non seq stock twins at 16psi?
03-25-08, 03:43 PM
#26
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Not sure if you know this (a lot of people do not) but your 98 Octane in the UK is equal to our 93 Octane here in North America. Octane is not calculated the same in Europe and North America. You guys use Ron and we use AKI. RON = Research Octane Number and AKI = Anti-Knock Index.
RON Octane x 0.95 = AKI
RON Octane x 0.95 = AKI
Figured your dyno's were calibrated differently.
03-25-08, 08:02 PM
#27
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ill def be tuning for 16psi then! i think my twins will actually last a while.. there exceptionally clean and are like brand new.. i think they will hold up.. I hope :-)
360-370 at the wheels will be plenty and honesty 3200 rpm for boost is nothing compared to what i was figureing at first.. i was thinking 4500 rpm roughly so i think non seq will be perfect for me and my goals.. (for now)
360-370 at the wheels will be plenty and honesty 3200 rpm for boost is nothing compared to what i was figureing at first.. i was thinking 4500 rpm roughly so i think non seq will be perfect for me and my goals.. (for now)
03-25-08, 08:34 PM
#28
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The one thing I did hear is that the gas in European countries is cleaner than our gas in North America. Don't know if there is any truth to this but I have heard it time and time again.
03-26-08, 04:41 AM
#30
To exceed 1 bar of boost properly you need a 3 bar MAP sensor, the stock sensor is a 2 bar and can only read 1 bar of boost. Only people that are really cutting corners try to trick the PFC. Map sensors are really inexpensive in comparison to motors.
03-26-08, 07:50 AM
#31
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i think that is correct bonzai dont you sell the gm 3 bar map upgrade? if so ill be callin you in the next few days.
if all else its the peice of mind that ill be gaining.. better safe than sorry.
if all else its the peice of mind that ill be gaining.. better safe than sorry.
03-26-08, 09:28 AM
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03-26-08, 09:32 AM
#33
Not sure if you know this (a lot of people do not) but your 98 Octane in the UK is equal to our 93 Octane here in North America. Octane is not calculated the same in Europe and North America. You guys use Ron and we use AKI. RON = Research Octane Number and AKI = Anti-Knock Index.
RON Octane x 0.95 = AKI
RON Octane x 0.95 = AKI
I think what you mean is that we use RON and MON to calculate our AKI and they only use RON to calculate their AKI
(RON+MON)/2
It is written on every pump.
At least you guys get 93. I gotta use 91 =(
03-26-08, 11:59 AM
#37
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I just found this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2.
03-26-08, 01:05 PM
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usually you're on the money, mahjik, but there are many seasoned vets on this forum (and outside this forum) who disagree with you, based on direct experience....again, why risk it? accurate quanitification of boost pressure is of paramount importance to the life of these engines
if you're over 1 bar, you need to upgrade
if you're over 1 bar, you need to upgrade
03-26-08, 02:02 PM
#39
usually you're on the money, mahjik, but there are many seasoned vets on this forum (and outside this forum) who disagree with you, based on direct experience....again, why risk it? accurate quanitification of boost pressure is of paramount importance to the life of these engines
if you're over 1 bar, you need to upgrade
if you're over 1 bar, you need to upgrade
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=18
That's from someone who has done it and produce more power with the stock twins than anyone else reporting on this forum.
"Safe" is a relative term, just like with injector duty cycles. Some people think 80% is too high, some people think 90% is just right. Relative, no right or wrong.
03-26-08, 05:01 PM
#42
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I think a lot comes down to stable boost control. In my case, even with the ported wg on the BNRs, I crept to 18 or so psi, and that was all she wrote......we install a 3 bar for any customer who plans to run more than 15 or so psi.
03-26-08, 06:23 PM
#44
Have people exceeded 1 bar on the stock map sensor? Yes
Is it the correct way to go about doing it? No
It is not like the PFC hits a brick wall when you have exceded the reading limits of the map sensor, it doesn't even limit the boost, it just defaults to row 20. If you think this is properly tuned you are wrong, just because a guy did it in 2004 doesn't mean anything, just think how much better his tune could have been.
Is it the correct way to go about doing it? No
It is not like the PFC hits a brick wall when you have exceded the reading limits of the map sensor, it doesn't even limit the boost, it just defaults to row 20. If you think this is properly tuned you are wrong, just because a guy did it in 2004 doesn't mean anything, just think how much better his tune could have been.
03-26-08, 07:45 PM
#46
Have people exceeded 1 bar on the stock map sensor? Yes
Is it the correct way to go about doing it? No
It is not like the PFC hits a brick wall when you have exceded the reading limits of the map sensor, it doesn't even limit the boost, it just defaults to row 20. If you think this is properly tuned you are wrong, just because a guy did it in 2004 doesn't mean anything, just think how much better his tune could have been.
Is it the correct way to go about doing it? No
It is not like the PFC hits a brick wall when you have exceded the reading limits of the map sensor, it doesn't even limit the boost, it just defaults to row 20. If you think this is properly tuned you are wrong, just because a guy did it in 2004 doesn't mean anything, just think how much better his tune could have been.
As far as "how much better could his tune have been", I haven't seen anyone produce numbers over his with the same configuration 3-bar or not. So I'd say his tune was pretty darn good. If you think you can do better, build a car similar to his setup back then and show us the numbers. I'd be all for taking a look at the data.
Once again, if you can't win, bring up something which as nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Mark, you don't tune your own car, so does that make you "better" just because own a PFC? I think not. If you do, then you aren't as Christian as you make yourself out to be.
03-26-08, 08:18 PM
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I ran the Pettit ECU for many years, so I'm not really knocking that, just joking around, but I wasn't running over one bar boost, either; there have been enough reports of flaky boost readings with the stock sensor above one bar (from Steve Kan and Brian Cain as well) that I don't see why anyone would mess with it
running over 80% duty cycle on the injectors is not a good analogy because that can be precisely measured and tracked; whereas with the stock boost sensor, the accuracy of the data itself is in question above 1 bar!
running over 80% duty cycle on the injectors is not a good analogy because that can be precisely measured and tracked; whereas with the stock boost sensor, the accuracy of the data itself is in question above 1 bar!
03-26-08, 08:38 PM
#48
IMO, people concentrate too much on little things like this rather than bigger things (i.e. charge temps, controlling boost, etc). People spend their money, time and effort in the wrong places. While a 3-bar sensor is not all that much money in the grand scheme of things, I'd suggest that money to go other places first.
03-26-08, 10:04 PM
#49
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How hard is it to install a 3-bar sensor? is it one of those things that would require (or at least recommend) a re-tune?
Come the 16th-17th of April I'm upgrading/installing to BNR Stage 3's (new version) with full bells and whistles (fuel, free flow, monitoring, etc) and was planning on tuning to 16 or 17 psi. Just curious if this is one of those things I could (if need be) put on at a later date for full effect, or would the ECU need to be tuned with it in place to reap real benefits?
Come the 16th-17th of April I'm upgrading/installing to BNR Stage 3's (new version) with full bells and whistles (fuel, free flow, monitoring, etc) and was planning on tuning to 16 or 17 psi. Just curious if this is one of those things I could (if need be) put on at a later date for full effect, or would the ECU need to be tuned with it in place to reap real benefits?