NEW emission standards for the FD's
Hey guys im seriously thinking about giving up on trying to pass smog, I just dont think it's possible. I recently noticed California lowered the limits for emissions for the FD's in the past 4-5 months
NEW LIMITS as of 6-24-2010: HC's (PPM)---61 MAX@15 mph HC's (PPM)---37 MAX@25 mph CO (%)---0.36 MAX@15 mph CO (%)---0.35 MAX@25 mph OLD LIMITS as of 1-12-2010: HC's (PPM)---88 MAX@15 mph HC's (PPM)---53 MAX@25 mph CO (%)---0.52 MAX@15mph CO (%)---0.50 MAX@25mph The first time I passed smog back in 2008 my HC's were at 46 and CO was 34, which would have BARLEY passed me with todays current changes. I mean a few RPM to high or low and i'd fail. I wanna also mention that I had a working air pump and a BRAND NEW high flow cat. I just think its physically impossible to LEGALLY pass an FD these days. If anybody is passing smog with their FD's I'd really love to hear it. I may have to park this, cancel my insurance, file for non-op and buy a second car, because I dont think I can do this anymore. Getting this car to pass smog legally is harder then when I performed a full vacuum hose job, replaced the clutch and dropped the tranny, replaced the rear main seal and replaced the rear stationary gear 0 ring. I really don't know what else to do :( |
What cat were you using? Ceramic or Metal substrate?
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I'm using a random technology metal substrate. I bought it about 2 years ago My HC's when I first installed the cat with a non functioning air pump were 87PPM@15mph and 59PPM@25mph.
Now, with a non functioning air pump 2 years later HC's are 535PPM@15mph and 229PPM@25mph |
Metal Substrate cats are not as efficient as cleaning as the regular cats, so going back to a stock type would be better, and getting you air pump working again would be a good idea.
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I cant afford $1,200-1,400 for a new oem converter. And if my converter went bad in 2 years, there is another serious problem going on, I just dont know where to start
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Is this a modded engine or a stock one? Has a tune up been done? Basically when was the car worked on last?
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Here are my numbers from a few years ago with a stock cat (with high, unknown miles on the cat):
Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)______ ______RPM_MEAS__MEAS__MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEAS _MAX__AVE__MEAS 15mph_1768_14.30__0.80_|_88__21___22__|_0.52__0.06__0.01_|_704__150__167 25mph_2922_14.40__0.50_|_53__13____6__|_0.50__0.05__0.24_|_738__136___87 I have seen numbers with the stock cat (or the Bonez) much lower than these so passing should be ok if the car is running fine and the cat is in good shape. Spark plugs and the O2 sensor are the main reason for failure I think. For comparison, here a test of same setup with an SMB metallic: Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)_____ _______RPM_MEAS__MEAS__MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEA S_MAX__AVE__MEAS 15mph_1771_14.69__0.16_|_88__21__120__|_0.52__0.06__0.57_|_704__150__245 25mph_2034_14.70__0.11_|_53__13__106__|_0.50__0.05__0.65_|_738__136__201 I don't think these cars can pass with metallic cats (short of some PFC tuning). Air pump is an absolute must. |
See this post about a study that was done on metallic vs ceramic substrate cats: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=34
The metallic substrates do tend to flow better but they are not as efficient under the conditions that are used for many emissions tests. |
and I'm close to moving to Cali from NJ?! If my FD isn't welcome, I ain't goin...
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Well I have done a LOT of work recently and instead of going into a long summary of whats been done in the past few months i'll post up this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/west-rx-7-forum-193/my-current-build-thread-w-pics-907217/ Even if the SMB metallic cats dont work as well, I still dont think a new cat will bring 535 PPM HC's down to below 61, Theres gotta be something else wrong. I know the Air Injection has an issue, so im gonna start with that and work on it today. The engine is stock |
Why not buy a good second hand cat? Dirt cheap. Readily available. You could probably get a good used air pump too. You'd win. I promise.
Edit: Or, for the cost of those parts I bet you could find someone on this forum that would "help" you pass smog. |
I do still have a problem with my idle however. Its pretty high its about 1200-1300 rpm and I think I have a vacuum leak somewhere, but then sometimes the idle will drop down to 750 when it feels like it so idk if this is related to the leak in the air injection system or not and this MAY also be related to me failing smog.
