Looking for opinions on cooling off intercooler
09-03-22, 10:15 PM
#51
I think its more that hes saying price out an FD hood and research peoples vented hood results before you start cutting up your FD.
Good option-
There are a bunch of cheap aftermarket vented hoods out there in many configurations.
Or buy a knackered hood to cut up for the vent and then if it works do the bodywork to make it look good.
Good option-
There are a bunch of cheap aftermarket vented hoods out there in many configurations.
Or buy a knackered hood to cut up for the vent and then if it works do the bodywork to make it look good.
Cut holes between the bracing
Wrapped it in black
No numbers but in traffic I can see the heat pouring out
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mr2peak (09-04-22)
09-04-22, 07:55 AM
#52
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
i did some work as to getting nothing but outside air to my airfilter last year.
i bought a 4 inch 45 degree plastic plumbing (?) piece and attached it directly to the silicone coupler at my compressor flange. i removed my hood. i attached my 9 by 7 inch K&N filter. the entire filter was above all parts of the car. prior to relocating my filter i did an underhood temp check. my filter is semi partioned from my IC and rad. underhood temps at my filter were 105 and on the other side of the partition were 20 F higher.
i have data at 5500 rpm and 6000 rpm with the boost control off/9180... around 14 psi, 100% tps,
at 6000
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 305.82. with the hood off 260.9.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 158.87 w hood on and 138.26 w the hood off.
ambient temps (that's outside air) hood on 73.5, hood off 66 so it was almost 8 F cooler for the hood off. we will need to remove this hood off advantage to do a fair compare.
at 5500
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 296.23. with the hood off 249.3.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 162.43 w the hood on and 139.3 w the hood off
same ambient as above.
after adjusting for the lower ambient when the hood was off the IAT advantage was 13.11 at 6000 and 15.13 at 5500.
if your airfilter is closer to your IC you might have a larger gain.
based on the improvement i decided not to butcher my hood and look elsewhere
i bought a 4 inch 45 degree plastic plumbing (?) piece and attached it directly to the silicone coupler at my compressor flange. i removed my hood. i attached my 9 by 7 inch K&N filter. the entire filter was above all parts of the car. prior to relocating my filter i did an underhood temp check. my filter is semi partioned from my IC and rad. underhood temps at my filter were 105 and on the other side of the partition were 20 F higher.
i have data at 5500 rpm and 6000 rpm with the boost control off/9180... around 14 psi, 100% tps,
at 6000
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 305.82. with the hood off 260.9.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 158.87 w hood on and 138.26 w the hood off.
ambient temps (that's outside air) hood on 73.5, hood off 66 so it was almost 8 F cooler for the hood off. we will need to remove this hood off advantage to do a fair compare.
at 5500
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 296.23. with the hood off 249.3.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 162.43 w the hood on and 139.3 w the hood off
same ambient as above.
after adjusting for the lower ambient when the hood was off the IAT advantage was 13.11 at 6000 and 15.13 at 5500.
if your airfilter is closer to your IC you might have a larger gain.
based on the improvement i decided not to butcher my hood and look elsewhere
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 09-06-22 at 01:32 PM.
09-04-22, 08:24 AM
#53
i did some work as to getting nothing but outside air to my airfilter last year.
i bought a 4 inch 45 degree plastic plumbing (?) piece and attached it directly to the silicone coupler at my compressor flange. i removed my hood. i attached my 9 by 7 inch K&N filter. the entire filter was above all parts of the car. prior to relocating my filter i did an underhood temp check. my filter is semi partioned from my IC and rad. underhood temps at my filter were 105 and on the other side of the partition were 20 F higher.
i have data at 5500 rpm and 6000 rpm with the boost control off/9180... around 14 psi, 100% tps,
at 6000
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 305.82. with the hood off 260.9.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 158.87 w hood on and 138.26 w the hood off.
ambient temps hood on 73.5, hood off 66 so it was almost 8 F cooler for the hood off.
at 5500
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 296.23. with the hood off 249.3.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 162.43 w the hood on and 139.3 w the hood off
same ambient as above.
