Sub Frame movement and Camber Adjustment
09-05-08, 12:38 PM
#1
Sub Frame movement and Camber Adjustment
I just had my FD aligned yesterday, and the most camber available on the right front was 1.7 degrees, while the left front would easily go past 3 degrees.
While it was in the in air I took a look at the subframe, and it appeared to be offset slightly to the left side, as the gap between the outside edge of the subframe and the frame rail was slightly larger on the right side than on the left.
Is it possible that there is a bit of wiggle room when tightening up the subframe? Could it be pushed to one side or the other a bit? If so I will drop it when I replace the bushings and try to adjust it.
The subframe has been dropped 3 times in the past for oil pan issues, which is why I ask - it may have moved to one side when tightened.
The car is lowered quite a bit, and normally you should not be able to get 3 degrees of camber with stock control arms.
Or am I just unlucky, and the car was within factory specs, and I will need aftermarket control arms to get more camber?
We examined the control arms and frame - nothing appeared to be bent or out of the ordinary.
Please don't degrade this thread into a discussion of what camber should be set to. It's an SM2 autox car, not a street car.
I just need to determine how to ultimately solve the camber issue.
While it was in the in air I took a look at the subframe, and it appeared to be offset slightly to the left side, as the gap between the outside edge of the subframe and the frame rail was slightly larger on the right side than on the left.
Is it possible that there is a bit of wiggle room when tightening up the subframe? Could it be pushed to one side or the other a bit? If so I will drop it when I replace the bushings and try to adjust it.
The subframe has been dropped 3 times in the past for oil pan issues, which is why I ask - it may have moved to one side when tightened.
The car is lowered quite a bit, and normally you should not be able to get 3 degrees of camber with stock control arms.
Or am I just unlucky, and the car was within factory specs, and I will need aftermarket control arms to get more camber?
We examined the control arms and frame - nothing appeared to be bent or out of the ordinary.
Please don't degrade this thread into a discussion of what camber should be set to. It's an SM2 autox car, not a street car.
I just need to determine how to ultimately solve the camber issue.
12-07-18, 10:07 AM
#3
I just had my FD aligned yesterday, and the most camber available on the right front was 1.7 degrees, while the left front would easily go past 3 degrees.
While it was in the in air I took a look at the subframe, and it appeared to be offset slightly to the left side, as the gap between the outside edge of the subframe and the frame rail was slightly larger on the right side than on the left.
Is it possible that there is a bit of wiggle room when tightening up the subframe? Could it be pushed to one side or the other a bit? If so I will drop it when I replace the bushings and try to adjust it.
The subframe has been dropped 3 times in the past for oil pan issues, which is why I ask - it may have moved to one side when tightened.
The car is lowered quite a bit, and normally you should not be able to get 3 degrees of camber with stock control arms.
Or am I just unlucky, and the car was within factory specs, and I will need aftermarket control arms to get more camber?
We examined the control arms and frame - nothing appeared to be bent or out of the ordinary.
Please don't degrade this thread into a discussion of what camber should be set to. It's an SM2 autox car, not a street car.
I just need to determine how to ultimately solve the camber issue.
While it was in the in air I took a look at the subframe, and it appeared to be offset slightly to the left side, as the gap between the outside edge of the subframe and the frame rail was slightly larger on the right side than on the left.
Is it possible that there is a bit of wiggle room when tightening up the subframe? Could it be pushed to one side or the other a bit? If so I will drop it when I replace the bushings and try to adjust it.
The subframe has been dropped 3 times in the past for oil pan issues, which is why I ask - it may have moved to one side when tightened.
The car is lowered quite a bit, and normally you should not be able to get 3 degrees of camber with stock control arms.
Or am I just unlucky, and the car was within factory specs, and I will need aftermarket control arms to get more camber?
We examined the control arms and frame - nothing appeared to be bent or out of the ordinary.
Please don't degrade this thread into a discussion of what camber should be set to. It's an SM2 autox car, not a street car.
I just need to determine how to ultimately solve the camber issue.
I recently had my subframe out and bolted it back on. Afterwards, my alignment mechanic told me that the subframe was shifted which limited my alignment specs.
Did you find a good way to center the subframe?
So far the options i see are:
- Measure to center before torquing
- Use expensive subframe collars to fit well
My stock subframe rubber collar pieces are actually somewhat torn. This would allow extra alignment. I am not sure why these pieces are rubber and if they do anything other than align the bolt while torquing. Afterwards, they may be useless meaning that a collar would only help with aligning.