My air pump works, that's not the problem, the problem is the air from the air pump is not making it to the cat. I suppose I need to fix that problem first, then retest the car and see what happens next. |
Originally Posted by Barban
(Post 10077765)
Why not buy a good second hand cat? Dirt cheap. Readily available. You could probably get a good used air pump too. You'd win. I promise.
Edit: Or, for the cost of those parts I bet you could find someone on this forum that would "help" you pass smog. |
Originally Posted by Ernesto13B
(Post 10077803)
I do still have a problem with my idle however. Its pretty high its about 1200-1300 rpm and I think I have a vacuum leak somewhere, but then sometimes the idle will drop down to 750 when it feels like it so idk if this is related to the leak in the air injection system or not and this MAY also be related to me failing smog.
My air pump works, that's not the problem, the problem is the air from the air pump is not making it to the cat. I suppose I need to fix that problem first, then retest the car and see what happens next. |
I don't see how it is legal to change the requirements on a car after it's been set. C.A.R.B. needs to be abolished with a class action law suit.
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Originally Posted by Barban
(Post 10077887)
I definitely had intermittent idle problems resulting from a vacuum leak. Sometimes fine, sometimes not fine.
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FWIW,
Here are results of emission tests in Orange County, CA, on our '94 FD in July 2008. The car had 96,060 miles, a slight vacuum leak from a deteriorated LIM-to-rotor housing gasket, no pre-cat, 23,400 miles on a replacement stock cat, 3600 miles on plugs. Test________CO2%__O2%______HC(PPM)________CO%_____ ____NO(PPM)______ _______RPM_MEAS__MEAS_MAX_AVE_MEAS__MAX__AVE__MEAS _MAX__AVE__MEAS 15mph_1795_14.70___0.0_|_88__21___74__|_0.52__0.06 __0.52_|_704__150__41 25mph_2869_14.90___0.0_|_53__13___23__|_0.50__0.05 __0.24_|_738__136__58 As you can see, the CO is right at spec at 15 mph. The LIM gasket has since been replaced with the upgraded stainless steel version (original was fiberboard and blown out). I'm hoping the next test will look better. Had much trouble passing in 2002; a new Bonez cat failed, had to buy a stock cat. (I think the stock cat's internal distribution of air from the air pump is better than in after market cats.) |
How much did you get a used stock cat for, and what was rough mileage on the cat?
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Ernesto13B.. This is united States of America which means $$$ talks. You have people in this country that will sell their soul for some money.. I am 100% sure you can find some shop to pass inspection for your car if the price is right.
Besides, Its probably cheaper to pay a couple of hundred dollars than to spend$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ trying to make your car pass. |
Originally Posted by BillM
(Post 10077668)
and I'm close to moving to Cali from NJ?! If my FD isn't welcome, I ain't goin...
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if you're close by, i have a bunch of low mile main cats...
air pump air is CRITICAL. all we do with the FC's is make SURE it is getting PORT AIR.... my FC did: 15mph HC 8 and CO 0.05 25mph HC 9 and CO 0.07 and that was on 12 year old gas! |
Originally Posted by Ernesto13B
(Post 10077525)
I just think its physically impossible to LEGALLY pass an FD these days. If anybody is passing smog with their FD's I'd really love to hear it. I may have to park this, cancel my insurance, file for non-op and buy a second car, because I dont think I can do this anymore.
Originally Posted by Ernesto13B
(Post 10077612)
I cant afford $1,200-1,400 for a new oem converter. And if my converter went bad in 2 years, there is another serious problem going on, I just dont know where to start
And being worried about the OEM cat failing and having to purchase a new one 2 years down the road doesn't make sense. Just put the stock exhaust on, pass emissions, and then go back to your current setup until you have to pass again. I don't see the problem? |
I just pasted a week ago. with my original cat, working air pump, and non ported engine. but I was right at the limit. I actually went to one place and halfway through the tes the tech told me his newer machine cant read the rotary engine rpms
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I wish there was a way of getting emissions readings in your own garage.
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thank god i live in TX. they do not check for emissions where i live. :icon_tup:
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