mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

I just dug up the video from last year of my intercooler CO2 sprayer testing. Liquid CO2 in the airbox feeding the intercooler cools the cooling fins way down since it is doused with -82 degree F liquid. 40 seconds of this totally covering the intercooler face with a 120 degree fan billet aluminum sprayer and two 300 cfm SPAL pulling fans on the other side really does the trick. I just started my car last night for the first time after my 500 hour+ total rebuild. It started right up amazingly and I will start road testing in about one month after everything else is finished. I will post my road testing numbers after all the thermal management things I did are tested. I have a AIT sensor in the Autoexe airbox, an AIT sensor in the crossover pipe after the turbos, and the stock AIT sensor in the UIM. I will be able to tell what WMI on and off at the turbos does to the temperature post turbos, what the CO2 spraying does after the intercooler, what WMI does on and off after the intercooler. It should be interesting and may help others looking into bang for the buck thermal management.
Mike

Testrun

Looks awesome. Interested

Testrun

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I have started some data logging for temps off pfc. I have my dual air temps and oil temp and getting ready to instal. I will probably put a couple posts up on my build thread as it progresses. Not sure if anyone is even interested, but I am!! If I figure out something miraculous that has slipped by all the veterans I will post a separate thread (dont see that happening).

Thx is for everyone's help!!!

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

Update.

I have been road testing for several months now on the non-rainy weekends and have fixed several bugs and now I have done some logging to see the effects of my extensive thermal management revisions on my recent rebuild. For more details on the rebuild, see the previous posts in this thread. The numbers show some rather remarkable changes from my old setup to this one. First of all, during cruising on a 55F or 13C day, my intake temp at the stock AIT location with the fasting acting AIT sensor went from mildly heat soaked 33C to 27C after 10 minutes. I gained only 14C or 25F from outside ambient air. In conclusion, the ram air, piping, and dual-bank IC did well keeping my AIT rather cool and fairly steady.

The most amazing thing from my new setup is during moderate, steady sustained pedal pressure, boost and full boost or WOT (currently limited to 14psi until WMI is on line when fuel tuning complete). The outside ambient air ranged from 50F to 70F depending on the testing day. This is again a twin Hitachi SP KAI setup with the turbos, turbo heat shields, every manifold, the IC, and every intake and exhaust pipe ceramic coated either in barrier or dispersant. During every boost run, my AIT temperature never rose by more than 2C during the entire boost phase, even for long duration steady pedal pressure moderate boost runs. Most of the runs, the temperature either stayed steady or even actually dropped one or two degrees C. Think about that, the turbos are generating hotter and hotter air and my AIT was dropping in temperature! Many of you may say I am wrong and that cannot happen, but it did. Why? Because as the car is picking up speed, my intake air from my Abflug ram air bumper and direct-feed Autoexe air box(contains waterproof 500cfm puller fan), supplies the turbos with steady, rammed in, cool air at outside ambient temperature. The dual-bank ceramic coated SMIC, barrier outside, dispersant coated heat exchange core, is a highly efficient (91% efficient at low air speed) IC that cools down the charge air with ease. As the car speed increases, the ram air box that feeds the IC sends outside ambient air through the core with faster and faster air speed (helped by two Spal 300cfm puller fans on the back side), which increases the IC's efficiency or heat exchange even more. The really scaring thing will be when I start using my WMI with a 50-50 mixture pre turbo/post IC and my CO2 sprayer on my IC core. The IC air box has a fan-spray CO2 nozzle in it with a programmed button on my center console that will completely spray down the core of the IC with -82F liquid CO2 for 40 seconds that with my early testing dropped my post-IC charge air by over 50F. How low will the AIT go? CO2 IC spraying combined with the WMI could allow my AIT temps to drop to freezing or 0C or maybe even below freezing at full boost particularly on cooler winter days. Wow!

Mike

For those interested, I have attached several Power FC logs from a few days of testing with edited and non-edited boost and cruise runs. There are three aux readings, the first AFR, the next post-turbo/pre IC temp, and lastly EGT. I have a post turbo/pre IC temperature sensor in my Efini crossover pipe. This shows the temp of the charge air out of the turbos and clearly demonstrates the remarkable efficiency of my SMIC intercooler in cooling the charge air down. SMIC's can do an awesome job if designed right and when they are allowed to meet those ideals.

Testrun

This is incredible and thanks for sharing. I will let you know in a bit what I am designing for mine. It won't be as thorough as yours, but should be more than adequate. I will be stealing a few ideas for sure!

