Pictures of the problem: Oil on bolts, mounts, and subframe
12-31-08, 03:28 PM
#1
Bosozoomku
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Pictures of the problem: Oil on bolts, mounts, and subframe
Guys, please show me some love right quick, I could use it...
Less than 3k on my motor (300whp), I got underneath to swap out the springs after reading Howard Coleman's chassis/setup thread. I noticed there was fresh oil on the bolts on both sides of the bottom of the back of the motor, around the motor mounts above the subframe. I removed the tranny pan and found more oil there, too. The oil leaking seems to be cleaner than the oil on the dipstick, too. However, I'm not seeing a leak at the dipstick. Meaning, it doesn't seem to be requiring any extra oil beyond normal, and I hadn't noticed a drip or problem for about 3k miles after the rebuild. See pics...
As you can see here, nothing is leaking up top or from the front... this is the driver's side of the motor and it's dry.
I searched thru the posts here on oil pan leaks and was directed to a thread on the fd3s.net site about removing the oil pan. The author advises checking the motor mounts when they are off the engine to check for oil leaks! From the site:
Less than 3k on my motor (300whp), I got underneath to swap out the springs after reading Howard Coleman's chassis/setup thread. I noticed there was fresh oil on the bolts on both sides of the bottom of the back of the motor, around the motor mounts above the subframe. I removed the tranny pan and found more oil there, too. The oil leaking seems to be cleaner than the oil on the dipstick, too. However, I'm not seeing a leak at the dipstick. Meaning, it doesn't seem to be requiring any extra oil beyond normal, and I hadn't noticed a drip or problem for about 3k miles after the rebuild. See pics...
As you can see here, nothing is leaking up top or from the front... this is the driver's side of the motor and it's dry.
I searched thru the posts here on oil pan leaks and was directed to a thread on the fd3s.net site about removing the oil pan. The author advises checking the motor mounts when they are off the engine to check for oil leaks! From the site:
"The motor mounts in this car are filled with oil and should be closely inspected for damage. Now would be a good time to replace the motor mounts if they are leaking."
So now I'm curious: 1. Is the engine flexing enough to cause an oil pan seal leak and will it get worse? or 2. Could it possibly be my engine mounts leaking, not the pan?
Last edited by TimeMachine; 12-31-08 at 03:49 PM.
12-31-08, 03:38 PM
#2
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Hm, it's hard to tell what could be causing it.....possibly a rear main seal leak? How does the car drive, any issues with the clutch at all?
What was your procedure for sealing the oil pan? gasket, no gasket? what kind of silicone? what did you torque the motor mount bolts to?
Call me crazy, but I've never seen a stock motor mount leak oil.
What was your procedure for sealing the oil pan? gasket, no gasket? what kind of silicone? what did you torque the motor mount bolts to?
Call me crazy, but I've never seen a stock motor mount leak oil.
12-31-08, 03:43 PM
#3
TIME ATTACK FD
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It could be the rear main seal that is leaking.. this happened to mine also, there would be oil everywhere. So it would seem like it was coming out from the oil pan seal. But in fact it was my rear main seal that had been worn out. I got it replaced when i had my clutch done, and the area know seems to have no oil residue anymore....
12-31-08, 03:49 PM
#4
Bosozoomku
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Hahaha, I don't think you're crazy... I know it's a long shot, but it's weird that oil is on both sides near the mounts. It was my crazy thought...
The engine was built and installed by Tri-Point Engineering (Canoga Park, CA)... I'm trying to contact them about it but they have been unreachable due to the holidays.
The clutch pack and flywheel was replaced with new ACT components at the time of rebuild. The rebuild was done about 2 years ago, but I have only put about 3k on the engine since. Tuned to 300whp and the car drives great: Very strong and that hasn't changed since the rebuild; the clutch hooks like a *****', too.
The engine was built and installed by Tri-Point Engineering (Canoga Park, CA)... I'm trying to contact them about it but they have been unreachable due to the holidays.
The clutch pack and flywheel was replaced with new ACT components at the time of rebuild. The rebuild was done about 2 years ago, but I have only put about 3k on the engine since. Tuned to 300whp and the car drives great: Very strong and that hasn't changed since the rebuild; the clutch hooks like a *****', too.
Last edited by TimeMachine; 12-31-08 at 03:52 PM.
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12-31-08, 04:48 PM
#9
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Ha, I've been called much worse over the years, trust me 
You'll see oil seeping down from behind the flywheel/clutch assembly. The rear main seal (and the o-ring on the rear stationary gear as six rotors mentioned) are located behind that.
