outrageous prices for fd's!
07-09-05, 03:26 PM
#51
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Funny that someone would say the RX-7 is not going to be collectable.....My Mork & Mindy stickers from the 70's SHOULDN'T be collectable BUT THEY ARE lol 65-70's Mustangs Millions made people never thought they would be collectable but they are. How could you say that and have any credibility in the rest of your statement. Personally I don't like the looks of the RX-8 I don't like the sharp edges that seem to be popular today. I would buy and RX-7 before and 8 anyday, new or not. I love the rounded curves on the 7 and I don't like most new cars because of their sharp edges like Cadillac. Besides you just don't see many 7's on the road, at least where I live and that is a big part of why I own mine! Whether or not it is the fastest or best handling car on the road I am one of approx 13,000 people to have one! It's a matter of personal taste and exclusivety or supply and demand add to the value. Besides another movie like Fast and Furious comes out and who knows what will happen to the value of ANY car.
Bottom line, if you think it's over priced DON'T BUY IT! If your not looking to buy then don't make fun of people who are looking to buy and the price they pay. I don't understand why people spend a fortune on stereo equipment or paint jobs or any number of things because THAT'S NOT MY BAG BABY, but I don't go putting them or the people down that are selling them.
I guess most of this has been said in one way or another, but people can't let it go so do what you will.
Bottom line, if you think it's over priced DON'T BUY IT! If your not looking to buy then don't make fun of people who are looking to buy and the price they pay. I don't understand why people spend a fortune on stereo equipment or paint jobs or any number of things because THAT'S NOT MY BAG BABY, but I don't go putting them or the people down that are selling them.
I guess most of this has been said in one way or another, but people can't let it go so do what you will.
07-09-05, 03:39 PM
#52
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Unfortunately, personal views don't dictate used car values. Jimlab said
What a inaccurate statement. What WOULD it be based on? lol I sold cars for years NADA, KBB, and any others are WRONG lol They base their information on a number of factors and one is WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THEM lol. Just like the stock market, if I think Phyzer is coming out with a new drug and going up in value, then I buy it. THe same way that I think the RX-7 is a much better looking car than the SUpra, I'm buying it. The #1 reason people buy the cars they do is style, not the only one but #1 for the majority of people. I used to have the exact percentage 60 something, but no matter the statment is still incorrect.
What a inaccurate statement. What WOULD it be based on? lol I sold cars for years NADA, KBB, and any others are WRONG lol They base their information on a number of factors and one is WHAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THEM lol. Just like the stock market, if I think Phyzer is coming out with a new drug and going up in value, then I buy it. THe same way that I think the RX-7 is a much better looking car than the SUpra, I'm buying it. The #1 reason people buy the cars they do is style, not the only one but #1 for the majority of people. I used to have the exact percentage 60 something, but no matter the statment is still incorrect.
07-09-05, 03:39 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by shnitz
I don't agree with some of these statements.
I don't think that the RX-7 will ever be a collector's car, in the same way that RX2's, 3, and 4's are currently not garnering huge prices. They are desirable because of their lax emissions requirements, but people aren't paying tons of money for these bodies. The RX-7 is a nice car, but it isn't a classic. I am positive that Mazda is going to continue developing the Renesis, which has what, 10%-15% of the emissions that the FD did while still providing decent power without a turbo? In my opinion, 220-230 bhp from natural aspiration as opposed to 255 from an engine-killing, heat-generating twin turbo setup is worth it. Also, Road & Track has some little offshoot magazine called Speed, and I remember reading about Mazda development making a prototype supercharged Renesis. Actually, here, I googled some search terms and came up with this:
http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/466
So I don't believe that these "delicate" rotaries are going to be incredibly valuable in the future, especially also considering how quickly factory performance is increasing. Look around, companies are coming out with better-performing cars every day. I would even argue that the Renesis, not the 13B, is actually the pinnacle of what Mazda has built because it produces decent power, lasts longer, and produces much less emmissions.