after adjusting for the lower ambient when the hood was off the IAT advantage was 13.11 at 6000 and 15.13 at 5500.
if your airfilter is closer to your IC you ight have a larger gain.
based on the improvement i decided not to butcher my hood and look elsewhere
i bought a 4 inch 45 degree plastic plumbing (?) piece and attached it directly to the silicone coupler at my compressor flange. i removed my hood. i attached my 9 by 7 inch K&N filter. the entire filter was above all parts of the car. prior to relocating my filter i did an underhood temp check. my filter is semi partioned from my IC and rad. underhood temps at my filter were 105 and on the other side of the partition were 20 F higher.
i have data at 5500 rpm and 6000 rpm with the boost control off/9180... around 14 psi, 100% tps,
at 6000
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 305.82. with the hood off 260.9.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 158.87 w hood on and 138.26 w the hood off.
ambient temps hood on 73.5, hood off 66 so it was almost 8 F cooler for the hood off.
at 5500
air temps immediately out of the compressor, before the IC, with the hood on averaged 296.23. with the hood off 249.3.
IAT, measured at the OE location were 162.43 w the hood on and 139.3 w the hood off
same ambient as above.
after adjusting for the lower ambient when the hood was off the IAT advantage was 13.11 at 6000 and 15.13 at 5500.
if your airfilter is closer to your IC you ight have a larger gain.
based on the improvement i decided not to butcher my hood and look elsewhere
09-04-22, 09:29 AM
#54
Vented hood is the way to go. That little fan would do little to nothing if you dont have a vented hood.
1. Get a good v mount set up with the air filter away from the hot zone(turbo) and well ducted.
2. Get a vented hood. The openings should be by or over intercooler and turbo.
3. Water/meth injection just works.
The fan doesnt work without vented hood.
I had a fan on the intercooler and i didnt see any differense . To me, the fan on intercooler is a waste of efort and money.
1. Get a good v mount set up with the air filter away from the hot zone(turbo) and well ducted.
2. Get a vented hood. The openings should be by or over intercooler and turbo.
3. Water/meth injection just works.
The fan doesnt work without vented hood.
I had a fan on the intercooler and i didnt see any differense . To me, the fan on intercooler is a waste of efort and money.
Last edited by Red94fd; 09-04-22 at 09:42 AM.
09-06-22, 11:48 AM
#55
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
" visual of the air filter set up?"
my engine bay as of a few months ago. while the key lime pie colored foam wasn't my first color choice it does work and closes against the hood which is louvered. the area between the frame rails and radiator is open to outside air from the nose. i have measured a 20 F diff on each side of the partition.. during covid i made an aluminum duct, pretty complicated to better grab the nose air but haven't quite tuned it up to my liking.
note my EFR 9180 replacement, a G40-1150. i am told there are none available til November... it has a 4 inch outlet so i had to pick up a welder and some bends etc. i have it reduced back to 3 inches at the bottom of the DP. yes i probably would gain a smidge w a larger exhaust but i am not into loud exhausts. i will leave a few hp on the table. i also love my exhaust... a Borla #40944 SS straight thru mid and a Racing Beat single rear. WG into DP.
one feature of the G40 that i really like is that BOTH ends of the bearing housing are V banded. because of this i can bolt my manifold to the motor on my engine stand so the nuts can be properly torqued. i can the bolt the hotside housing to the manifold and actually get at all four bolts properly. i then drop the engine in and at some point just add the remaining parts of the turbo and cinch the V band. love it.
note my quarter inch slab of Mica which solves the toasted lower intake runners problem. the picture shows the typical rubber seal between the duct and the IC. that is history and replaced w a silver 360 F tape so the core can see no air other than thru the duct. i have relocated my 1650 CFM Spal fan to the proper position which is as close to the pass side of the core, where the IC is hottest. i added a second smaller Spal fan 550 cfm on the driver's side. my Greddy R BOV is on the driver's side end tank so as to not to disturb flow. the outlet points down so as to vent (hot) charge air out of the engine bay.
