JaNusSolSumnus

Okay, I still have about $2000 in performance parts to sell from my old Thunderbird, once they are out the door I intend to start work on the RX-7. I have a list of mods I would like to do, but I'm wondering if they are the best for my application and if I'm upgrading in the right order or not.

- Manual swap (street clutch, stock everything else)
- Defi' gauges -- Boost/EGT/Wideband02
- PowerFC + Commander
- Efini Y-pipe + Downpipe + AST bottle
- Racing Beat dual-tip exhaust + Midpipe
- Blitz Intake Kit
- KOYO/Fluidyne radiator
- Blitz SMIC
- MazdaSpeed Miata : Steering wheel + Shifter + E-brake handle
- New RX-7 leather seats, RX-8 leather seats or MS-Miata leather seats

I am going for an all out reliability car, I only want 320-350RWHP and I would like to keep the stock turbo system. If my engine ever goes I'm going to get a Pineapple street-port and if the turbo's follow I'll probably go with the 99+ spec twins.

Am I choosing the right mods and the right order to do them in? Is there anything else I should consider performance-wise? Also a quick Q about the PFC, what does the Commander do in addition to the PFC itself? I know 2 grand isnt much in the way of mods but I can atleast complete 1 or 2 in my list with that I'm sure.

EDIT: My car is a 94' -- 100% stock with 59k on the origanal motor/turbos...

Thanks,
~Kris

adam c

iTrader: (2)

If you are doing an auto to manual tranny swap, and want to do all the rest, you will need $8-$10,000.

If you want to spend $2000 wisely, start with gauges, downpipe, radiator, ast & boost controller. If you have any money left, get a catback.

JaNusSolSumnus

Doesnt the PFC control boost? I know it is a stand-alone ECU and that it control fuel, ignition and such but I thought it also controlled the boost levels as well, which is one of many reasons people state it to be the most important mod to any modified FD.

~Kris

adam c

iTrader: (2)

If you want to spend only $2000, you should not buy a PFC.

rynberg

For your situation, in order of priority:

*manual swap
*downpipe
*boost and water temp gauges (Defi doesn't make wideband and at your stage of modding, you don't need wideband or exhaust temp). Get an oil temp instead of water temp if you are getting a PFC later
*aluminum AST
*Pettit/M2 ecu or PFC
*cat-back
*intake -- get a smaller box style or Pettit, Apexi and Blitz won't allow use of a decent size SMIC
*SMIC -- I would get something bigger than the Blitz, like a PFS or M2/ASP.
*radiator -- move this up the list if your endtanks are looking bad

The PFC can control boost, but not as well as a boost controller. It works fine for some but not for others. YMMV.

Also, I wouldn't do a midpipe without having larger injectors and a fuel pump.

pugg57

the PFC does control boost, but apparently its "not too reliable" and you should probably run a boost controller also. if you are just doing street driving, you should be ok without an aditional controller... but hey, you're car, you're money

TracyRX7

It controls boost somewhat up to around 18psi which is enough for the twins. It doesn't do 'as good' a job as the better electronic boost controllers though so it just depends on what you budget is.

You can do the 'Home Depot boost controller' (search forums here) for around $10 and with just intake/catback you don't need to worry about a new ECU. Just adding the PFC to a stock car unless you know how to tune or want to pay for tuning will make the car run worse.

I also wouldn't replace the Y-pipe unless you are having problems building enough boost or you suspect your stock one is broken.

Also when doing your gauges you'll either want to fix or replace the stock temp gauge. In 'stock' form it is non-linear so it goes up to warm real quick and sits in the middle until you have a 5 alarm fire under the hood then it instantly spikes past hot. You can find info on making it into a linear and useful gauge or just add an aftermarket one instead (that has actual #s on it).

rynberg

A lot of boost controllers only use a 2-bar sensor. The PFC can control boost levels well into the 20s with a 3-bar sensor.

JaNusSolSumnus

That isnt all I want to spend, that is just going to be my extra money to spend in the very near future.

I already intend to linearize the temp gauge, thats why I didnt include it in the new gauges list. I should of posted that I intended to do that though, I found a site the goes over the process.

I dont intend to run beyond 15psi ever. I figure if my exhaust and intake become more efficiant running 12psi should be plenty. What I'm having a hard time understanding (after talking to a friend of mine who is big on turbo information) is why do I need a completely new ECU? If I have a boost controller to keep the car from spiking, wont the computer be able to compensate fuel properly?

I mean I know a ECU+tune would obviously be more efficiant but also more costly. I listed the PFC still though because everyone seems to stand by it as a 'need' once your car has a few bolt-ons.

I'm still a newb to this turbo stuff... I keep searching the archives and Google for more info each day. :\

~Kris

Nameless

If you cant tune the PFC yourself, and plan to stick with the base map, it'd dangerous. I've got a local friend who just blew an apex seal on a base map with dp, mp cb.
For those mods all you need is a Pettit chipped ECU. Sure it runs a lil rich... but it will be safe for the mods you have on your car.