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Cool results. I'm a little skeptical of the intake puller fan. Don't think you could develop positive air pressure in front of the filter with a fan. Won't the intake just pull cool air from the nose and due to positive air pressure from driving, anyways?

With supercooled intake charge, are you worried about ice crystals forming from the water injection? What's the freezing point of water+meth? Or, what if you froze the throttle hung. I guess it could get weird. You must not be the first. Maybe theres a precedent.

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

I understand your skepticism, but I didn't add the puller fan with the purpose to actually ram in more air during driving, but instead to allow cooler air to continuously enter the Autoexec air box while the car is stopped at traffic lights, etc. during idle. I have two check values on the backside of the Autoexec on two unused ports that dump any unused air into the underhood area. This helps prevent heatsoak. The fan is also controlled by a PWM fan control that speeds up or slows down the fan if needed. I have it set to go off at 50F and on full at 75F, but can be adjusted easily with small set screws if needed. With speed, the air does ram directly into the Autoexe and I sealed the upper bumper with an aluminum custom plate that allows the upper bumper to pressurize to force air into the air box. The space between the hood and upper car frame is sealed by foam to help facilitate the pressurization. I also added small drainage holes with slit seals to allow water drainage in case of rain. Here is a picture of the Abflug bumper.



That is very interesting. Thanks for bringing it up. I never thought about it before, but you are right. This could be a problem. I doubt the piping and throttle body would allow any freezing of the water-meth since the metal is still quite hot. Also, the water-meth combination at 50-50 will not freeze since its freezing temp is quite low. Windshield wiper fluid is only 5% methanol- 95% water and will not freeze until less than -20 to -30F. The one thing this does bring up though, I could freeze shut the IC core from CO2 spraying for a while, if I am running the car on humid or raining days. Once the spraying stops, it probably would not be long until it melts from the heat. I will let you know how everything works after testing. Interesting note, every 10F drop in charge air temp is a 1.5-1.8% increase in HP. All of my thermal management mods could therefore decrease my charge air by 100F or more, which would increase my HP by 15-18% with no increase in boost.

Mike

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

I've experienced the same thing with my intake temps dropping during boost. Of course it's not the boost causing the temp to drop, but an increase in vehicle speed and mass of air going across the intercooler core. IMO that is a sign of a well ducted and well sized IC.

Last autocross I regularly saw the IAT drop by 10C or more during each of my 12 psi runs. I would start with a heat soaked IC from sitting in grid at 50C and it would come down to 40C or lower once I got moving. With the stock IC and every bit of ducting modification I could think of the IAT was better than bone stock, but still only ever went up.

I have an M2 medium with ducting extended into the bumper opening. It's probably getting 1/4-1/3 of the air flow coming into the stock 93 bumper opening.

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

I agree with your points about heatsoak. Most well-designed IC systems, like yours, can alleviate much of the heatsoak over a short period of time. My post was actually about the ability of my new setup to keep the charge temperature down after the heatsoak has been removed or even before heatsoak sets in. This is more of a steady state ability to remove the heat from the post-turbo charge air during boost. If you look at my post-turbo/pre-IC temps during boost, they would rise from 50-60C up to 110-120C or more yet the AIT temp never moved or even goes down. This shows the amazing extra capacity or increased efficiency of this system to remove the charge air heat. My system acts like a higher capacity single turbo rather than a twin turbo system when it comes to charge air temp at the AIT.
Mike

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

I hadn't looked at the logs...impressive and definitely some nice work on your part! That IAT is rock solid. If I get some time I have a dual thermocouple setup I could use to do a similar test and compare results . I would have thermocouples in the air box, post turbo, and then use the PFC to measure IAT in my Greddy elbow. Would be nice to see how an older setup like the M2 stacks up.

I have been loving my M2 setup and had to dial back max boost because the air is that much cooler that i was completely running out of injector.

How did you mount your IC fans?

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

On my old setup I used the plastic "stick-like" fasteners. I didn't like those. On this setup, I used the metal long pins with the rubber boots and the small metal locking clips. Since my fans are very close to my pulleys and belts, I also locked the metal clips down further with a little J-B Weld. Holding up so far.
Mike

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Cool results @mikejokich (no pun intended)
Got any pics?

mikejokich

iTrader: (1)

Engine bay, Australian dual bank U-type IC, Spal fans on IC (currently using metal anchor pins, not these), aluminum bumper divider for cool upper air, air deflector for help in ram air from Abflug bumper opening. Other pictures of the ceramic coatings are in my other posts on this thread from before.
Thanks
Mike

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

^ Badass!