You'll see oil seeping down from behind the flywheel/clutch assembly. The rear main seal (and the o-ring on the rear stationary gear as six rotors mentioned) are located behind that.
01-01-09, 02:52 PM
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
I would say rear main seal, and make sure tripoint stands behind the job. I am sure they charged you to dollar. believe me I've had work done there and they charge very high rates.
Jeff
Jeff
01-01-09, 02:56 PM
#11
Rotary Enthusiast
use some carb cleaner and clean off the bottom . then drive it back to Mark at tripoint and make sure they take care of you. at 3k you should not have any leaks like this.
Jeff
Jeff
01-01-09, 06:39 PM
#12
+1 for rear main seal and/or rear stationary gear 'O' ring. In the pictures I'm seeing what looks like oil coming from the bellhousing to motor "seam". And another oil trail from the inspection plate.
IMO that's actually good news. I'd rather deal with that than trying to re-seal an oil pan.
IMO that's actually good news. I'd rather deal with that than trying to re-seal an oil pan.
01-01-09, 07:21 PM
#13
Bosozoomku
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You're absolutely right Jeff... "top dollar" At any rate, I'm 90% sure you and the others are correct in the assessment of the rear main seal (and 9% chance it could be something else entirely, 1% chance I'm fucked
) Mark and TriPoint have provided excellent customer service over the years; and, I've written him an email regarding the matter.
Quote: Sgtblue
"Imo that's actually good news. I'd rather deal with that than trying to re-seal an oil pan."
I was thinking the same thing after reading what you all had to say on here. It makes sense that oil would be seeping from the bell housing as you pointed out.
) Mark and TriPoint have provided excellent customer service over the years; and, I've written him an email regarding the matter. Quote: Sgtblue
"Imo that's actually good news. I'd rather deal with that than trying to re-seal an oil pan."
I was thinking the same thing after reading what you all had to say on here. It makes sense that oil would be seeping from the bell housing as you pointed out.
01-01-09, 10:50 PM
#14
Rotary Enthusiast
tripoint has good customer service, but they don't show any love to their loyal customers. its top dollar all the time! I don't look for anything for free but appreciating your customers and not raking them over the coals all the time would be nice.
Jeff
Jeff
01-01-09, 11:57 PM
#16
+1 I bet you built up some crankcase pressure and blew the oil pan seal out. The only SURE way to be SURE is to spray it down with brake parts cleaner and idle it for 20 mins or so. If it doesn't show up then take it for a 5-10 mile drive and look. If its higher than the oil pan then I agree with the other above post's. It's much more likely the common oil pan leak (and hopefully for you as it's cheaper and quicker). Goodluck!!!
01-02-09, 06:50 AM
#17
You have a steel mount on the driver's side, this does not have the "nub" to put pressure on the pan like the original aluminum mount. It requires that you drill out the pan and install a bolt in the location or put a spacer where the "nub" used to be. Otherwise the pan will leak just above the mount and migrate across the entire rear plate, just like you have pictured. You will need to drop the pan to reseal it since it has already compromised the RTV. You should consider installing an oilpan brace to help eliminate future leaks.
http://www.banzai-racing.com/product..._pan_brace.htm
http://www.banzai-racing.com/product..._pan_brace.htm
01-02-09, 02:40 PM
#19
To determine if the rear main seal is leaking: jack up the front of the car and start it.
If the rear main seal is leaking, you should be able to see it.
You can also remove the inspection plate and try to see if there is oil in the bellhousing. I've had the same trouble, and could both see the leak and found oil in the bellhousing.
If the rear main seal doesn't leak, don't make any assumptions about the source of the leak.
There are many things under the hood that can leak, and many of them can look like the pan leaking. The oil drips down and flows back to the subframe and gets the whole back of the pan wet with oil.
Some of the leaks I have had that initially looked like a leaky pan:
leaky oil hose fittings
turbo oil line leaks
P/S leaks (make sure the stuff you see is really oil)
Also, some motors have a pipe right behind the oil filler tube.
It is hard to see unless you are looking for it - Pipe on Oil Filler Pedestal
If you have that pipe, and it is not capped off, oil will collect on top of the motor, run down the side and to the back, where it looks like an oil pan leak.
If the rear main seal is leaking, you should be able to see it.