Second, I agree with NADA values. They don't go by what people think or expect of their cars. You expect people to pay $20K + for a low mileage FD? Sorry, I'm not going to pay as much for a 13 year old FD car as I would for an RX-8. Granted the FD is quicker, but the 8 is a new car, often still has warranty, won't require hardly the influx of immediate repairs that an FD will, has nice factory options such as navigation and HID headlights, etc.
Third, please stop comparing FD's to Supra's. Toyotas are well known for their superior reliability and their much lower depreciation value. They are cars that more than a handful of people in the nation can reliably tune. They make power very well and are a blast to drive without having to worry about destroying the engine at the drop of a pin. You are comparing your failure-prone rotaries to an iron-block inline 6?
I don't think that the RX-7 will ever be a collector's car, in the same way that RX2's, 3, and 4's are currently not garnering huge prices. They are desirable because of their lax emissions requirements, but people aren't paying tons of money for these bodies. The RX-7 is a nice car, but it isn't a classic. I am positive that Mazda is going to continue developing the Renesis, which has what, 10%-15% of the emissions that the FD did while still providing decent power without a turbo? In my opinion, 220-230 bhp from natural aspiration as opposed to 255 from an engine-killing, heat-generating twin turbo setup is worth it. Also, Road & Track has some little offshoot magazine called Speed, and I remember reading about Mazda development making a prototype supercharged Renesis. Actually, here, I googled some search terms and came up with this:
http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/466
So I don't believe that these "delicate" rotaries are going to be incredibly valuable in the future, especially also considering how quickly factory performance is increasing. Look around, companies are coming out with better-performing cars every day. I would even argue that the Renesis, not the 13B, is actually the pinnacle of what Mazda has built because it produces decent power, lasts longer, and produces much less emmissions.
Second, I agree with NADA values. They don't go by what people think or expect of their cars. You expect people to pay $20K + for a low mileage FD? Sorry, I'm not going to pay as much for a 13 year old FD car as I would for an RX-8. Granted the FD is quicker, but the 8 is a new car, often still has warranty, won't require hardly the influx of immediate repairs that an FD will, has nice factory options such as navigation and HID headlights, etc.
Third, please stop comparing FD's to Supra's. Toyotas are well known for their superior reliability and their much lower depreciation value. They are cars that more than a handful of people in the nation can reliably tune. They make power very well and are a blast to drive without having to worry about destroying the engine at the drop of a pin. You are comparing your failure-prone rotaries to an iron-block inline 6?
Most of people on this forum would strongly disagree with most of your comments so buy whatever car it is that suits your needs. Then join that forum and post about how happy you are.
IMO a well sorted FD making 300 rwhp is the best valued car on the planet and I'm happy as a pig in **** that they usually cost about 15 to 20k. Take this same car to your local track and you will probably have the biggest grin and be one of the fastest cars as well.
07-09-05, 04:30 PM
#54
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A fd has the (wow! factor) by good margin over EVERY MODERN DAY car on the planet!In my humble opinion no other car garners as much attention as a 10-23K$ fd. Hell, i get a lot more compliments with my fd than my 98c5.
07-09-05, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Corbic
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Simple as that.
Oh, not good enough?
Here is the run down. The Supra is a 45-55k sports car, the RX-7 was a 35-45k sports car. Right there is a 10k difference. The Supra has superior build quality and for the most part a TT is a superior sports car. The supra is reknown for its relibility, solidarity and safety. The RX-7 is a tin-can death trap know for a problematic Rotray engine.
People understand the I6, you can take a Supra to a dealer or most import shops wiht out fear, however you can't do that same so lightly with the RX-7. The RX-7 also has double the insurance.
Basicly whatever you save upfront on the RX-7 is spent on parts, maintence, fuel and insruance. The Supra also gets better fuel mileage and has more usable space. The Supra is simply a more apealing sports car, safer, fast, better gas mileage, handels better in the snow, has a great exhause note, so forth.
Is it's price insane? You bet you ***, does it have justification for being more expensive then an RX-7? Sure does. Do I want one over an RX-7, @$#% No.