Broken09

iTrader: (1)

You could get a different pretuned computer such as the M2, or something similar instead of paying 1200 for the pfc & commander. Just a thought.
-Nic

JaNusSolSumnus

List Vers. 2.0
- Manual swap (street clutch, stock everything else)
- Linearize Temp. gauge
- Downpipe + AST bottle
- PowerFC + Commander OR Blitz DSBC Spec S boost controller
- KOYO/Fluidyne radiator
- Racing Beat dual-tip exhaust
- ASP Medium SMIC

Trimmed down to the 'essentials', something to better work with.

What are the pro's/con's to removing the air pump? With the ASP SMIC it is a requirement to be removed.

I could swing a manual swap for about 2k couldnt I? I could just do that now and worry about the rest after a couple paychecks...

EDIT: In addition to the other ECU offerings... what advantage does the PFC offer over these? Just the ability to be fully tunable on its own? I'm still not sure what the Commander adds to the bundle, I have yet to find an accurate description of what makes it worth another $3-400.

~Kris

Assud

Replacing the ECU will either allow you to tune the car using the PFC or make it run alot richer for safety with a replacement ECU. Trying to rely on the stock ECU to compensate fuel when youre making more power may work but if something goes wrong (you spike maybe) you are much more likely to run lean because youre already pushing the limits of your stock ECU. Turning the boost up, even if you can control it is going to be the problem, with just boltons and a good boost controller you should be able to use the stock ECU. Hey i may be wrong, but from everything i have read, thats what it seems like, correct me if i am.

And for mods im just doing the reliability mods right now because summer is getting close and its time to make the car run cooler! (its been hot down here in SD the past few days ) do the auto -> manual swap after youve done the reliability stuff IMO.

JaNusSolSumnus

I was becoming curious about that because my friend was saying that if with a boost controller and the stock ECU, if it cannot compensate the fuel then there is something wrong with the ECU/system to begin with... I am still trying to understand the differant parts of turbo cars that are still sketchy to me, I come from a long line of simple N/A V8's so it is a transition. A good one at that.

Given my southern local... you suggest I go with:
- Linearize temp gauge
- Downpipe
- AST + Radiator(Koyo / Fluidyne)
- ASP medium SMIC (I'd go FMIC but I dont want to do ANY cutting)

novadan67

You need the air pump if you don't have a midpipe. If you get a midpipe you WILL fail emissions.

To answer your ECU questions, the general consensus is if you stay at 10psi or less the stock ecu is OK. Anything above that is VERY dangerous. If you have fuel system or other problems, no ECU will compensate for that.

rynberg

Your friend obviously knows nothing about FDs...

BTW, you can use the air pump with ASP ICs, Kevin is in the midst of a production run right now with piping allowing for the air pump. People with the old design just hammered down the hot-side pipe anyway to get it to fit.

I suggest you do a lot more research before getting too much further. You are already starting to get some of the worthless crap that always turns up in these threads.

Do your manual swap, get a downpipe and boost/water temp gauges and leave the car alone until you learn more about it and can make your own decisions.

JaNusSolSumnus

Wise advice I'll hold on to.

I should also mention in 300mi at my 60k mark I'll be doing some maintenance...

-Oil + filter
-Plugs + wires (NGK 9s + Magnacore 10mm)
-Fuel filter
-Air filter
-Brake pads all around
-Coolant flush + new tstat

I'll take your advice and stick with reliability mods and the manual. I know the downpipe is the biggest thing because of the added heat it tosses into the engine bay. The gauges will be great for monitoring, and if I go all into it and get a PFC or whatever ECU/controllers I decide on I can always re-sell my older parts.

I would do the silicone lines but I'm weary of them after the write-up I read on their reaction to oil... I think I'm going to hold off until I can afford to get the Viton lines. My lines feel to be in surprisingly good shape at the moment any how.

Thanks for helping to keep my imagination from running wild. I start to get carried away when I think about the potential the RX-7 holds.

~Kris

rynberg

Don't forget changing brake fluid, tranny fluid, and diff fluid -- good things to change at 60k.

There's absolutely no reason to change out your vacuum lines unless you are having severe boost issues that aren't fixed by replacing the easily accessible lines. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Wait until you rebuild the motor to replace the lines -- and just replace them with good quality rubber (Goodyear Duroblue as RonKMiller recommends).

If you spend a bit of time on the forum and you don't keep perspective, you'll end up wasting a lot of money and doing a lot of unnecessary and/or stupid things to your car.

iceman4357

iTrader: (2)

sounds like a great plan, the car will feel like a completely different one after you do all of that. It makes you want to invest more to make it faster!

cruiser

Somewhere you lost your intake
You will need an aftermarket intake with ASP SMIC.

And for the mods listed, get Pettit or M2 Stage3 ECU AND ProfecB boost controller (or similar).