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I finally after hours and hours of trying to reinstall the transmission realized that I forgot to instale the small seal that goes in front of the pilot bearing. Does anyone know if it's OK to leave it out? Since there isn't any oil present being the bearing and I didn't put much grease behind the bearing I don't really see what the seal would be doing.
Thanks!
I finally after hours and hours of trying to reinstall the transmission realized that I forgot to instale the small seal that goes in front of the pilot bearing. Does anyone know if it's OK to leave it out? Since there isn't any oil present being the bearing and I didn't put much grease behind the bearing I don't really see what the seal would be doing.
Thanks!
I'm in the middle of this job, and just curious, what have you been fighting? I gave up after an hour or so wrestling it back in. I decided to replace the pilot bearing just in case that was the issue, but haven't removed the old one. I still need to rent the tool. I'm also wondering about this seal, as i checked another engine i have laying out, and the previous owner did not put that seal in.
Make sure the engine isn't leaning forward as it likely is. You will be fighting yourself and end up destroying the pilot bearing. It would be a situation where the engine is like this \ and trans is like this /.
Stick something under the front of the engine so it leans back. You'll be able to install the trans very easily since they will both be like this //. The fd trans slips right in everytime. If you're fighting it, something is wrong.
I'm in the middle of this job, and just curious, what have you been fighting? I gave up after an hour or so wrestling it back in. I decided to replace the pilot bearing just in case that was the issue, but haven't removed the old one. I still need to rent the tool. I'm also wondering about this seal, as i checked another engine i have laying out, and the previous owner did not put that seal in.
With the clutch installed I couldn't get the transmission gap closer than an inch. It was so frustrating! Up and down with the transmission many many times. This is with like 20 inches of clearance mind you.
Pilot bearing was fine and lightly greased with finger. I put the transmission in gear and was able to catch the splines of the disk but wouldn't go any further. Even with using a ratchet strap. (Didn't force it)
So my last resort was to take the pressure plate and disk off of the flywheel and slide it onto the transmission shaft. Once I did that it slid in buttery smooth. Even though I used the alignment tool it seemed to have been slightly off where the alignment with the bearing was off enough to cause the issue. After that I bolted the clutch to the flywheel through the inspection hole. That also took forever but I didn't car because the hard part was over. The only thing I couldn't do is use a torque wrench because of the spacing. So make it as tight as you can.
I would tighten a different bolt to that spec to get a feel of what the rating feels like. Then tighten the pressure plate bolt by hand.
Also not sure if anyone knows this but I didn't have to drain the transmission fluid. What I did was zip tie the drives haft to the transmission saving me a step!
Originally Posted by FDAUTO
"No"
You'll be fine without it. Its not worth dropping everything to install
The seal on the pilot bearing keeps the grease in the pilot bearing and keeps grit/dust/crap out of the pilot bearing.
The big thing here is without it you will shorten the life of the pilot bearing by a good amount.
The common problem I've found with re-installing the transmission is twofold -
- The plastic clutch alignment tools that every clutch kit comes with are TOO LONG. Cut about 1/2" or so off the nose of the tool, that will engage more of the clutch and allow for a more accurate alignment. Once the clutch/pressure plate is installed the tool should slide in and out VERY smoothly and easily and "pop" when you remove it due to the seal.
- Using a good transmission jack makes a MASSIVE difference. This: https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb...ack-61232.html
The ratchet strap thing is totally in the way on that, I actually removed it and cut the mounting ears for that strap off. Being able to have the transmission securely lifted up and steady then you just wiggle it into place is a game changer.
It's your call if you want to pull the trans and reinstall the seal. Personally I would. Yeah it sucks but I would hate knowing I skipped that step and I'll have to go back in there prematurely.
The seal on the pilot bearing keeps the grease in the pilot bearing and keeps grit/dust/crap out of the pilot bearing.
The big thing here is without it you will shorten the life of the pilot bearing by a good amount.
The common problem I've found with re-installing the transmission is twofold -
- The plastic clutch alignment tools that every clutch kit comes with are TOO LONG. Cut about 1/2" or so off the nose of the tool, that will engage more of the clutch and allow for a more accurate alignment. Once the clutch/pressure plate is installed the tool should slide in and out VERY smoothly and easily and "pop" when you remove it due to the seal.
- Using a good transmission jack makes a MASSIVE difference. This: https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb...ack-61232.html
The ratchet strap thing is totally in the way on that, I actually removed it and cut the mounting ears for that strap off. Being able to have the transmission securely lifted up and steady then you just wiggle it into place is a game changer.
It's your call if you want to pull the trans and reinstall the seal. Personally I would. Yeah it sucks but I would hate knowing I skipped that step and I'll have to go back in there prematurely.
