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Should I buy this FD? '94 PEP low miles but...
09-06-13, 06:24 PM
#1
Should I buy this FD? '94 PEP low miles but...
***this thread will be updated as I know more***
hello members of my favorite forum,
background:
so I am (maybe) buying an out of state FD. it has very low miles (<44k). owner doesn't know much about rotaries. '94 SSM PEP.
Car has HKS DP, MP, CB and Apexi intake, with stock ECU and knockoff BOV.
Had owner take it to the only shop near him with rotary experience.
(quotes mean summarized mechanic's words)
goods:
--good paint
--excellent interior---"looks like 40 thousand miles"
-- "frame is fine car drives straight"; was in minor accident. replica OEM bumper that sags
--"compression SEEMS to be over 100psi based on how it felt" but they will do the actual test tomorrow
problems they found:
--secondary turbo starts making noises around 2500rpm "definitely will need replacing", owner of the car says he never noticed that
--after driving it to OT and a little acceleration, oil pressure dropped drastically according to stock gauge. they will re-test with a mechanical one tomorrow. "if the pump is bad you could need a rebuild soon, even if compression is good, because the motor's bearings wouldn't be getting enough oil and will go out" (seems like truth, is it?)
--car seems to be running lean: has high exhaust temperatures "80-100degrees higher than they should be", rough idle, etc "could be a clogged injector"
--jumps to 3000rpm start up when cold, but i've determined this to be the AWS (right?)--owner says he taps the gas a little and it goes back to normal.
--swollen tube under radiator with strange seeming around it "looks like sealant".
--little vibration in the tranny but shifts fine without grinding.
Questions for you guys:
1) I eventually will upgrade to a Koyo rad. If they did use sealant in the radiator, any chance of that having a negative effect on the rest of the cooling system (i.e., internal seals etc) ?
2) IF the oil pressure is actually dropping, is that as catastrophic a problem as they describe ("1500$ job to fix the damages caused by lack of oil")
3) If its a clogged injector causing the lean issue, then I assume that isn't such a hard fix. Between that, and getting a powerFC, would it be a non-issue then?
4) If the turbo is the only thing that NEEDS replacing (and an upgraded ECU), how much would you all pay for the car? Given its a '94 PEP, excellent interior, minor cosmetic collision, low miles..
they will give me a complete write up and pictures/video tomorrow.
Mechanic told me if the compression is >110 then he'd pay no more than $12,000 given everything, 100psi or lower than no more than 8500$.
owner says he still owes 13,900$ on the car, and PRIOR to me having it inspected, wouldn't budge from that.
ANY AND ALL INPUT APPRECIATED!
Thank you!
(front bumper fitment picture attached)
hello members of my favorite forum,
background:
so I am (maybe) buying an out of state FD. it has very low miles (<44k). owner doesn't know much about rotaries. '94 SSM PEP.
Car has HKS DP, MP, CB and Apexi intake, with stock ECU and knockoff BOV.
Had owner take it to the only shop near him with rotary experience.
(quotes mean summarized mechanic's words)
goods:
--good paint
--excellent interior---"looks like 40 thousand miles"
-- "frame is fine car drives straight"; was in minor accident. replica OEM bumper that sags
--"compression SEEMS to be over 100psi based on how it felt" but they will do the actual test tomorrow
problems they found:
--secondary turbo starts making noises around 2500rpm "definitely will need replacing", owner of the car says he never noticed that
--after driving it to OT and a little acceleration, oil pressure dropped drastically according to stock gauge. they will re-test with a mechanical one tomorrow. "if the pump is bad you could need a rebuild soon, even if compression is good, because the motor's bearings wouldn't be getting enough oil and will go out" (seems like truth, is it?)
--car seems to be running lean: has high exhaust temperatures "80-100degrees higher than they should be", rough idle, etc "could be a clogged injector"
--jumps to 3000rpm start up when cold, but i've determined this to be the AWS (right?)--owner says he taps the gas a little and it goes back to normal.
--swollen tube under radiator with strange seeming around it "looks like sealant".
--little vibration in the tranny but shifts fine without grinding.
Questions for you guys:
1) I eventually will upgrade to a Koyo rad. If they did use sealant in the radiator, any chance of that having a negative effect on the rest of the cooling system (i.e., internal seals etc) ?
2) IF the oil pressure is actually dropping, is that as catastrophic a problem as they describe ("1500$ job to fix the damages caused by lack of oil")
3) If its a clogged injector causing the lean issue, then I assume that isn't such a hard fix. Between that, and getting a powerFC, would it be a non-issue then?
4) If the turbo is the only thing that NEEDS replacing (and an upgraded ECU), how much would you all pay for the car? Given its a '94 PEP, excellent interior, minor cosmetic collision, low miles..
they will give me a complete write up and pictures/video tomorrow.
Mechanic told me if the compression is >110 then he'd pay no more than $12,000 given everything, 100psi or lower than no more than 8500$.
owner says he still owes 13,900$ on the car, and PRIOR to me having it inspected, wouldn't budge from that.
