shnitz

hi, i've been a long time lurker, this is my first post. i've been mainly watching the 3rd gen for sale boards, and i thought that many sellers are wanting an unreasonable amount of money for their cars. i've held off on saying this because i didn't want to start anything or just sound like some lunatic, but after vette454's recent thread in the for sale section, i decided i would have some proof to back me up. here is the thread, but basically what happened is he sold a manual transmission black fd, kaaz limited slip installed, clear title, for $4,000 with no engine or transmission.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=440628

he put it on, it was sold after about an hour. i don't believe that it was such a high price, it is a nonrunning car, so the buyer is always taking a chance that once the car is running he will find something else that is wrong. so, i'm wondering why other sellers are asking so much for their cars, such as when i went to see redaddiction's car. it is a salvage title, visible body damage (i'm talking unibody, not bumper or quarter panel), automatic, so he is guaranteed that most buyers will be buying it with a manual conversion in mind, and i'm told to my face that it is at least a $5,000 dollar car. in addition, there is a running rx-7, salvage title for sale, for $13k. am i just the one being unreasonable about expecting low prices? current owners of the cars know that the buyer may have to be ready to rebuild the rotary soon after they buy it, so what's the deal? i don't mean this to be an attack on anybody, i'm just looking for some answers, there must be something that i'm not seeing. thanks,
Ariel

mazdasweetnos

www.kbb.com

jdhuegel1

Find a car of equal performance for less than 20K. There's your answer. Who cares about the age.. If the car is in good condition - it's worth the money. A proper running FD will stomp the **** out of most sports cars today.. even ones that cost much more.

Put it this way... you can pay 15K for a FD, or you can pay 15K for a new Escort...

FormulaRX

People will pay up to 12K knowing that the car might need a rebuild soon...they don't care and that's expected anyway which is why these cars aren't supposed to be sold to the average Joe looking for a first car for his 16y/o daughter. The reason why the cars are selling at the prices they are is because it has become more of a collector car and being offered only for 3 years to us from 93-95 makes it kind of a rare car. I personally don't feel that 12-15K is a lot of money even for a 10-13 year old running FD in mechanically good condition. How much do you expect to pay for a running FD in good condition anyway? Less than 5K? That's Honda Civic territory...then every kid on the block would be driving and trashing what's left of the FDs. I think part of what you are buying by spending 12-15K is not the actual car itself but part of it is paying for the time, money, and tender loving care that the previous owner/enthusiast devoted to keeping the car running in the shape that it is (assuming it's in good shape), that way you won't have to spend as much money to get the car back to good shape than if you were to buy a junker for less than 5K with no engine/tranny.

tsmysak1

It is not just the FD market that keeps the prices high, but the Supra market, the 300Z market, the S2000 market, and ........ if you think about it being a pleasure hobby..... the boat market, the airplane market.... the etc. etc.... All of those things are spendy and cost bucks...

Realistically here is what I have found.....just round guesses here - no flames

An S2000 is going to cost me $18K
A Supra is going to cost me $16K +
A 300Z is going to cost me $12.5K
A Viper is going to cost me $45K
A Vette is going to cost a minimum of $10K

A Bass boat - $25K
A Dodge Truck - $40K
An airplane - $30K - skies the limit (sorry for the pun)

So, is $13K so bad for an FD in really good shape that is originally a $45K spend? I am glad they are as cheap as they are. If you find someone needing to sell, I think you can get a really good buy.

shnitz

oh, i understand and wholly agree with the $12k-$15k for a used running clear title rx-7. what i don't understand is the salvage title "70k, salvage title, some reliability mods" going for that much or the no engine, no tranny, no ecu, new body panels were put on, but the rear wheels are still sitting in different positions in the wheel wells because the unibody wasn't straightened out going for as much as the post that i put above.

cabaynes

iTrader: (4)

a car is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. if you aren't willing to pay that much for a clean FD, then it isn't worth it for you to have one.

