dawggpie

iTrader: (4)

Having an issue with the starter circuit on my car that I'm having a hard time figuring out. When I turn the key to the starter position it seems like something is shorting out. For a couple days it would periodically start, now it won't start at all. I do hear the starter relay click (or something's clicking), but I'm pretty sure it's not the "click, click, start" low voltage issue. I had that issue in the past and added the relay circuit similar to the pettit relay to fix that. Now after i try to start it there are a couple symptoms that lead me to think something is shorting.

1) I held the key in start position for a while (no movement from the starter motor) and afterwards noticed that the battery negative terminal was super hot. This doesn't seem right.
2) After releasing the key from the start position the car seems to be in some low voltage, possibly shorting, state. The interior lights will be barely on, my stereo will reset (as if power had been completely unplugged from it).

Usually after a couple seconds power will return to normal. ie lights/stereo will come back on.

The battery is fine. I installed a new one thinking that the original as dying on me.
The car runs fine once started, based on the couple times I was able to get it started.
I've replaced the ignition switch already (the white do-dad that's opposite the key hole).
I checked for 12v on the starter solenoid post. That's fine.
I checked for 12v on the 3rd starter solenoid post (the smaller trigger input) while I had someone turn the key to start, but didn't see 12v there.
Fans run fine when the key is in the ACC1 position.
The car has an aftermarket alarm wired in. Possibly someone has gone wrong with that?

Any ideas? Thanks.

Brodie121

iTrader: (8)

Aftermarket alarm is definitely not helping.

Are you sure the starter is good?

Try hitting it with a hammer a few times, seriously.

Sounds more like a bad starter to me.

dawggpie

iTrader: (4)

Trying to debug it a bit more now. I'm noticing that even in the acc1/2 positions sometimes the car seems to be in this low voltage state, but it happens after attempting to start the car. Ie if I turn the car to acc2 everything is fine, I can hear the fuel pump. Then I turn to start and I just hear a click. Then back in acc2 position the lights are all dimmed and my electronics aren't working. If I turn the key back to off position and then back to acc1/2 the electronics seem fine again.

SA3R

Holding the key on cranking position for "a period of time" when nothing is happening at the starter (not cranking over) is incredibly hard on the car's wiring- hence the battery post heated up. Things are frying.

Your starter solenoid is worn and not throwing out/engaging, and you holding the key is creating a hugely damaging, high current short across the solenoid, and it would be heating up not only the battery post but the start wiring circuit, key barrel contacts, etc with huge amps of load it was not designed to take.

DONT do this anymore or you may be replacing a lot more than just a dead starter solenoid. You may melt the main wiring harness if you hold the key like that when there is a hard fault. Things may already be on the verge of damage as you mentioned some accessories like radio, lights etc acting weirdly intermittently. I don't blame them after doing that. Holding the key is putting huge amperage loads and heat on wires that were not supposed to take it, and I'm surprised the main fuse by the battery did not blow, or something smoke up from the load.

Likely what's happened is the starter solenoid has died or frozen up and Brodie is right- usually when the solenoids die or begin to die, you take a hammer and tap/whack the solenoid body with the wooden end of the hammer to try and free it up internally. This trick applies to many cars not just the FD, as they all have similar solenoids and they can all give solenoid trouble at some stage. The ultimate fix is pull the starter motor out and have it reconditioned or replace it.

connor.

iTrader: (3)

My car has the same problem, I've looked into everything and still nothing. One day I decided to take off the starter and take it apart. It turns out that the brushes in the starter motor were 100% worn down. I ordered the brushes that were like 10$ instead of buying a 120$ starter.


Unfortunately I have not installed it because I had to go back to california and its in oregon. I am sure that will fix it tho.

It takes like 10 min to get the starter off. and another 10 min to open it up.

rx7+8=nice

iTrader: (1)

My Fd does the same thing except only when it's hot! First start up is perfect but after it gets warm and I try to restart it it does the click click, I've replaced the alternator thinking it was bad alt. I would also like to say that ever since I've te routed my battery to the rear bin and running the power direct to the starter it's been doing this and when I leave battery connected it drains the battery I'm guessing it also has to do with bad ground cable, I've heard u need to ground it direct to the tranny bolt for best ground and it's grounded to the chassis. Any ideas??

connor.

iTrader: (3)

Ya, I didn't mention that at first it wouldnt start after it was warmed up. just check the starter. It might be worn down enough that the heat soak could be affecting it.

rx7+8=nice

iTrader: (1)

Where u get the brushes??

connor.

iTrader: (3)

WALMART!!! haha

part no. ACDelco E720A

they are like $7.50 I just looked.

rx7+8=nice

iTrader: (1)

Jaja thanks I'm going to look into it this weekend!!

connor.

iTrader: (3)

No matter where you get one it'll have to be a online order. I called every parts store around and not one store carries those in stock.

dawggpie

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the input.

It seems like the heating of the battery terminal is occurring when the key has been released from the starter position and is back in the acc1/2 position and the car is in its "shorted" state. Typically I won't hold the key in the start position for more than 2-3 seconds. In this "shorted" state, the dome lights are dimmed and certain acc items like the stereo and my gauges won't power up... I think because the voltage level is being driven down by the short. Maybe the low voltage from the short is causing the starter relay to stop responding and stay in the on state? Turning the key back to off always causes the electronics to return to their proper state.

After reading all the posts I could find on here, I'm thinking the problem might be due to a bad ground. Although it's strange that the car seems to start consistently after the battery has been disconnected and reconnected. It's possibly that a bad ground is heating up, causing more resistance and causing the ground to become even worse.

The starter on the car is pretty new, couple thousand miles on it. The starter motor runs fine once triggered properly. I went ahead and replaced the starter solenoid just in case, but that didn't solve the issue.

dawggpie

iTrader: (4)

Another great afternoon spent trying to figure this out. I tested the starter solenoid by triggering it by applying 12v to the trigger input. This causes it to immediately pop into place. Should this also cause the starter motor the start turning? There was no movement from the starter motor. I then tried to trigger the start motor manually by applying 12v to the lead coming out of it that goes to the starter solenoid. I'm not sure this is the right way to trigger it, but nothing happened when I applied the 12v aside from a smaller spark. I can't think of any other way to trigger it.

dawggpie

iTrader: (4)

I'm a dumbass... negative terminal screws that connect the negative wire to the negative terminal loop were loose and all gunked up. Cleaned it and tightened it down and everything is good to go. I checked the wire originally, but I guess I didn't tug on it hard enough to notice that it was somewhat loose. meh