Which premix are you guys using???
03-05-08, 09:56 AM
#52
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03-05-08, 03:15 PM
#54
Having go-kart racing expierence I can say that 1:50 ratio was getting dangerous in those 2 stroke engines. 1Oz per gallon seem to be least that can be done without OMP.
I also not sure about dillution. Right way to premix would be to mix oil in 1 gallon very good and then pour this gallon while fueling up. Which does make process messy and smelly.
Just putting quart of oil into tank before fueling wouldn't do much IMO. It will take good amount of agressive driving/cornering to mix it a little.
I also not sure about dillution. Right way to premix would be to mix oil in 1 gallon very good and then pour this gallon while fueling up. Which does make process messy and smelly.
Just putting quart of oil into tank before fueling wouldn't do much IMO. It will take good amount of agressive driving/cornering to mix it a little.
03-05-08, 04:41 PM
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again, the mix ratio for a two stroke engine application has NOTHING to do with this, other than the fact some use a similar type of oil
03-05-08, 05:37 PM
#56
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Here are some usage results from my car runing a modded OMP and external tank. The car overall with some mild cruzing and some hard running uses around 5 to 6 oz. per tankfull of gas. No premix! I suck at math, but on the high usage of 6oz I figured a ratio of 384:1 of course the omp is off at idle and decelleration I believe and really kicks it up under full boost. So inorder to cover all conditions a premix only would be much higher and in addition to the omp your safe guess is as good as mine?
03-06-08, 12:50 PM
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I went ahead and called Idemitsu today (talked to a guy named Scott Shiotsu) and he said the premix fuel lube ratio was originally intended for non street cars with the OMP deleted to save weight, and also because pre-mix provides more consistent and uniform lubrication of engine internals than the OMP injection ports, which only target certain areas
he was quick to add that many racers use higher ratios, especially for high horsepower (i.e. 400-500 hp) applications, but it's not based on anything scientific
I guess my thought is, with higher horsepower applications, you are also pumping a heck of alot more fuel through the engine per given time increment, so you are effectively increasing the oil dosage
anyway, I'm sticking with 1/2 oz per gallon
he was quick to add that many racers use higher ratios, especially for high horsepower (i.e. 400-500 hp) applications, but it's not based on anything scientific
I guess my thought is, with higher horsepower applications, you are also pumping a heck of alot more fuel through the engine per given time increment, so you are effectively increasing the oil dosage
anyway, I'm sticking with 1/2 oz per gallon
03-06-08, 02:03 PM
#63
^You do that.
I'll follow the recommendation of people from Rotary Power, Mazdatrix, Pettit Racing and Racing Beat who have been in this game for longer than my 22 years - 1 oz per Gallon when the factory OMP is not being used.
When refueling, add the premix first so that you get maximum dispersion/mixing.
I always estimate how many gallons I am going to add, add the premix, and fuel up with that many gallons. I usually don't fill my tank as the car isn't daily driven. When I'm filling up, I often wind up adding a couple of ounces after fill up if my original estimate was not sufficient.
I'll follow the recommendation of people from Rotary Power, Mazdatrix, Pettit Racing and Racing Beat who have been in this game for longer than my 22 years - 1 oz per Gallon when the factory OMP is not being used.
When refueling, add the premix first so that you get maximum dispersion/mixing.
I always estimate how many gallons I am going to add, add the premix, and fuel up with that many gallons. I usually don't fill my tank as the car isn't daily driven. When I'm filling up, I often wind up adding a couple of ounces after fill up if my original estimate was not sufficient.
03-06-08, 02:22 PM
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I DD my car, and have never used premix. Is this something I should do in a DD? I know Rich had mentioned that he still has his OMP connectd, so I would image it is okay, but I was just wondering if there are any long term ill effects.
03-06-08, 02:55 PM
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and before all those guys, people were running 1/2 oz per gallon, see link on previous page
When refueling, add the premix first so that you get maximum dispersion/mixing.
03-06-08, 02:58 PM
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if you run the OMP you should be fine, but bear in mind four stroke oil was never intended to burn, it's really the wrong tool for the job...Mazda compromised because a separate oil chamber or pre-mix wasn't going to fly
03-06-08, 09:08 PM
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Hey all I need to know if it is recommended that I premix. I have a single turbo setup with all supporting mods and its a daily driver as well as weekend warrior.I still have the omp and it works but being a fresh rebuild at 400hp I want to be safe.
03-06-08, 09:42 PM
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Why not just keep the OMP and use the Rotary Aviation adapter and run an external reservoir? I realize this is not an option for some who use aftermarket ECUs; but it lets you just dump the premix into a reservoir and the OMP does all the work.
I have been running my engine with the adapter for quite some time now, with Idemitsu premix in the reservoir and it works great.
-Dan
I have been running my engine with the adapter for quite some time now, with Idemitsu premix in the reservoir and it works great.
-Dan
03-06-08, 09:51 PM
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wrong, you put some gas in the container, whether that is a gas tank or a 6 gallon jug, first to accelerate solubilization and improve mixing, why pour it all in first so it sits on the bottom? illogical[/QUOTE]
If you put the premix in first, you already have some gas in the tank as it will never be totally empty and thus it will already start the mixing process as you swipe you card, select your grade, etc. Then, when you are pouring gas into you tank at the rate of 2 to 3 gallons per minute (which is a pretty good flow plus the dropping action of the gas splashing and swirling into the tank). You end up getting a pretty good mix that way.
Also, thanks to the fuel return line, the tank is constantly being churned and the premix should stay well mixed.
If you put the premix in first, you already have some gas in the tank as it will never be totally empty and thus it will already start the mixing process as you swipe you card, select your grade, etc. Then, when you are pouring gas into you tank at the rate of 2 to 3 gallons per minute (which is a pretty good flow plus the dropping action of the gas splashing and swirling into the tank). You end up getting a pretty good mix that way.
Also, thanks to the fuel return line, the tank is constantly being churned and the premix should stay well mixed.
03-07-08, 01:22 PM
#74
And you base this on......?
We've been through this in another thread, yzf
Here's my opinion:
when it comes to the health of motor internals, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
8 ozs for 18 gallons of gas is a 369:1 ratio. That's not even remotely close to 100:1.
I run 1 oz per gallon Idemitsu premix (164:1 ratio) *with* a working OMP, and see zero smoke out the tailpipe, with zero added smell. You wouldn't even know I premix.
I'm going to get in touch with Idemitsu, I'm fairly certain their recommendation is based on a working OMP, unless their product is way superior to 'regular' premix. Then maybe we can get an authoritative answer and cease all the speculation.
We've been through this in another thread, yzf
Here's my opinion:
when it comes to the health of motor internals, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
8 ozs for 18 gallons of gas is a 369:1 ratio. That's not even remotely close to 100:1.
I run 1 oz per gallon Idemitsu premix (164:1 ratio) *with* a working OMP, and see zero smoke out the tailpipe, with zero added smell. You wouldn't even know I premix.
I'm going to get in touch with Idemitsu, I'm fairly certain their recommendation is based on a working OMP, unless their product is way superior to 'regular' premix. Then maybe we can get an authoritative answer and cease all the speculation.
wait, so you are adding 18ounces of two cycle in ADDITION to you OMP?
03-07-08, 02:20 PM
#75
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Redline 2-cycle race oil. Been using it for 20 years. Use it in all race cars which commonly run in 100+ air temps here, Firebird and PIR. Never had any failures. Recommend it for any client FD's before any heavy playing. Due to the fact mazda runs the OMP so lean on the FD3S.