my engine bay as of a few months ago. while the key lime pie colored foam wasn't my first color choice it does work and closes against the hood which is louvered. the area between the frame rails and radiator is open to outside air from the nose. i have measured a 20 F diff on each side of the partition.. during covid i made an aluminum duct, pretty complicated to better grab the nose air but haven't quite tuned it up to my liking.
note my EFR 9180 replacement, a G40-1150. i am told there are none available til November... it has a 4 inch outlet so i had to pick up a welder and some bends etc. i have it reduced back to 3 inches at the bottom of the DP. yes i probably would gain a smidge w a larger exhaust but i am not into loud exhausts. i will leave a few hp on the table. i also love my exhaust... a Borla #40944 SS straight thru mid and a Racing Beat single rear. WG into DP.
one feature of the G40 that i really like is that BOTH ends of the bearing housing are V banded. because of this i can bolt my manifold to the motor on my engine stand so the nuts can be properly torqued. i can the bolt the hotside housing to the manifold and actually get at all four bolts properly. i then drop the engine in and at some point just add the remaining parts of the turbo and cinch the V band. love it.
note my quarter inch slab of Mica which solves the toasted lower intake runners problem. the picture shows the typical rubber seal between the duct and the IC. that is history and replaced w a silver 360 F tape so the core can see no air other than thru the duct. i have relocated my 1650 CFM Spal fan to the proper position which is as close to the pass side of the core, where the IC is hottest. i added a second smaller Spal fan 550 cfm on the driver's side. my Greddy R BOV is on the driver's side end tank so as to not to disturb flow. the outlet points down so as to vent (hot) charge air out of the engine bay.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 09-06-22 at 01:23 PM.
09-06-22, 01:19 PM
#56
Howard, you will see gains in your data logs if you put on velocity stack on and a larger mounting base filter since you have room.
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...k-pics-865265/
I did that on my old turbo and when I upgraded to EFR 7670 I bought a new 3.5" stack to fit that turbo.
Velocity stacks are SO cheap now!
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...k-pics-865265/
I did that on my old turbo and when I upgraded to EFR 7670 I bought a new 3.5" stack to fit that turbo.
Velocity stacks are SO cheap now!
Last edited by BLUE TII; 09-06-22 at 01:21 PM.
09-06-22, 01:39 PM
#58
Also, is that a stock radiator position with SMIC duct on the IC and that fan?
If so, turn the fan on and put your source of smoke on the engine side of the IC core next to the fan...
I found the fan circulates engine bay air through the IC core with the hood down.
Fan could be inside the duct sealed to duct as pusher or shroud the fan to the IC like a radiator fan.
If so, turn the fan on and put your source of smoke on the engine side of the IC core next to the fan...
I found the fan circulates engine bay air through the IC core with the hood down.
Fan could be inside the duct sealed to duct as pusher or shroud the fan to the IC like a radiator fan.
09-07-22, 11:01 AM
#59
Howard,
Why do you think your outlet temps are so high at 416*?
At 28-30psi making 500-550whp (55-60lbs of air), you should be right in the middle of the 0.77 efficiency island of the efr9180.
DId i read your engine is mildly street ported? Do you think that's becoming a restriction at higher RPM where a higher flowing Bridgeport will lower those AITs?
Blue - what's the dimensions of your intercooler and what's your AITs/power?
Why do you think your outlet temps are so high at 416*?
At 28-30psi making 500-550whp (55-60lbs of air), you should be right in the middle of the 0.77 efficiency island of the efr9180.
DId i read your engine is mildly street ported? Do you think that's becoming a restriction at higher RPM where a higher flowing Bridgeport will lower those AITs?
Blue - what's the dimensions of your intercooler and what's your AITs/power?
Last edited by Billj747; 09-07-22 at 11:09 AM.
09-08-22, 01:35 PM
#60
That was my BLUE TII set-up from 2001. It was OEM type core (tubes with turbulators) from Isuzu NPR cabover truck- the medium core of the 3 sizes available.
I did 13yrs on T04B 60-1 turbo with low boost/low AITs/300ftlbs/380rwhp and went to same size compressor EFR 7670 for a season with high boost/high AITs/420ftlbs/420rwhp.