ANY AND ALL INPUT APPRECIATED!
Thank you!
(front bumper fitment picture attached)
Last edited by 00SPEC; 09-06-13 at 06:31 PM.
09-06-13, 06:35 PM
#2
First if all the car running an intake and full exhaust on it with a stock ECU is the reason it has a lean fuel issue. Any actual experienced shop would strongly suggest getting a PFC and tune before they blow the motor.
Personally I wouldn't buy it knowing its been run that way. Not unless you have big plans to overhaul it.
And my luck buying FD's sight unseen is poor at best.
Just the fact it's been glued and patched up, half *** modded etc it seems the guy didn't have money to keep the car up, had no clue what the hell he was doing and u will likely find yourself with a basket case.
Run away. He could have also cranked up the idle to keep a broke motor running. So many better cars out there then this.
Personally I wouldn't buy it knowing its been run that way. Not unless you have big plans to overhaul it.
And my luck buying FD's sight unseen is poor at best.
Just the fact it's been glued and patched up, half *** modded etc it seems the guy didn't have money to keep the car up, had no clue what the hell he was doing and u will likely find yourself with a basket case.
Run away. He could have also cranked up the idle to keep a broke motor running. So many better cars out there then this.
09-06-13, 06:52 PM
#3
yes, shop did advise for PFC immediately, and did say the high temps are likely caused by mods, but still seemed high for that.
This guy did not mod the car---from history, it looks like original owner kept it stock, sold it(26k miles) to a dude who did exhaust/intake and had the minor accident, repaired it cheaply, and then current owner bought it (says he only put 900mi on it).
I actually had a previous post about the mods/ECU issue and:
This guy did not mod the car---from history, it looks like original owner kept it stock, sold it(26k miles) to a dude who did exhaust/intake and had the minor accident, repaired it cheaply, and then current owner bought it (says he only put 900mi on it).
I actually had a previous post about the mods/ECU issue and:
You have that backwards. A stock ECU is what has saved this car in the hands of this uninformed owner. As previously stated it cuts fuel on boost over factory 10psi and has functioning knock control.
Not to be pessimistic, but the uninformed owner is much more likely to blow the engine with a Power FC.
Not to be pessimistic, but the uninformed owner is much more likely to blow the engine with a Power FC.
09-06-13, 07:33 PM
#4
Trust me when I tell you there is a pile miles high of trashed motors done from this very thing. And the base map in a PFC already adds enough fuel for those mods.
Possibly not the boost creep associated with the use of a mid pipe but its no worse then a stock ECU and easily safer.
But don't take my word for it. I've only owned FD's since 1999
I am guessing you came here cause you wanted an answer that made you feel better about purchasing it?
Then go for it. But the facts are what they are. These cars have been popping motors since new when customers were doing exactly what your seller has done.
Possibly not the boost creep associated with the use of a mid pipe but its no worse then a stock ECU and easily safer.
But don't take my word for it. I've only owned FD's since 1999
I am guessing you came here cause you wanted an answer that made you feel better about purchasing it?
Then go for it. But the facts are what they are. These cars have been popping motors since new when customers were doing exactly what your seller has done.
09-06-13, 07:43 PM
#5
I dont think the shop is a rotary shop, or knows much of anything about rotary engines.
How can the car seem to have low compression with out actually checking it????
How can the secondary turbo start making noise at 2500 rpm when it doesnt even kick in until 4500 rpm????
Pay to have the car checked out at a rotary specialty shop. Hopefully there is one near the car's location.
How can the car seem to have low compression with out actually checking it????
How can the secondary turbo start making noise at 2500 rpm when it doesnt even kick in until 4500 rpm????
Pay to have the car checked out at a rotary specialty shop. Hopefully there is one near the car's location.
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09-06-13, 09:03 PM
#8
bad guess, i was simply elaborating. We can both share thoughts
09-06-13, 09:35 PM
#9
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That shop certainly isn't doing the seller any favors LOL
The aftermarket oem look bumper and previous accident history/paint work etc.... would have me walking at any price over 12k.
Getting 13,900 won't be easy unless it's a really solid car and based upon the mechanics thoughts it's not mechanically sound.
As some others have said adding an intake and exhaust with no boost control is a recipe for detonation or engine damage and the car doesn't feel good because the compression is high it's because it's running lean
The aftermarket oem look bumper and previous accident history/paint work etc.... would have me walking at any price over 12k.
Getting 13,900 won't be easy unless it's a really solid car and based upon the mechanics thoughts it's not mechanically sound.
As some others have said adding an intake and exhaust with no boost control is a recipe for detonation or engine damage and the car doesn't feel good because the compression is high it's because it's running lean
09-06-13, 09:40 PM
#10
I have bought a lot of rotaries without compression test. Probably not the best way but I have never bought one with a bad engine. Except one that I knew was bad.