FormulaRX

Well that I don't know...maybe the buyer doesn't really know what he's in for or (I'm hoping) is REALLY skillfull and talented to deal with a bent car. But you know how those classic car or muscle car guys buy home a rusted old shell sitting in a barn somewhere and over the next 5 years build it back slowly to brand new condition regardless of title. I think some of these sell for reasons like that. I really think that some of what people price is just to test the waters to see if there's anyone out there that would pay their outrageous prices.

Kento

It's called "pricing for what the market will bear".

Madmax670

Where the hell can you get a turbo supra for 16k?

Mestre

im asking about that much for my car granted it's ggoing to come with some nice toys... but anyways yeah the FD is just a car that's able to do a lot of what other cars can't. And an enthusiast WILL pay whatever the cost is for what his desire is. (or her)

parisifal

No price is outrageous if there is a sucker willing to pay it.

If someone is stupid enough to pay 15k for a salvagaed, bent FD let them, you and me know better.

And frankly speaking all the cars mentioned in this post have lost TREMENDOUS value. Not sure if tsmysak1 realized how much an S2000 lost in value compared to say an M3.

The only car even remotely close to being high in value are the turbo MKIV Supras. And yes I too would like to know where to buy a 16k MIV Turbo Supra. And even that car has lost tremendous value. Some do not realize that in 1994 how much 40k was really worth compare to 40k in today's market. If you take into account depreciation, inflation, cost of living all of the cars mentioned here have lost tremendous value.

All that being said the real value of a car is what the market will allow. If no one bought FD we could buy them all for $500. I remmeber 240sx and AE86 going for around $800 about 6 years ago, how much is a clean AE86 going for nowadays? Supply and demand, very simple ratio. Of all that being said I personally think the FD market is priced higher than the realistic market price as most owners tend to think their car is worth more than the real price. Considering the upkeep and maintenance problems associated with the car I am surprised they go for more than 10k for a decent example, when compared to the nose-dived 300zx and 3kgt market the FD is awfully high in price. The Supra is just idiotic, sorry but for $35,000 I'd get a used Z06 and stomp all over the Supra.

I expect the FD to drop into the 10k range soon enough after the next cycle of japanese sport cars have a chance to sink in. It still remain high because the current japanese offering of true blue sport cars (sorry but Evo and Subi are not sport cars) does not offer the power levels of those earlier cars. Expect the next crop, due out sometime in 2007-9 to offer over the 300hp mark as the 350Z have always crossed that road. Once that htis the FD will drop into the 10k range for a clean example.

Than after about 5 years I expect the FD to gain value from 2015 and onward as it hits the prime 20 years peak of sport car value.

So for anyone considering an FD, if you can, hold off another 5 years than your sure to get a great deal.

shnitz

but see mestre, it's a salvage title. not attacking, but in my opinion, that means alot, if the insurance company branded it as such, in my experience a salvage title means buyer beware. also, anyone that bought that car would be at least the 3rd owner not having it running, so the buyer couldnt check anything such as alignment, bearings, etc etc. anything could be wrong with the car, without being able to drive it no one can check all these things. you name it, you are expecting the buyer to take these chances for you. this is where my question comes in. granted, there is a transmission in your post, but you are selling the car for 500 more than you bought it, now there is another owner on the vehicle history. in addition, it's salvage title, why do you feel that your car is worth more than a clean paintjob clear title car such as i posted above? i talked to a body shop that i trust here in fort worth, they have done a lot of work for my family and friends, and he said that he has seen salvage cars be given to someone, along with parts to repair the area, and still seen the person lose money on the deal.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

I would ignore a lot of the high prices that you see. There is a very big difference between FD asking prices and the prices that they actually sell at. My local Autotrader has about half a dozen high teen asking price, high mileage FDs, all of which have been on the market for many months. One has been there for over a year.

Any what have you got against paragraphs and capitalization and periods? Have you actually tried to read your own posts?

shnitz

i agree competely parisifal, lexus has already announced the change to their is300, they are scrapping the 2jz (inline 6, basically a nonturbo supra engine) in favor of a newly designed v6, there will be an is350 with at least 300 horsepower. then the infiniti gtr has been announced for '07 i think. i disagree with the awd sedans not being sports cars, for the price the evo performs pretty decently on the track.

shnitz

Sorry, I'm posting in Instant Messenger mode. Consider me switched over to normal mode.

