Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

Hey guys im seriously thinking about giving up on trying to pass smog, I just dont think it's possible. I recently noticed California lowered the limits for emissions for the FD's in the past 4-5 months

NEW LIMITS as of 6-24-2010:

HC's (PPM)---61 MAX@15 mph
HC's (PPM)---37 MAX@25 mph

CO (%)---0.36 MAX@15 mph
CO (%)---0.35 MAX@25 mph





OLD LIMITS as of 1-12-2010:

HC's (PPM)---88 MAX@15 mph
HC's (PPM)---53 MAX@25 mph

CO (%)---0.52 MAX@15mph
CO (%)---0.50 MAX@25mph

The first time I passed smog back in 2008 my HC's were at 46 and CO was 34, which would have BARLEY passed me with todays current changes. I mean a few RPM to high or low and i'd fail. I wanna also mention that I had a working air pump and a BRAND NEW high flow cat.

I just think its physically impossible to LEGALLY pass an FD these days. If anybody is passing smog with their FD's I'd really love to hear it. I may have to park this, cancel my insurance, file for non-op and buy a second car, because I dont think I can do this anymore.

Getting this car to pass smog legally is harder then when I performed a full vacuum hose job, replaced the clutch and dropped the tranny, replaced the rear main seal and replaced the rear stationary gear 0 ring. I really don't know what else to do

arghx

iTrader: (3)

What cat were you using? Ceramic or Metal substrate?

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

I'm using a random technology metal substrate. I bought it about 2 years ago My HC's when I first installed the cat with a non functioning air pump were 87PPM@15mph and 59PPM@25mph.

Now, with a non functioning air pump 2 years later HC's are 535PPM@15mph and 229PPM@25mph

Gryffinwings

iTrader: (3)

Metal Substrate cats are not as efficient as cleaning as the regular cats, so going back to a stock type would be better, and getting you air pump working again would be a good idea.

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

I cant afford $1,200-1,400 for a new oem converter. And if my converter went bad in 2 years, there is another serious problem going on, I just dont know where to start

Gryffinwings

iTrader: (3)

Is this a modded engine or a stock one? Has a tune up been done? Basically when was the car worked on last?

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Here are my numbers from a few years ago with a stock cat (with high, unknown miles on the cat):

Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)______
______RPM_MEAS__MEAS__MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEAS _MAX__AVE__MEAS
15mph_1768_14.30__0.80_|_88__21___22__|_0.52__0.06__0.01_|_704__150__167
25mph_2922_14.40__0.50_|_53__13____6__|_0.50__0.05__0.24_|_738__136___87

I have seen numbers with the stock cat (or the Bonez) much lower than these so passing should be ok if the car is running fine and the cat is in good shape. Spark plugs and the O2 sensor are the main reason for failure I think.

For comparison, here a test of same setup with an SMB metallic:

Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)_____
_______RPM_MEAS__MEAS__MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEA S_MAX__AVE__MEAS
15mph_1771_14.69__0.16_|_88__21__120__|_0.52__0.06__0.57_|_704__150__245
25mph_2034_14.70__0.11_|_53__13__106__|_0.50__0.05__0.65_|_738__136__201

I don't think these cars can pass with metallic cats (short of some PFC tuning).

Air pump is an absolute must.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

See this post about a study that was done on metallic vs ceramic substrate cats: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=34

The metallic substrates do tend to flow better but they are not as efficient under the conditions that are used for many emissions tests.

BillM

iTrader: (4)

and I'm close to moving to Cali from NJ?! If my FD isn't welcome, I ain't goin...

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

Well I have done a LOT of work recently and instead of going into a long summary of whats been done in the past few months i'll post up this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/west-rx-7-forum-193/my-current-build-thread-w-pics-907217/

Even if the SMB metallic cats dont work as well, I still dont think a new cat will bring 535 PPM HC's down to below 61, Theres gotta be something else wrong. I know the Air Injection has an issue, so im gonna start with that and work on it today.

The engine is stock

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Why not buy a good second hand cat? Dirt cheap. Readily available. You could probably get a good used air pump too. You'd win. I promise.

Edit: Or, for the cost of those parts I bet you could find someone on this forum that would "help" you pass smog.

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

I do still have a problem with my idle however. Its pretty high its about 1200-1300 rpm and I think I have a vacuum leak somewhere, but then sometimes the idle will drop down to 750 when it feels like it so idk if this is related to the leak in the air injection system or not and this MAY also be related to me failing smog.

My air pump works, that's not the problem, the problem is the air from the air pump is not making it to the cat. I suppose I need to fix that problem first, then retest the car and see what happens next.

mattdavispv9

iTrader: (7)

In my neck of the woods, people will pass a smog for $200....

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

I definitely had intermittent idle problems resulting from a vacuum leak. Sometimes fine, sometimes not fine.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

I don't see how it is legal to change the requirements on a car after it's been set. C.A.R.B. needs to be abolished with a class action law suit.

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

What turned out the be the problem?

wstrohm

FWIW,

Here are results of emission tests in Orange County, CA, on our '94 FD in July 2008. The car had 96,060 miles, a slight vacuum leak from a deteriorated LIM-to-rotor housing gasket, no pre-cat, 23,400 miles on a replacement stock cat, 3600 miles on plugs.

Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)______
_______RPM_MEAS__MEAS_MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEAS _MAX__AVE__MEAS
15mph_1795_14.70___0.0_|_88__21___74__|_0.52__0.06 __0.52_|_704__150__41
25mph_2869_14.90___0.0_|_53__13___23__|_0.50__0.05 __0.24_|_738__136__58

As you can see, the CO is right at spec at 15 mph. The LIM gasket has since been replaced with the upgraded stainless steel version (original was fiberboard and blown out). I'm hoping the next test will look better. Had much trouble passing in 2002; a new Bonez cat failed, had to buy a stock cat. (I think the stock cat's internal distribution of air from the air pump is better than in after market cats.)

Ernesto13B

iTrader: (4)

How much did you get a used stock cat for, and what was rough mileage on the cat?

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

Ernesto13B.. This is united States of America which means $$$ talks. You have people in this country that will sell their soul for some money.. I am 100% sure you can find some shop to pass inspection for your car if the price is right.

Besides, Its probably cheaper to pay a couple of hundred dollars than to spend$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ trying to make your car pass.

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

it ain't welcome. I hate to break it to you but you better be in stock trim or don't bring it. unless you can keep it registered out of state like the rest of us.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

if you're close by, i have a bunch of low mile main cats...

air pump air is CRITICAL. all we do with the FC's is make SURE it is getting PORT AIR....

my FC did:

15mph HC 8 and CO 0.05
25mph HC 9 and CO 0.07

and that was on 12 year old gas!

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Even if you did purchase a brand new OEM converter and it cost $1200, isn't that still less than purchasing a second car?

And being worried about the OEM cat failing and having to purchase a new one 2 years down the road doesn't make sense. Just put the stock exhaust on, pass emissions, and then go back to your current setup until you have to pass again. I don't see the problem?

*RX007*

iTrader: (4)

I just pasted a week ago. with my original cat, working air pump, and non ported engine. but I was right at the limit. I actually went to one place and halfway through the tes the tech told me his newer machine cant read the rotary engine rpms

millennm

iTrader: (6)

I wish there was a way of getting emissions readings in your own garage.

R1_stormrider

thank god i live in TX. they do not check for emissions where i live.