effort, apply enough torque to do the job properly.
I guess, but accurately I don't think so!

Originally Posted by TomU
If it's one foot long, all you need to do is put 350 lbs on the end of it - and there's your accuracy
Haha you are right... Simple maths there!
Old 03-24-20 | 08:57 PM
  #188  
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Old 03-26-20 | 02:20 PM
  #189  
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Well today I found a 55mm socket with 1/2'' drive. It does the job! But I can't take that nut off. I've got a 135 PSI compressor and it is too weak. I tried all kind of weird things to take it off, without any luck. I am alone and it makes things difficult. Now I'll have to order a flywheel stopper tool...
Old 03-26-20 | 02:36 PM
  #190  
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It helps, but you don't need a flywheel stopper (this is just one example). I used a 3 ft breaker bar to get mine loose



Last edited by TomU; 03-26-20 at 02:44 PM.
Old 03-26-20 | 02:40 PM
  #191  
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Typically the flywheel nut isn't too bad to remove, the 19mm front pulley nut is the REAL bitch to remove.

Old trick I've used to keep the engine from turning is to get a decent chain and 2 sacrificial bolts. Bolt one end of the chain to one of the holes in the flywheel the clutch bolts to and bolt the other end to one of the transmission bolt holes on the rear iron. This typically bends or goofs up the threads in the bolts so I don't recommend using the nice bolts that you want to actually use in the future.

May want to put a little heat on the flywheel nut too (torch) - they may have used a good amount of Loctite. Heat will break that free.

Worst case use a breaker bar/cheater pipe and break it loose. May have to have someone help steady the motor or something.

But, for me, typically the impact gun does the trick, takes a little bit from it but it will go.

Dale
Old 03-26-20 | 04:30 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by DaleClark
Typically the flywheel nut isn't too bad to remove, the 19mm front pulley nut is the REAL bitch to remove.

Old trick I've used to keep the engine from turning is to get a decent chain and 2 sacrificial bolts. Bolt one end of the chain to one of the holes in the flywheel the clutch bolts to and bolt the other end to one of the transmission bolt holes on the rear iron. This typically bends or goofs up the threads in the bolts so I don't recommend using the nice bolts that you want to actually use in the future.

May want to put a little heat on the flywheel nut too (torch) - they may have used a good amount of Loctite. Heat will break that free.

Worst case use a breaker bar/cheater pipe and break it loose. May have to have someone help steady the motor or something.

But, for me, typically the impact gun does the trick, takes a little bit from it but it will go.

Dale
I don't have access to heat... yet! Brand new garage with brand new tools here... I definitely managed to stop the flywheel from spinning. This problem is now solved.

Next problem is: the engine is way too light! the engine will spin as I put some force on the nut.

I don't have any friend to hold the engine down. Only way I am thinking: Maybe I should put a CAR on that engine. I've got an old 2006 Pontiac G6 and maybe I should use the engine as a jack stand. What do you think?

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 03-26-20 at 04:48 PM.
Old 03-26-20 | 05:20 PM
  #193  
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Hey bro... I know that feeling.. 300+ lbs is a lot of force applied with that bar and the engine will move and the last thing you want is brake something.
the car idea its too risky imo.
Old 03-26-20 | 05:40 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Red94fd
Hey bro... I know that feeling.. 300+ lbs is a lot of force applied with that bar and the engine will move and the last thing you want is brake something.
the car idea its too risky imo.
Yeah that's what I thought afterwards... I don't want to break that car to explode that engine neither.

I just found an awesome way! I strapped that engine on the engine hoist!

Now the next problem is: I AM TOO WEAK! I need a longer breaker bar. I don't think I am going to find one tonight.

Old 03-26-20 | 11:55 PM
  #195  
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Use one of those extendable legs from your hoist. Take the pin out and bam, you have a big 3foot bar haha.
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Old 03-27-20 | 12:55 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
Use one of those extendable legs from your hoist. Take the pin out and bam, you have a big 3foot bar haha.
I laughed so hard when I saw your message! I had to get out of bed and head into the garage to try it!

It works perfectly! I could even have kept both legs and use the "top part"!

Wow, that engine hoist is super useful.

Unfortunately as you can see the socket died.

Now I'm gonna think about 3 choices:
  1. Buy another socket 1/2'' (stronger quality).
  2. Buy another socket 3/4''.
  3. Get this socket welded to a 5 feet metal bar!


Old 03-27-20 | 08:55 AM
  #197  
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Chinese crap. I use impact sockets. 1/2 should be fine if it's a quality socket, but 3/4 is better if you can find it. Generally it's the wrench that breaks if it's too small, esp if you put a long handle on it (e.g. pipe)
Old 03-27-20 | 09:07 AM
  #198  
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That's a stamped/welded steel socket. I can see that thing stripping out!

The socket I've used for ages is a regular chrome vanadium socket like in a regular socket set, just 2 1/8" with a step-down adapter to 1/2". You used to be able to easily go to Sears and buy them but there's not many Sears around any more.

Dale
Old 03-27-20 | 10:22 AM
  #199  
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Being the cheap SOB I am, I'd machine or grind the opening to 3/4" square and then use a 3/4 to 1/2 adapter.
Old 03-27-20 | 10:51 AM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by TomU
Chinese crap. I use impact sockets. 1/2 should be fine if it's a quality socket, but 3/4 is better if you can find it. Generally it's the wrench that breaks if it's too small, esp if you put a long handle on it (e.g. pipe)
I just found a 2.125'' socket, 3/4'' drive. I'm gonna have to either buy an adapter or a breaker bar 3/4''. It will probably be the adapter. Chinese crap you said? Damn right. I paid $24 USD for it for a reason. The new one I've got was $37.

Originally Posted by DaleClark
That's a stamped/welded steel socket. I can see that thing stripping out!

The socket I've used for ages is a regular chrome vanadium socket like in a regular socket set, just 2 1/8" with a step-down adapter to 1/2". You used to be able to easily go to Sears and buy them but there's not many Sears around any more.

Dale
Sears Canada doesn't exist anymore since 2018! I really had to search to get these big sockets locally...

Originally Posted by DaveW
Being the cheap SOB I am, I'd machine or grind the opening to 3/4" square and then use a 3/4 to 1/2 adapter.
Not a bad idea! You got me thinking... Maybe I'll try to get it refunded and if they don't want to I'll keep it and try your idea instead of throwing it in the garbage.

Last edited by MuRCieLaGo; 03-27-20 at 11:09 AM.

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