FormulaRX

yeah I can't find a decent turbo MKIV supra for 16K anywhere...it surprises me that some of the owners are still asking 35-40K for their low mileage Supras today. I mean sure it's an awesome car capable for insane power, but 40K that's asking a bit too much.

OKRX-7

It may have 300hp but it still won't be a sports car. You may try to label it a sports sedan, but it won't be called a sports car for the mere fact it won't be.

If that were the case I know an *** load of older gentlemen driving Caddy's with high output northstars, they sure as hell ain't sports cars. On the flip side, a Lotus Elise is a sports car and stock they don't even break 200hp.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

Most owners have a insane outlook on resale. They seem to think that whatever $$ they put into the car should be given back to them. Whether it be normal maintanence or mods. That thought process is very wrong as for the fact that normal maintanence is just that,... the cost of running the vehicle and unrefundable in my eyes. And mods,.. well did the car "need" a single turbo conversion. Or the PFC? Probably not! And " that" was a choice the owner took in spending the money. Which in my eyes did NOT "need" to be spent and should not be "expected" to be returned by a prospective buyer.

My 2 cents. But remember, you are dealing with people that think this car will someday be on BArret Jackson Not bloody likely!!! Unrealsitic ideas come with an unrealistic pricetag.

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

As for cars not running or without engine and such. I feel anything under 6-7k is pretty close to reasonable to me. For that initial purchase and a new engine( reman or built) you can still have a very nice FD for less than most of the BS pricetags out there. But then you must take my above comments into thought if you wanted to resell it and be reasonable. Luckily i do not have to think about it as I am never selling mine.

But if I were to buy a non-runner and build it,.... I would not ask more than the blue book value which last i checked a year ago was between 13-16k for a very good/near perfect condition FD.

cooljerk187

Anything is worth what it can be sold for.

Mestre

Because i've had to fix up those said problems that you spoke about before plus it would be coming with things the car didn't have prior (ecu/wiring harness etc etc) So that's why I feel justified. But that's just my asking price anyways, if someone made a reasonable offer with something in hand i'd let it go for less than that obviously but to have to have me ship a car out or whatever the hell else to go with it like I had to go through to get the car, yeah the sheer time and effort alone is a pain in the ***. Back on to topic though salvage doesn't always mean completely screwed car either, i've seen things totaled out for stuff that was completely fixable but the insurance companies didn't feel like footing the bill so to stop that it's just easier to total a car out than pay the damage cost on a 12 year old car(if it was wrecked this year or something to that affect).

T.c.

Flybye

https://www.rx7club.com/automotive-news-lounge-22/could-some-clue-me-why-fd-prices-outrageous-439629/

Kento

I'd say these two posts (well, besides mine ) sum up this thread:

tsmysak1

That is a good point - there is always a difference between asking and selling.

I watched ebay for a long time and did a little study on what actually closed and what did not. I also watched the paper and trader-online.

BTW, I have seen Supras sell low on occasion, but when I wrote that, I thought to myself that I was gonna get flamed. In your opinion, what is the bottom end of Supra prices???? Is it more like low 20's?

Anyway, my study led me to this thinking...scrap or serious issue cars sell for $3500 to $6500. Bottom end running FDs are around $7500 - especially if the history is unknown. Well maintained cars can go as high as $12K. Well modded and maintained cars can go into the teens, and super low mileage stock, unmolested cars can bring ...ummmm.....maybe between $17 and $22K.... Now to me, the junkers are too high, the bottom end is what I expect prices to be... I can understand the modded ones and pristine cars, but I can't see the big dollar cars. So I gues it depends on what your interests are - i.e. its a free market.

If you look at the completed listings on ebay, there is a big difference between that and the asking prices.....

Oh ya, its area dependent too. The ones for sale in my area are always high priced. People in this area are car crazy and will pay big bucks for questionable vehicles. I have never seen one here for sale for less than $12500...