AIT at cruise was typically 10F over ambient, rose fairly slowly to heatsoak condition parked idling and then cool very quickly.
What I noticed most going to FD and same size core (but SMIC with big duct like Howards pic) is the FD core just never feels cool to the touch after cruising.
I think its because the radiator waste heat always runs over and around the IC end tank on the large SMIC in the FD.
I would like to build a slim end tank SMIC that fits completely within the duct as I preferred the response of my smaller SMIC anyways at the low 300-350rwhp my FD is at.
Im stuck with stock radiator mount position and no cutting or removing of anything on car for ASP race class. Other option to SMIC would be heavier water to air IC (but there is no min weight in class, so lighter is better.)
I did 13yrs on T04B 60-1 turbo with low boost/low AITs/300ftlbs/380rwhp and went to same size compressor EFR 7670 for a season with high boost/high AITs/420ftlbs/420rwhp.
AIT at cruise was typically 10F over ambient, rose fairly slowly to heatsoak condition parked idling and then cool very quickly.
What I noticed most going to FD and same size core (but SMIC with big duct like Howards pic) is the FD core just never feels cool to the touch after cruising.
I think its because the radiator waste heat always runs over and around the IC end tank on the large SMIC in the FD.
I would like to build a slim end tank SMIC that fits completely within the duct as I preferred the response of my smaller SMIC anyways at the low 300-350rwhp my FD is at.
Im stuck with stock radiator mount position and no cutting or removing of anything on car for ASP race class. Other option to SMIC would be heavier water to air IC (but there is no min weight in class, so lighter is better.)
09-08-22, 04:36 PM
#61
Are you able to add ducting for your class? If so, then you could flip the radiator over and V-mount the radiator without cutting or removing anything on the car. I agree with you the SMIC will constantly battle the hot radiator exhaust wash. You could cover the end tanks and SMIC ducting in insulation, which will help, but V-mount will be better if your'e allowed.
What's the dimensions of your Isuzu truck IC?
What's the dimensions of your Isuzu truck IC?
09-08-22, 08:36 PM
#62
In SCCA ASP class one is not allowed to move radiator or use a radiator that enables another function (like a shorter one so IC piping to front mount would fit.
One could do some front mount IC using really thin/wide end tank/IC piping at the side of the radiator or squared and pinched FMIC piping through the SMIC duct opening.
Could do water to air IC and instead of worrying about the extra weight, put that weight where you want it (lots of flexibility in w2a component placement.
The idea of insulating the IC end tanks plus not liking the lazy response from large end tank and long bar/plate Large SMIC is what led me to think about a smaller IC completely inside SMIC duct though.
One could do some front mount IC using really thin/wide end tank/IC piping at the side of the radiator or squared and pinched FMIC piping through the SMIC duct opening.
Could do water to air IC and instead of worrying about the extra weight, put that weight where you want it (lots of flexibility in w2a component placement.
The idea of insulating the IC end tanks plus not liking the lazy response from large end tank and long bar/plate Large SMIC is what led me to think about a smaller IC completely inside SMIC duct though.
09-09-22, 09:55 AM
#64
I'd run the biggest smic you can then and make sure the ducting is air tight and then wrap the end tanks that are exposed to the radiator wash in 1/4" insulation like Heatshield Products Stickyshield
09-09-22, 12:16 PM
#65
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i was doing some tuning the last couple of nights, it looks like my little divider between the filter and radiator actually makes air temps worse
two days ago, without the divider (i forgot it) it was ~30c ambient, intake temps were 36-38c, 6-8c difference
yesterday with the divider, 32c ambient, intake temps were 41c, 9c difference
obviously i need to do a back to back test.
mine is a BlueT2 Jr car, so FC with REW and the biggest IC that will fit in the car without cutting. off the top its 24"x11"x2.75"
two days ago, without the divider (i forgot it) it was ~30c ambient, intake temps were 36-38c, 6-8c difference
yesterday with the divider, 32c ambient, intake temps were 41c, 9c difference
obviously i need to do a back to back test.
mine is a BlueT2 Jr car, so FC with REW and the biggest IC that will fit in the car without cutting. off the top its 24"x11"x2.75"
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