I don't buy them without proof of maintenance or from non rotary guys. I don't buy modified cars.
I would not buy an fd with bad paint or one that has been wrecked. But I don't drive them daily and I take good care of them. Everyone is different.
I would not buy this car. I would save my money and find the color I wanted with a little lower miles. There are a lot of nice fds out there. You have to be patient. my 2cents
I don't buy them without proof of maintenance or from non rotary guys. I don't buy modified cars.
I would not buy an fd with bad paint or one that has been wrecked. But I don't drive them daily and I take good care of them. Everyone is different.
I would not buy this car. I would save my money and find the color I wanted with a little lower miles. There are a lot of nice fds out there. You have to be patient. my 2cents
09-06-13, 09:52 PM
#11
Thank you for all of the replies so far!
Them: "it makes a grinding noise, both spool at low rpm except most of the exhaust is directed towards the primary until transition time.. secondary spools but doesnt begin building boost pressure until around 3800."
seems to be consistent with
http://davidgeesaman.com/rx7/TwinTurbo.PDF
Me: I see, I just thought 2500 would be too low to tell anything from the second.
them: "when I rev it using the throttle cable with the hood open, it is barely moving at low rpm, but it[the secondary turbo] sounds ugly at around 2000. The owner of the shop thought it was the air pump at first, but I've heard this before, and you can hear it from the air filter really bad. And that grinding noise at such low RPMs tells me the bearings are really worn"
seems to be consistent with
http://davidgeesaman.com/rx7/TwinTurbo.PDF
Me: I see, I just thought 2500 would be too low to tell anything from the second.
them: "when I rev it using the throttle cable with the hood open, it is barely moving at low rpm, but it[the secondary turbo] sounds ugly at around 2000. The owner of the shop thought it was the air pump at first, but I've heard this before, and you can hear it from the air filter really bad. And that grinding noise at such low RPMs tells me the bearings are really worn"
09-06-13, 10:06 PM
#12
All out Track Freak!
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I have bought a lot of rotaries without compression test. Probably not the best way but I have never bought one with a bad engine. Except one that I knew was bad.
I don't buy them without proof of maintenance or from non rotary guys. I don't buy modified cars.
I would not buy an fd with bad paint or one that has been wrecked. But I don't drive them daily and I take good care of them. Everyone is different.
I would not buy this car. I would save my money and find the color I wanted with a little lower miles. There are a lot of nice fds out there. You have to be patient. my 2cents
I don't buy them without proof of maintenance or from non rotary guys. I don't buy modified cars.
I would not buy an fd with bad paint or one that has been wrecked. But I don't drive them daily and I take good care of them. Everyone is different.
I would not buy this car. I would save my money and find the color I wanted with a little lower miles. There are a lot of nice fds out there. You have to be patient. my 2cents
Best compression test is a fully warmed up engine idling smooth at 750 rpms look at the vacc and it should be 15 inches or more then drive the hell out of it for 20 minutes let it sit and idle for 5 minutes. Shut it down and come back 10 minutes later and it should crank right up and idle smoothly. If it passes this test there's a good chance it's a solid engine.
09-06-13, 10:24 PM
#13
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Seems pricey with everything you mentioned about it ... bought mine from original owner probablly payed more then I should but it was clean rebuild turbos ...original motor with 85k..
I had money saved just for repairs and reliability mods ...
Just make sure your ready for the commitment and anything the car might throw at ya
I had money saved just for repairs and reliability mods ...
Just make sure your ready for the commitment and anything the car might throw at ya
09-07-13, 12:29 AM
#14
Seems pricey with everything you mentioned about it ... bought mine from original owner probablly payed more then I should but it was clean rebuild turbos ...original motor with 85k..
I had money saved just for repairs and reliability mods ...
Just make sure your ready for the commitment and anything the car might throw at ya
I had money saved just for repairs and reliability mods ...
Just make sure your ready for the commitment and anything the car might throw at ya
Indeed...
Well you guys pretty much summed it up and I think I know where I stand now...
He'll have to come down much on the price, otherwise, I don't mind waiting.
There just seems to be NOTHING low mileage for sale near me unless I want to pay 25 grand and drive up to portland. was really hoping for this one but will not be BESTED by temptation!!
Thank you, will still update with the final word from the shop.
09-07-13, 09:51 AM
#15
Compression test are over rated.
Best compression test is a fully warmed up engine idling smooth at 750 rpms look at the vacc and it should be 15 inches or more then drive the hell out of it for 20 minutes let it sit and idle for 5 minutes. Shut it down and come back 10 minutes later and it should crank right up and idle smoothly. If it passes this test there's a good chance it's a solid engine.
Best compression test is a fully warmed up engine idling smooth at 750 rpms look at the vacc and it should be 15 inches or more then drive the hell out of it for 20 minutes let it sit and idle for 5 minutes. Shut it down and come back 10 minutes later and it should crank right up and idle smoothly. If it passes this test there's a good chance it's a solid engine.