Bridgeported

SR20 is one of the best Japanese 4cyls ever made (SR20, 4G63, 4AGZE) so if he wants to swap a 4cyl he made the right choice.

Why not just buy an S13 240sx and do the SR20 swap with it? It's a 100% bolt in 1-day job, and probably about 1/10th the cost too. The only reason I can figure out is to have the FD looks.

jdhuegel1

Sweet SIG bridgeported!

Shinobi-X

It's cool, I know we have people who make stupid remarks, but don't worry about them. I'm sure what your doing makes YOU happy.

I've seen the japanese tuners do it. When I get home, I'll find and post some links.

240Z TwinTurbo

Come on, just trying to rattle your cages and I don't plan on invading any other posts on this forum, just the one regarding this swap. I like the apples-oranges comparison of a full race rotary motor on alchohol to my buddies street L6 on pump gas. BTW, having a powerband between 4700-6300 is very workable with a 5speed tranny. He has a very mild cam and still runs the stock cast manifold. His new header and cam will give peak power in the 7300rpm range.

When you say the rotary motor is what makes it special, do you also get a special pin you can wear on your shirt to signify this? That is so cute!
I have nothing against rotisserie motors. As a matter of fact, my good friend Marcus Williams in Houston has a Pro-Outlaw RX-7 powered by some massive twins.

MaxRX7

ok, that's just fucked up.

there is a 240Z with a 13b-REW and now this a FD with a SR20DeT
am I the only one that see's something totally wrong here ?

240Z TwinTurbo

Calm down, that is not a 13B in a 240Z. What I said was a Pro-Outlaw RX7 with the twins. So, the 2nd picture is of a twin 60-1 powered 13B in a Pro-Outlaw RX7 chasis.

rpm_pwr

My point was to show the peakiest motor I could find and show that it's still got a wider powerband than the one posted, let alone any SR20.

I'm not trying to show of all out power here, just how much wider the power band (and hence flatter the torque curve) you get when starting with more displacement.

Good example. Notice how much flatter that curve was? That car would be s#$tload more driveable (gas aside) than the 280z posted.

BTW I really hope you're not trying to say that is the best a 13b can do or anything.

-pete

rpm_pwr

If they can make a 3s-gte push a supra anything can be done

-pete

Brad

No, not at all. I guess I kinda misunderstood your reason for posting the crispeed info.

I thought you we're trying to make a driveability comparison between this supposed street driven SR20 and crispeeds alcohol drag car.

rynberg

Here is a typical example of the point I brought up with the initial thread re: this project. Why swap out a low-end torque engine for an even peakier engine? I understand the reasoning behind the LT-1/LS-1 swap - low end torque.

The car above is a textbook "dyno queen". I don't care what anyone says, that power curve is NOT streetable and I doubt it's fun to drive except for highway runs. Too many of you guys place too much importance on the peak numbers achieved instead of a broad powerband.

EDIT: TNT, I apologize for helping to hi-jack your thread. I don't agree with what you are doing but I appreciate the skill behind it and desire to be different.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

oh ****, here we go again on the motor swapping issue!

tnt

It's cool, I actually like the debate when it is constructive

Thanx,
Shaun

Silex

Very interesting. BTW, I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack...

KiDyNomiTe

You are partially right, except for where you put that sr20 in your examples list. Last time I checked the SR20 came in cars that had pretty good handling/body charecteristics, sure the silvia is not better than the RX7, but it holds its own.

Lets also keep in mind that Datsuns 240Z, 260Z, and 280Zs, are used the most for engine swaps. They have various V8s, RBs, 2Jzs, 3sgtes, sr20s, and a bunch other.

tnt: good luck on your project, I am not all for cross breeding and all that, but I would do it. If I had an RX7 I prolly would keep the Rotary in there, but that is just becuase it would be easier to put the SR in an S-Chasis car.

But I want to get a 240Z and put a 2JZ in it, and get an S13 and put a CA18 in it. There is no room in my bill for an RX7, but I can always dream right

240Z TwinTurbo

Can we use bad words on this forum? Cool! Can you say tool? So the stock 13B revs to 10Gs? NOT! Apples to Oranges mr Tool. OK, I am sorry...you are not a tool...you wear that pin that says you are special! Let me think, can the SR20rev to 10G's....hmmmm.....YES, but not in stock form. If you are going to make a comparison then atleast compare a street car with a street car. Also, you missed the intent of the dyno post? Hmmm you say. Well, it was to show 400++hp on pump gas, not the power band of a Datsun L6 motor which is not the SR20DET motor my 'special' friend. That car is in Michigan, I drove it, and it is very streetable. It would most likely stomp a mudhole in your *** if you raced it. BTW, it is a road racing car with some serious abilities. Why would it not be steetable and what is peaky about carrying 400RWHP from 4700rpm to 6200rpm? The torque is peaky, but torque gets you there and hp keeps you going. You have no basis to say the powerband is not streetable and you have pulled this out of your *** based on what you think it might feel like. Anyway, I appreciate all the posts that atleast recognize the intent of the project and results that will follow. The car is STILL an RX7 and rumor has it that Ford, I mean Mazda, will replace the rotary with the SR20DET next year! HEHE!

rpm_pwr

What are you rambling about? Where did he make a comparason? Where is this "10g's" from??