Previous collar discussion:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-955773/page2/
12-07-18, 10:31 AM
#4
Wow, only 10 years for a meaningful reply 
What I did to deal with the alignment issue is make offset bushings for the upper control arms.
Doing so allowed an increase in both camber and caster, with camber at just about -3.0 for each side, and +6 caster.
What I did to deal with the alignment issue is make offset bushings for the upper control arms.
Doing so allowed an increase in both camber and caster, with camber at just about -3.0 for each side, and +6 caster.
12-07-18, 10:55 AM
#6
Similar, but not quite the same. I don't like having the offset hole in the steel insert.
This thread by Kevin Doe.
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...-941277/page2/
My bushings are toward the end.
This thread by Kevin Doe.
https://www.rx7club.com/suspension-w...-941277/page2/
My bushings are toward the end.
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12-07-18, 12:51 PM
#9
The easy button.
https://www.rhdjapan.com/re-amemiya-...ront-fd3s.html
If you don't want to use the $200 subframe collars to center the subframe and keep them from shifting you could venture into D.I.Y. land.
I haven't done this for the front subframe, but I do use this technique for making my intake and exhaust flanges line up much closer so I can port match to a higher degree of accuracy.
Bring the subframe hardware or same sized hardware to the hardware store and find the metal tube/sheet display and a tubing cutter.
FInd a softer metal tube (Aluminum, Copper, Brass) that just slips over the hardware.
Bring it home and see how it fits in the subframe holes for the hardware. Too big diameter? cut a length longer than required and chuck it up in a hand drill and use abrasive or a file on the outside to thin it (concentrating on the front edge as that is often what hangs up).
Cut the tube to the proper length once it is a tight fit in the subframe holes.
Repeat for the other holes.
Try to put subframe on with your D.I.Y. sleeves between the hardware and subframe.
Might not line up, might not line up easily.
You can remove the number of sleeves till you get it to line up, you can try to force the other sleeves in after if you dare.
You could potentially strip the threads in the chassis or break the welds on the threaded inserts.
Your D.I.Y. sleeves won't have the flat portion that ensures proper contact between the subframe and unibody by distorting so you may have gaps which can cause stressed bolts in use.
You will likely learn why $200 isn't such a bad price for a well engineered solution and curse yourself for not buying them in the first place.
When you spend $200 on these bits of Aluminum you are paying for the development cost and the cost of bringing and keeping them on the market as well as making the consumer aware of them.
Its $200; Please support the vendors that support ongoing development of performance parts for our 27 year old car and pit it against the latest cars in competition.
The tuning industry and culture is dying in Japan. Are the kohai going to continue these businesses when the sensei retire? We know it takes passion and money.
https://www.rhdjapan.com/re-amemiya-...ront-fd3s.html
If you don't want to use the $200 subframe collars to center the subframe and keep them from shifting you could venture into D.I.Y. land.
I haven't done this for the front subframe, but I do use this technique for making my intake and exhaust flanges line up much closer so I can port match to a higher degree of accuracy.
Bring the subframe hardware or same sized hardware to the hardware store and find the metal tube/sheet display and a tubing cutter.
FInd a softer metal tube (Aluminum, Copper, Brass) that just slips over the hardware.
Bring it home and see how it fits in the subframe holes for the hardware. Too big diameter? cut a length longer than required and chuck it up in a hand drill and use abrasive or a file on the outside to thin it (concentrating on the front edge as that is often what hangs up).
Cut the tube to the proper length once it is a tight fit in the subframe holes.
Repeat for the other holes.
Try to put subframe on with your D.I.Y. sleeves between the hardware and subframe.
Might not line up, might not line up easily.
You can remove the number of sleeves till you get it to line up, you can try to force the other sleeves in after if you dare.
You could potentially strip the threads in the chassis or break the welds on the threaded inserts.
Your D.I.Y. sleeves won't have the flat portion that ensures proper contact between the subframe and unibody by distorting so you may have gaps which can cause stressed bolts in use.
You will likely learn why $200 isn't such a bad price for a well engineered solution and curse yourself for not buying them in the first place.
When you spend $200 on these bits of Aluminum you are paying for the development cost and the cost of bringing and keeping them on the market as well as making the consumer aware of them.
Its $200; Please support the vendors that support ongoing development of performance parts for our 27 year old car and pit it against the latest cars in competition.
The tuning industry and culture is dying in Japan. Are the kohai going to continue these businesses when the sensei retire? We know it takes passion and money.
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