What you guys need to understand is the reason a lot of mechanics don't want to touch an Rx7 is because it is a rotary. A Supra is a piston engine, plain and simple. A lot of mechanicas are familiar with these and can break down and build them up with the same methods as if they were building a honda engine with a turbo. The engines work differently and you can't take the methods from one to build the other. Since rotaries are the rarer of the two, it makes sense a lot of mechanics are not familiar with them and will not touch it because they don't want to be blamed for something gettin messed up because they didn't know. And for you info, there are a few rotaries on here that have made it past 100K miles on the engine. these cars require higher maintenance, and a lot of people don't take care of the rotaries like they should, the same thing happens with most turbo cars when you look at the sales base as a whole.
I think the argument you're trying to make that the supra is a more serviceable car is understood, but it's not because the supra is a nicer car, it's because it's a basic piston engine just like 90% of the car out there, plain and simple. No different than a honda engine but build for more power.
Shnitz, it really doesn't look like you're interested in an FD but a supra, just get a supra and call it a day man. Leave the FDs to the guys who want the car and like it for what it is.
07-09-05, 04:55 PM
#56
Originally Posted by Recentlyconverted
I think the argument you're trying to make that the supra is a more serviceable car is understood
07-09-05, 05:00 PM
#57
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by PDX RX-7
"Unfortunately, personal views don't dictate used car values." What [an] inaccurate statement.
RX7UP said: "A 93 fully loaded FD manuel [sic] with a 100 miles is priceless..."
That's his opinion, not fact, and his belief doesn't make it so. NADA, Kelly, and other sources are guides based on what consumers are paying for specific car models. Not what someone touched in the head wishes his car was worth.
If you can find a buyer to whom your car is "priceless", great. Otherwise, NADA and Kelly are pretty fair indicators of what you can expect to get in trade or outright sale, on average.
07-09-05, 05:05 PM
#58
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you guys are arguing over nothing.......like it was said a bunch of times earlier in this thread the worth of a car comes down to what somone is willing to pay for it........no ifs ands or buts about it.... you can try to "justify" your opinions all you want but in the end it all still comes back to that
07-09-05, 05:15 PM
#59
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by adictd2b00st
the worth of a car comes down to what somone is willing to pay for it........no ifs ands or buts about it.... you can try to "justify" your opinions all you want but in the end it all still comes back to that
07-09-05, 05:43 PM
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Thank you for inserting the AN I had another word in there, but decided it sounded a bit harsh. We are on the same page as far as the GUIDE, but if he thinks it's priceless then it is. Just like my wife is priceless to me ....#*&*& 2)()*&^$ damn woman get off my computer! lol You get the point! ;D
07-09-05, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FDNewbie
And I understand that. But is that taken into account in KBB and NADA values? I'm not sure what their judging criterion is. I'm sure if someone had some insight on what criterion they really base their value on (what the algorithm is based on), then we can see why they assign such a high resale value to Supras and not FDs.
What my judging criterion on is what people pay for the car. these cars will sell for 10K-20K+ dependant on model, mileage, and work done on it. A lot of what the KBB bases their prices on is what the sale price averages are for the car. People have paid in the past 40K for a low mileage supra with mods, and people have paid 25K for a Rx7 with low mileage and mods. Most people don't like to buy FDs because of the legend of all of them being a firebomb, and I'm sure a lot of people in the past have had these cars and not know what to do when it breaks down, and it's not like you're average mechanic can work on this car, where as most mechanics can work on a supra, hence your average person with no prior knowledge can buy a supra and take it to their personal mechanic to have the car worked on. With an FD, you have to do more homework to either do it yourself or find someone that can do it for you, which a lot of people don't like to do. Comes down to convenience really. Most people want a fast car with a bulletproof engine that they can beat to crap and still not have problems or be able to take it someone that can have it back to them with relative ease, hence the higher desire overall for the supra. People that like and own FDs understand that there is more work required for these cars and live with it, but as most people cannot accept this, less people want the car, hence the lower sell value.
They are 2 very different cars, but people seem to like to match them up and define what's better (it's kind of like an argument I got into with this one kid that drove a supercharged maxima, his final response to me was "yeah, well I can carry more people than you in my car..........." I pretty much got up and walked away laughing at this point)
That make more sense to you??
07-09-05, 08:53 PM
#66
Originally Posted by jimlab
...and he'd likely say the same thing about your post.