Dale
I do have that jack and did cut the ears off for better clearance. Funny thing is that the alignment tool slid in and out very freely. I was 99 percent sure that it was aligned. I guess that 1% was keeping me from getting it in.
As far as premature failure, I'll have to roll the dice seeing that I won't be driving the car much. If it fails in the next year or so that will be fine with me. My back is shot for now. Another hour or two on the creeper will screw me up for the next 2 weeks... 🤦
I’m with DC, the seal is multiple purpose. It wasn’t clear, but if you installed a new bearing without it, I’d also be concerned the bearing may not have been fully seated and the input shaft in some contact with the bearing itself. In addition to retaining grease and keeping a lot of dust out, seems like it’s a buffer the input shaft. It would bug me to no end to leave it off.
I’m with DC, the seal is multiple purpose. It wasn’t clear, but if you installed a new bearing without it, I’d also be concerned the bearing may not have been fully seated and the input shaft in some contact with the bearing itself. In addition to retaining grease and keeping a lot of dust out, seems like it’s a buffer the input shaft. It would bug me to no end to leave it off.
The pilot bearing is new from 800 miles ago(new clutch install) . All I did is swap out the clutch and pressure plate. I had the seal installed but after finally getting the transmission installed I saw that it fell out with all the fussing. As far as grease, I only put a skin on the shaft and a bit on the bearing. I don't see any flinging of grease happening.
The pilot bearing is new from 800 miles ago(new clutch install) . All I did is swap out the clutch and pressure plate. I had the seal installed but after finally getting the transmission installed I saw that it fell out with all the fussing. As far as grease, I only put a skin on the shaft and a bit on the bearing. I don't see any flinging of grease happening.
Do yourself a favor and do the job right... As Dale described, you DO need that seal to keep crap out of the bearing. Think about where that seal & bearing lives - closed up in the bell housing with all that fine & abrasive clutch dust floating around - you don't want that crap getting into your pilot bearing, especially given what a PITA it is to replace a failed one. If you have any doubt on the health of your 800 mile old bearing, I'd replace that as well - it's only like a $10~$15 part, but many hours of labor to replace if it fails prematurely.
So I decided to get the seal installed and go down the rabbit hole again. Now I have a set of different issues that maybe some of the more experienced can advise.
I wasn't able to disengage the throwout bearing from the pressure plate so I had to unbolt the pressure plate from the flywheel while the transmission was still installed.
Now the I have the transmission down I'm struggling with the disengagement.
Can anyone share any tricks on how to get this done? I've tried with compressing the ring but because the pressure plate isn't secured to the flywheel I'm fighting the fork which also wants to move. I've even tried to re install it back onto the flywheel but the alignment is off and difficult.
Thoughts?
It's way easier to disengage with the whole thing in the car, it gets much harder with the pressure plate unbolted and out of the car and stuck in the trans.
You have to get that ring pushed away from the throwout bearing and into the pressure plate, work your way around the pressure plate and make sure you don't just have one side. Then you should be able to pop it free.
There's some videos floating around on the topic.
May also help having a longer prybar/flat head screw driver.
OK guys.... I'm about to put a for sale sign on this Biach....
I managed to disengage the clutch finally. In the last attempt to put the transmission back in this time WITH the pilot bearing seal, I notice a dreaded needle bearing falling on my face.. A clear sign that the pilot bearing was damaged.
With many trips to different AutoZone stores to try and get a puller, to find out none are available around me even though I had rented one in the past.
That said I ordered one from Amazon and the sizes available weren't catching.
I had to knock out the needle bearings out to get the next size up into the bearing. With many attempts with the sliding hammer I wasn't successful in taking it bearing housing out.
So can anyone recommend a method to cutting the bearing housing to then pry it out??
Is there a Harbor Freight near you? I have the SST but I looked at this puller kit and it looks like it had the size you need. And I think others here have used it successfully.
Once you get it out, before I got the installation tool, I used the OLD seal on top of the new bearing and a small body hammer to tap the new bearing in. Just be careful to start it straight. The body hammer has a large flat head but was small and controllable. I’d slowly increase power tapping until it started moving. Sounds complicated but it’s not. Still, I think Mazdatrix sells the installation tool for not much…. https://mazdatrix.com/product/tool-p...ing-installer/
With the right tools R & R’ing the bearing and seal takes < 5 minutes.
Thanks for the recommendation. I do have one about 40 min away.
The thing is that I tried with a couple of pullers and the one that did catch I still wasn't able to make it budge... I did some further digging and it seems like others resorted to using a dremel to weaken it and then Bend it out.
A helper next time, if you can find one, wiggling it in with you, might be better than a jack....almost certainly weight of transmission, misaligned, supported on the bearing killed it. Wet paper, with a properly sized brass/alloy drift might just be as good as a ST too.
09-06-23, 08:24 AM