He rather stupidly assumed that in a side issue about 13b vs sr20det high power durability, your post had SOMETHING to do with the topic. Instead you posted a dyno from a different car, with a different engine in an unrelated topic. Well done.

You have no idea. A 1500rpm wide powerband and <1000rpm wide torque band is going to feel peaky. That's obvious. Give me your friends gear ratios and I'll tell you exaclty how undriveable it really is.


-pete

rynberg

I don't even know where to begin.

*Where did I say anything about 10000 rpm? What does that have to do with anything?

*apples to oranges? I assumed the dyno plot you posted was from an sr20det, since that was the focus of the thread. Silly me.

*Not peaky? I think by anyone's stretch of the imagination, a 1500 rpm wide powerband is pretty damn peaky. Especially since the torque jumps 200 lb-ft in 500 rpm. I hope whoever road races the car doesn't drop to 3500 rpm in a corner....

*And where exactly do you fit in this thread anyway. This is TNT's project and he has defended himself well without coming off like a, dare I say, tool? Who are you to the project? I don't join forums about cars I know nothing about and start insulting people. I help people all of the time on this forum and like to think I make a positive contribution. And what have you contributed? Next time, show a little class and respect.

BTW, I have nothing against the SR20DET motor. I enjoyed it's FWD cousin in my SE-R for four years. I also notice that you are a PhD student at FSU (at least, that's what you claim in your profile). You would think some maturity and class would come from that but I guess not.

EDIT: Again, I apologize to TNT for clogging up your thread. I won't do it again.

Thxbrett

iTrader: (1)

This seems to me to be one of the coolest projects I have seen yet attempted on the 3rd gen RX-7 (20B install being the Ultimate) If the RX-7 had come with the SR-20DET, 4G63T or 3SGTE then I would probably still own one. Unfortunatley it comes with a fantastic, tempermental, powerful, easily upgradeable, short lived motor. To be able to keep the beautiful shape of the car, plus the excellent handling and braking and perhaps see over 20 MPG and 400 horsepower on pump gas, without worrying about hearing and knock! Spectacular! For everyone saying its awful that a non rotary is going in a 7 I understand your point. I also understand going through 3 rotary motors in 75000 miles, leaking oil like a stuck pig, more heat than a white dwarf, inadequate cooling system design, poor turbo manifold design, gas mileage comparable to a Diablo etc etc. Thats why I can understand this project and wish you well on its completion. I searched for 3 months for a 95+ Nissan 240 SX SE 5 speed to do a S15 Silvia conversion on. Couldn't find one, so I bought a 97 slow GSX Mitsu piece of trash. What the hell was I thinking?? Should have looked harder for the Nissan.

Brett.
1997 GSX Stock (to slow for words)
1988 323 GT turbo (fast as hell)

tnt

First off I do not have to defend myself to any of you, this is my car and as such I can do what I want with it! 240Z twin turbo is a good friend of mine that has helped a ton with my project being that he was an engineer at NASA and is now here getting his PHD he has great access to FSU and all of its tooling. I told him not to lower himself to the level of alot of the people on this board however he did but unlike those people he back up a stupid comment with info, I am all for the debate if I wasn't I would not put it on here. However the reality is that most of the people that make these stupid comments can't change thier own oil... Either way no clogging going on keep the debate going..

Shaun

ttpowerd

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=132409

Here is a thread about Marcus' setup.

FstFD3SPOWER

Glad u dind't use HONDA motor...

that would be really reall F**k up thing to do...lol
good luck...

Brad

Actually, if I remember correctly tnt DID want to use a Honda motor originally....

240Z TwinTurbo

The funny thing is, I always post with a smile on my face knowing it is all in fun. Admittingly, I try to get a rise out of folks as that is part of my humor. I can see that people don't read what is written and just pull comments out of thin air.
He posted a link to the dyno results of a 13B race motor on methanol that redlined at 10G's(AKA 10,000RPM) to make a comparison of the broad powerband of the 13B as compared to the SR20DET.

NO, NO well done on your abilities to read. I clearly posted this to show that 400hp from a Nissan motor was obtainable on pump gas. Whether is was the Nissan L6 or I4 is not the point.

I'm BATMAN! I helped to build the crossmember, steering rack/swaybar mount, working on possible Ackraman angle(sp?) issues(AKA bump steer in reality), fabbing the header, and raising your bloodpressure.

rpm_pwr

Maybe we think more alike than I thought

Actually that was me. I wanted to show that the peakiest 13b I could find still had a fatter power band. 10krpm is by no means record breaking for a rotary, I wasn't trying to say that. Feel free to browse the single turbo section to see some dyno curves from 400hp+ rx-7's. You'll see what I'm saying then.

And you work for NASA? ROFL! Nothing important I hope Showing a motor of substantially more capacity getting 400hp on pump gas achieves nothing. Do you want me to post a 400HP mazda industrial motor? BTW I take it you know that that motor is mismatched to the turbo? It looks like the engine (head I suppose) is just not keeping up with the flow. You cannot get a turbo these days with an efficiency range that narrow!

-pete

YayeR

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
[B]
We don't fool around here in Tallahassee.


[IMG]



that was a joke... right?