First, you obviously haven't read any of the magazine reviews where the MKIV Supra Turbo was on average 0.4 seconds quicker and 5 mph faster in the quarter mile than the FD.
Second, you're apparently a poor judge of size. Have you ever seen a tuna boat?
FD - 168.5" (length), 68.9" (width), 48.4" (height)
Supra - 177.8" (+9.3"), 71.3" (+2.4") , 49.8" (+1.4")
300ZX - 169.5" (+1"), 70.5" (+1.6"), 48.4" (+0")
Tuna longliner - 176.6' (+162.6'), 32' (+26.3'), 14.8' (+10.8')
Third, they also equalled or exceeded the FD in braking, slalom, and skid pad performance, so I guess you're a poor judge of handling as well. 5$ says you've never driven one, $10 says that if you have, you're not a skilled enough to have a worthwhile opinion of the comparison.
Was there anything else you wanted to add?
First, you obviously haven't read any of the magazine reviews where the MKIV Supra Turbo was on average 0.4 seconds quicker and 5 mph faster in the quarter mile than the FD.
Second, you're apparently a poor judge of size. Have you ever seen a tuna boat?
FD - 168.5" (length), 68.9" (width), 48.4" (height)
Supra - 177.8" (+9.3"), 71.3" (+2.4") , 49.8" (+1.4")
300ZX - 169.5" (+1"), 70.5" (+1.6"), 48.4" (+0")
Tuna longliner - 176.6' (+162.6'), 32' (+26.3'), 14.8' (+10.8')
Third, they also equalled or exceeded the FD in braking, slalom, and skid pad performance, so I guess you're a poor judge of handling as well. 5$ says you've never driven one, $10 says that if you have, you're not a skilled enough to have a worthwhile opinion of the comparison.
Was there anything else you wanted to add?
Last edited by rx7what; 07-09-05 at 08:57 PM.
07-09-05, 09:49 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by jimlab
Until you go to the bank to get a loan for that priceless car and find out that they actually take the blue book figures seriously...
07-09-05, 10:04 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by rx7what
I have seen a tuna boat
Have you seen the key marked "enter" on your keyboard?
That stream of consciousness you posted is unintelligble.
07-09-05, 10:56 PM
#70
Funny thing.. full coverage on my Hyundai is more than on an FD.. Of course I have lots of good driving record and a few other things under my belt...
However, the difference is only 9 dollars cheaper.. and I am going to opt for extra coverage that is going to eat up that 9 bucks a month, that way if something were to happen, I will be able to get another one at above book value. /end useless banter
However, the difference is only 9 dollars cheaper.. and I am going to opt for extra coverage that is going to eat up that 9 bucks a month, that way if something were to happen, I will be able to get another one at above book value. /end useless banter
07-10-05, 12:42 AM
#72
Originally Posted by Recentlyconverted
Shnitz, it really doesn't look like you're interested in an FD but a supra, just get a supra and call it a day man. Leave the FDs to the guys who want the car and like it for what it is.
07-10-05, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Monkman33
Funny thing.. full coverage on my Hyundai is more than on an FD.. Of course I have lots of good driving record and a few other things under my belt...
However, the difference is only 9 dollars cheaper.. and I am going to opt for extra coverage that is going to eat up that 9 bucks a month, that way if something were to happen, I will be able to get another one at above book value. /end useless banter
However, the difference is only 9 dollars cheaper.. and I am going to opt for extra coverage that is going to eat up that 9 bucks a month, that way if something were to happen, I will be able to get another one at above book value. /end useless banter
What are you guys paying?
07-10-05, 06:38 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by jimlab
Just most of them... .... . ........ .......
07-10-05, 07:00 AM
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[QUOTE=Corbic]
[QUOTE]
Brian O'Spilner:"Nice car...what's the retail price of it"
Ferari guy: "More than you can afford pal....ferarri"
Vin Diesel: "Smoke him"
*BO'S then pressed nawsssss*
[QUOTE]
Brian O'Spilner:"Nice car...what's the retail price of it"
Ferari guy: "More than you can afford pal....ferarri"
Vin Diesel: "Smoke him"
*BO'S then pressed nawsssss*