You can also remove the inspection plate and try to see if there is oil in the bellhousing. I've had the same trouble, and could both see the leak and found oil in the bellhousing.
If the rear main seal doesn't leak, don't make any assumptions about the source of the leak.
There are many things under the hood that can leak, and many of them can look like the pan leaking. The oil drips down and flows back to the subframe and gets the whole back of the pan wet with oil.
Some of the leaks I have had that initially looked like a leaky pan:
leaky oil hose fittings
turbo oil line leaks
P/S leaks (make sure the stuff you see is really oil)
Also, some motors have a pipe right behind the oil filler tube.
It is hard to see unless you are looking for it - Pipe on Oil Filler Pedestal
If you have that pipe, and it is not capped off, oil will collect on top of the motor, run down the side and to the back, where it looks like an oil pan leak.
01-02-09, 04:53 PM
#20
Rotary Enthusiast
take the advice of Banzai racing listed above and have tripoint complete the job with the brace attached. you should only pay for the brace all labor should be payed for by tripoint.
Jeff
Jeff
01-13-09, 05:46 PM
#21
Bosozoomku
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*ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding*
We have a winner!
The car is at Tri-Point now, and it was determined that it is the oil pan leaking. They are going to replace it with a new oil pan, no charge for labor. I'm good with that.
However, Banzai, I'd like to know a little more about the brace. They said that they had installed them in the past, but that it had more of an impact on reducing motor flex than reducing the chances of a leaky pan. Not a bad thing in and of itself to be sure, but they cautioned that it was tricky to install correctly with the motor still in the car, and they had to grind it or motor mounts down to fit correctly which led to the motor sitting slightly higher. I definitely think motor flex coincides with oil pan leaks, but more information would be helpful. Would you comment on this, please?
We have a winner!
The car is at Tri-Point now, and it was determined that it is the oil pan leaking. They are going to replace it with a new oil pan, no charge for labor. I'm good with that.
However, Banzai, I'd like to know a little more about the brace. They said that they had installed them in the past, but that it had more of an impact on reducing motor flex than reducing the chances of a leaky pan. Not a bad thing in and of itself to be sure, but they cautioned that it was tricky to install correctly with the motor still in the car, and they had to grind it or motor mounts down to fit correctly which led to the motor sitting slightly higher. I definitely think motor flex coincides with oil pan leaks, but more information would be helpful. Would you comment on this, please?
01-13-09, 08:25 PM
#23
*ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding*
We have a winner!
The car is at Tri-Point now, and it was determined that it is the oil pan leaking. They are going to replace it with a new oil pan, no charge for labor. I'm good with that.
However, Banzai, I'd like to know a little more about the brace. They said that they had installed them in the past, but that it had more of an impact on reducing motor flex than reducing the chances of a leaky pan. Not a bad thing in and of itself to be sure, but they cautioned that it was tricky to install correctly with the motor still in the car, and they had to grind it or motor mounts down to fit correctly which led to the motor sitting slightly higher. I definitely think motor flex coincides with oil pan leaks, but more information would be helpful. Would you comment on this, please?
We have a winner!
The car is at Tri-Point now, and it was determined that it is the oil pan leaking. They are going to replace it with a new oil pan, no charge for labor. I'm good with that.
However, Banzai, I'd like to know a little more about the brace. They said that they had installed them in the past, but that it had more of an impact on reducing motor flex than reducing the chances of a leaky pan. Not a bad thing in and of itself to be sure, but they cautioned that it was tricky to install correctly with the motor still in the car, and they had to grind it or motor mounts down to fit correctly which led to the motor sitting slightly higher. I definitely think motor flex coincides with oil pan leaks, but more information would be helpful. Would you comment on this, please?
01-14-09, 05:33 AM
#24
Its main purpose is to reduce oil pan leaks caused by engine flex, this is achieved by putting even and constant pressure around the sealing lip of the pan. It is not any more tricky to install then the oil pan, which they are going to have to remove to reseal anyway. Shaving the mount brackets is not required. The brace does raise the engine 3/16", but we have never had any clearance issues when using either the stock or our poly mounts.
01-14-09, 11:23 AM
#25
Bosozoomku
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Its main purpose is to reduce oil pan leaks caused by engine flex, this is achieved by putting even and constant pressure around the sealing lip of the pan. It is not any more tricky to install then the oil pan, which they are going to have to remove to reseal anyway. Shaving the mount brackets is not required. The brace does raise the engine 3/16", but we have never had any clearance issues when using either the stock or our poly mounts.